Tlaloc, let's assume that there were some civilian deaths due to use of WP. There is no moral equivalence.

Why not? In *both* cases there is wanton destruction of innocents. So what exactly makes it okay when we do it?

Beyond that though, there doesn't have to be a moral equivalence. I absolutely hold the people who act in my name to a higher standard than anyone else.

Oh please yourself. The pics were refuted some time ago.

White phosphorus is used to mark the location of targets.

Refuted, gee maybe by right wing blogs who also "refute" global warming, evolution, and so on? Has there been a credible party who has refuted them?

As for WP being used to mark targets apparently you missed that the pentagon *admitted* they had used WP as a weapon, after denying the same:

see here

Remember, anjin-san, that the Leftists voted for those expenditures with great alacrity, even unto raising the amounts proposed. So the Left gets terrible marks for fiscal responsibility also.

What I am sure of is that either Obama or Clinton would totally outspend any Republican President or Congress.

Then, too, they would legislate the Leftist agenda into being, which will injure our next generations irreparably. Realism is not the long suit of Leftists.

Instead of reaching for a balanced budget,

You mean like Bush has done for 7 years? What is this, comedy night?

The left continues to believe we have corrupted the world.

Enis,

What utter tripe. No one on the left believes this, except in your imagination. What some on the left do think, is that we should take a harder look at the wrongs we have committed, and perhaps try and work harder at putting our own house in order instead of taking the comic book view of the world which holds that only our enemies commit evil acts.

Instead of strengthening the family, they help to sunder it.
Instead of educating our children they pass out condoms.
Instead of winning a war, they cut and run just as it is making good headway.
Instead of helping unborn babies, they kill them.
Instead of promoting self-reliance they promote dependence on the government.
Instead of keeping government to a reasonable size, they expand it at every turn to meet newly invented needs no one needed in the last 200 years.
Instead of supporting religion, they attack it, especially Christianity, and attempt to make it invisible in the public eye.
Instead of reaching for a balanced budget, they vote for massive new government spending and earmarks.

You get the picture! We will have an enormous cleanup to do after their messes. I just hope none of their stupidities are irreversible.
Don't you?

The incredible thing is the left in America and the Taliban and AQ all have the same enemies.

Just as incredible and just as illuminating (which is to say not at all) the Taliban, AQ, and the American Right share many of the same opinions on social issues (homosexual rights, the place of religion in government, etc) as well as sharing many of the same enemies (Europe, social liberals, etc).

As a moderate liberal, I cringe whenever I read something like Tlaloc's post. It just gives ammunition to those who wish to label any criticism of Bush's handling of the Iraq War as "appeasement", "surrender", "treason", etc.

Oh please yourself. The pics were refuted some time ago.

White phosphorus is used to mark the location of targets.

This insane logic, which is never really substantiated on the US past side of the circle, and is never shown to be our fully vetted religion, fervor, intent or desire (unlike the Islamic jihadists), must be self-hatred of immense proportions, coupled with delusional tendencies.

There is an inability shown here to sort out and weigh correctly the vastly different occurrences of atrocities in the West from the Mid East. There is a vast difference in scale, frequency, malevolent intent, organization, and official blessing between the two sides. Plus, there is an obvious misinformation tactic employed to dress up the West's failings and dress down the Mid East's, i.e. to excuse them.

In my view, what Tlaloc has written puts him in the same category as apologists for Islamic terrorism. Perhaps that is intentional.

Good response,
The left continues to believe we have corrupted the world.
If you can abide by their logic, England, France, and Western Europe would have become the most despotic places in the world to live, post WWII.

What outrages me are the atrocities *we* commit.

Yeah, and if proved to violate our laws, they are punished. Our laws are not enforced to punish people or groups to satisfy your political beliefs.

Indeed, we left a power vacuum.

Yes, goes to Viet Nam, Cambodia, and several places in Africa and the Middle East. The self-loathing of yourself and the US is based upon their political perspective.

And neither Reagan nor Bush nor North nor Brewzinski taught any of them to "kill the infidel".

Do you recall what the communists were doing to the Afghans at the time? Do you recall the history or Soviet meddling in Afghanistan, which was stable from the 30s to the 70s?

Please avail yourself of the internet and learn some history of Soviet interference and the Leninist purges of elites and intellectuals in Afghanistan by the Soviet backed government. Learn about the sovietization, brain drain and property seizures that were the beginning of the end of what was, for 50 years, a stable nation.

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Afghanistan

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Republic_of_Afghanistan

https://www.vedamsbooks.com/no38468.htm

Indeed, we left a power vacuum. And indeed, we trained Taliban friendly mujahadeen. But we didn't give them their ideology. And we didn't teach them how and when to decapitate people.

Helping the Afghan's fight the communists was not our sin. Abandoning them afterwards was.

Let's not do the same in Iraq.

L

So now that you know the US military can and has done far worse you're against the war, right?

Oh, yes Sir!

You have convinced me, using sources that CNN or NBC NEWS would never dare use(Information Clearing House) because they are too reputable has me re-considering every political decision I have ever made.

So, when is George Bush planning the next attack on mainland America?

Tladoc, do you think he has my house targeted tonight? Maybe, I should stay home tonight. The cat does not go out till you send me the all clear sign.

Tlaldoc, you are more of a nut that me. I have always considered myself on the edge, but you have slipped off and into a free fall.