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	<title>Comments on: Activist Judges Overturn Democratic Process Again</title>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-431189</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 17:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>T&#039;was tongue-in-cheek, Russell. You new here?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>T'was tongue-in-cheek, Russell. You new here?</p>
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		<title>By: russell</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-431030</link>
		<dc:creator>russell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 13:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The premise of this post, that the Supreme Court did something improper by overturning a democratic process, is ridiculous. &lt;strong&gt;Any&lt;/strong&gt; time a court overturns &lt;strong&gt;any&lt;/strong&gt; law it is overturning a democratic process since a law does not exist without a democratic process. By this logic a court could &lt;strong&gt;never&lt;/strong&gt; overturn any law, which is obviously silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The premise of this post, that the Supreme Court did something improper by overturning a democratic process, is ridiculous. <strong>Any</strong> time a court overturns <strong>any</strong> law it is overturning a democratic process since a law does not exist without a democratic process. By this logic a court could <strong>never</strong> overturn any law, which is obviously silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Dodd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-430035</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>DC is not a state. Therefore, the issue of incorporation was not before the Court in this case. It will, of course, be a factor in the next round of litigation (possibly starting in Chicago), so the Court will have to address it then.

Is that simple enough?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC is not a state. Therefore, the issue of incorporation was not before the Court in this case. It will, of course, be a factor in the next round of litigation (possibly starting in Chicago), so the Court will have to address it then.</p>
<p>Is that simple enough?</p>
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		<title>By: Billy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429867</link>
		<dc:creator>Billy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Sigh. Will someone get Zeldorf a clue rake...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here you go.&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Sigh. Will someone get Zeldorf a clue rake...</p></blockquote>
<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incorporation_(Bill_of_Rights)" rel="nofollow">Here you go.</a></p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429865</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/#comment-429865</guid>
		<description>Sigh. Will someone get Zeldorf a clue rake...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sigh. Will someone get Zeldorf a clue rake...</p>
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		<title>By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429848</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:24:22 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Sam, what are you smoking.  No state has the right to violate the 4th Amendment or the first.  Why is it they can regulate the 2nd?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sam, what are you smoking.  No state has the right to violate the 4th Amendment or the first.  Why is it they can regulate the 2nd?</p>
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		<title>By: Polimom Says &#187; A more-grounded SCOTUS in Heller</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429831</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom Says &#187; A more-grounded SCOTUS in Heller</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:26:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/#comment-429831</guid>
		<description>[...] Knapp and James Joyner go into the ruling more fully at Outside The Beltway, and the SCOTUSblog has also been [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Knapp and James Joyner go into the ruling more fully at Outside The Beltway, and the SCOTUSblog has also been [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429830</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 18:24:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>For those interested, the incorporation (non) discussion is in footnote 23:

&lt;blockquote&gt;With respect to Cruikshank’s continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the First Amendment did not apply against the States and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required by our later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U. S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Scotusblog sees this as hinting at incorporating the Second Amendment, but the second sentence reads to me like Scalia needed at least one more vote so he offers assurance that the prior decisions, reaffirmed, will not be cast off lightly.  OTOH, Stevens complains in dissent that he does not know whether this decision will increase the labor of federal judges to the &quot;breaking point.&quot;  He seems to be anticipating more judicial activity than just the district of columbia.  Just skimming the tea leaves.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those interested, the incorporation (non) discussion is in footnote 23:</p>
<blockquote><p>With respect to Cruikshank&rsquo;s continuing validity on incorporation, a question not presented by this case, we note that Cruikshank also said that the First Amendment did not apply against the States and did not engage in the sort of Fourteenth Amendment inquiry required by our later cases. Our later decisions in Presser v. Illinois, 116 U. S. 252, 265 (1886) and Miller v. Texas, 153 U. S. 535, 538 (1894), reaffirmed that the Second Amendment applies only to the Federal Government.</p></blockquote>
<p>Scotusblog sees this as hinting at incorporating the Second Amendment, but the second sentence reads to me like Scalia needed at least one more vote so he offers assurance that the prior decisions, reaffirmed, will not be cast off lightly.  OTOH, Stevens complains in dissent that he does not know whether this decision will increase the labor of federal judges to the "breaking point."  He seems to be anticipating more judicial activity than just the district of columbia.  Just skimming the tea leaves.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Knapp</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429816</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Knapp</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dodd,

That&#039;s pretty much exactly why I think labels for jurisprudence are pretty meaningless.  I am also not particularly fond of Stevens, though I think he writes some decent opinions.  I think that this opinion was Scalia at his best, reminscient of his early opinions, and a Scalia we really haven&#039;t see in awhile (his dissent in Bourdemine was just embarrassing).  Alas, Scalia and Stevens both frequently fall on the &quot;result first, justify later&quot; jurisprudential scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dodd,</p>
<p>That's pretty much exactly why I think labels for jurisprudence are pretty meaningless.  I am also not particularly fond of Stevens, though I think he writes some decent opinions.  I think that this opinion was Scalia at his best, reminscient of his early opinions, and a Scalia we really haven't see in awhile (his dissent in Bourdemine was just embarrassing).  Alas, Scalia and Stevens both frequently fall on the "result first, justify later" jurisprudential scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Fence</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429815</link>
		<dc:creator>Fence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Thanks PD Shaw for the info.  If you are right, this decision is one of narrow implication, only for DC and for federal gun restrictions.  Seems like the story line in that case should be more about DC&#039;s lack of states&#039; rights, and not about other states&#039; gun laws.  My hunch is the media will cover it in such a way that most people will think this decision prohibits other states from passing similar laws.

But I suppose the decision, if focuses more on the &quot;right of the people&quot; than the militia part, may lay the groundwork for a later court to incorporate gun ownership as a fundamental right under the 14th Amendment.  It would certainly be nice to put Scalia&#039;s originalist faith to the test on that one.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks PD Shaw for the info.  If you are right, this decision is one of narrow implication, only for DC and for federal gun restrictions.  Seems like the story line in that case should be more about DC's lack of states' rights, and not about other states' gun laws.  My hunch is the media will cover it in such a way that most people will think this decision prohibits other states from passing similar laws.</p>
<p>But I suppose the decision, if focuses more on the "right of the people" than the militia part, may lay the groundwork for a later court to incorporate gun ownership as a fundamental right under the 14th Amendment.  It would certainly be nice to put Scalia's originalist faith to the test on that one.</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429812</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:28:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Also sprache Zeldorf:

&lt;blockquote&gt;First, States have no power over constitutional rights.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Uh, wrong. Absent a ruling of incorporation under the 14th Amendment, rights enumerated (or not) in the Bill of Rights are protected from infringement by the &lt;em&gt;federal&lt;/em&gt; government. As P.D. Shaw said above, the &lt;em&gt;Heller&lt;/em&gt; opinion did not incorporate the 2d Amendment against the states.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also sprache Zeldorf:</p>
<blockquote><p>First, States have no power over constitutional rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>Uh, wrong. Absent a ruling of incorporation under the 14th Amendment, rights enumerated (or not) in the Bill of Rights are protected from infringement by the <em>federal</em> government. As P.D. Shaw said above, the <em>Heller</em> opinion did not incorporate the 2d Amendment against the states.</p>
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		<title>By: Dodd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429800</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:11:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/#comment-429800</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Justice Stevens suggested that Scalia et al. were not true conservatives in his dissent&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Justice Stevens, who has proven time and again that he is utterly shameless about contorting plain language out of all semblance of rational shape to suit his personal preferences, demonstrates in his dissent precisely why interpreting a right that expressly refers to &quot;the People&quot; as actually meaning &quot;the State&quot; is so dangerous. He purports to support his argument that the Second Amendment confers a &#039;collective&#039; right by arguing that the First Amendment rights to assembly and petition for redress of grievances are &#039;collective&#039; in nature rather than strictly individual rights. 

Thus does a slipperly slope that ends with us having no rights at all begin. If standing athwart history yelling &quot;Stop!&quot; to such as that isn&#039;t &quot;conservative,&quot; well, so be it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Justice Stevens suggested that Scalia et al. were not true conservatives in his dissent</p></blockquote>
<p>Justice Stevens, who has proven time and again that he is utterly shameless about contorting plain language out of all semblance of rational shape to suit his personal preferences, demonstrates in his dissent precisely why interpreting a right that expressly refers to "the People" as actually meaning "the State" is so dangerous. He purports to support his argument that the Second Amendment confers a 'collective' right by arguing that the First Amendment rights to assembly and petition for redress of grievances are 'collective' in nature rather than strictly individual rights. </p>
<p>Thus does a slipperly slope that ends with us having no rights at all begin. If standing athwart history yelling "Stop!" to such as that isn't "conservative," well, so be it.</p>
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		<title>By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429796</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 17:00:44 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>First, States have no power over constitutional rights.  I think the reason the first 10 amendments are called the bill of rights is because that is what they are.  While no right is absolute, the framers did add, &quot;shall not be infringed&quot; to only one right.  As to activist judges.  Activist Judges find law where none what written, ie, abortion rights in the 14th amendment.  To the even semi-intelligent scholar a read of the 2nd amendment &quot;A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state (regulated meant at that time the ability to load and fire at a rate equal to military standards)THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE (US) TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED&quot; would lead one to believe Americans have the absolute right (with very specific small limitations) to keep firearms useful to defend the other rights of the people.  If the 2nd amendment were about anything else, the right to vote or drive a car, the definition would be clear by the last four words.  The justices have done only half the job.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>First, States have no power over constitutional rights.  I think the reason the first 10 amendments are called the bill of rights is because that is what they are.  While no right is absolute, the framers did add, "shall not be infringed" to only one right.  As to activist judges.  Activist Judges find law where none what written, ie, abortion rights in the 14th amendment.  To the even semi-intelligent scholar a read of the 2nd amendment "A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free state (regulated meant at that time the ability to load and fire at a rate equal to military standards)THE RIGHT OF THE PEOPLE (US) TO KEEP AND BEAR ARMS SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" would lead one to believe Americans have the absolute right (with very specific small limitations) to keep firearms useful to defend the other rights of the people.  If the 2nd amendment were about anything else, the right to vote or drive a car, the definition would be clear by the last four words.  The justices have done only half the job.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429734</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 16:17:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Joe, the Second Amendment restricts the federal government (including the District of Columbia), not states.  So technically there are no state&#039;s rights issues.  So long as a State&#039;s Constitution allows it, a state could pass a gun ban that the SCOTUS just ruled that DC could not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joe, the Second Amendment restricts the federal government (including the District of Columbia), not states.  So technically there are no state's rights issues.  So long as a State's Constitution allows it, a state could pass a gun ban that the SCOTUS just ruled that DC could not.</p>
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		<title>By: joe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/activist-judges-overturn-democratic-process-again/comment-page-1/#comment-429672</link>
		<dc:creator>joe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 15:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Decisions such as this are funny, because as the author states, the &quot;conservative&quot; justices over rule the ruling of a state government, going against states rights principles.  There also seems to be a serious disconnect between cities which have massive crime problems and more suburban and rural areas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Decisions such as this are funny, because as the author states, the "conservative" justices over rule the ruling of a state government, going against states rights principles.  There also seems to be a serious disconnect between cities which have massive crime problems and more suburban and rural areas.</p>
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