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	<title>Comments on: Advil Strip Search Illegal, Says Supreme Court</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 01:11:02 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Religious Magnet</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1092535</link>
		<dc:creator>Religious Magnet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Jul 2009 00:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1092535</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Religious Magnet...&lt;/strong&gt;

Pain Free with Magnets - Click on link to learn more....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Religious Magnet...</strong></p>
<p>Pain Free with Magnets - Click on link to learn more....</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1074441</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 17:53:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1074441</guid>
		<description>&quot;Because the incident in question occurred in Arizona, and I assume that there wasn&#039;t as clear a definition of what was and wasn&#039;t okay as California&#039;s.&quot;

Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Because the incident in question occurred in Arizona, and I assume that there wasn't as clear a definition of what was and wasn't okay as California's."</p>
<p>Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1074190</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 13:36:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1074190</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;
If this is California law, how did the courts decide against the family until the case reached the SCOTUS.&lt;/em&gt;

Because the incident in question occurred in Arizona, and I assume that there wasn&#039;t as clear a definition of what was and wasn&#039;t okay as California&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em><br />
If this is California law, how did the courts decide against the family until the case reached the SCOTUS.</em></p>
<p>Because the incident in question occurred in Arizona, and I assume that there wasn't as clear a definition of what was and wasn't okay as California's.</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1074151</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 12:35:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1074151</guid>
		<description>&quot;No school employee shall conduct a search that involves:
(a) Conducting a body cavity search of a pupil manually or with an instrument.
(b) Removing or arranging any or all of the clothing of a pupil to permit a visual inspection of the underclothing, breast, buttocks, or genitalia of the pupil.&quot;

If this is California law, how did the courts decide against the family until the case reached the SCOTUS.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"No school employee shall conduct a search that involves:<br />
(a) Conducting a body cavity search of a pupil manually or with an instrument.<br />
(b) Removing or arranging any or all of the clothing of a pupil to permit a visual inspection of the underclothing, breast, buttocks, or genitalia of the pupil."</p>
<p>If this is California law, how did the courts decide against the family until the case reached the SCOTUS.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073467</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 00:18:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073467</guid>
		<description>My previous comment (at 02:43 pm), should stand corrected.  There is a third issue, which is whether the school district (as opposed to any individuals) are liable for damage.  As I follow the discussion at Volokh, I guess the answer is: who knows?

(Have I mentioned how I hate rules of financial responsibility based upon emerging, unpredictable principles?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My previous comment (at 02:43 pm), should stand corrected.  There is a third issue, which is whether the school district (as opposed to any individuals) are liable for damage.  As I follow the discussion at Volokh, I guess the answer is: who knows?</p>
<p>(Have I mentioned how I hate rules of financial responsibility based upon emerging, unpredictable principles?)</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073387</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 22:01:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073387</guid>
		<description>PD I actually agree with you that the best place to detail what is and isn&#039;t acceptable for school officials when searching for drugs or weapons is best handled in the legislature.  If the legislature says it isn&#039;t okay and defines the parameters of when, where, and how far a search can be conducted, then constitutionality doesn&#039;t matter-the actual law does, which is the best place to make sure teenage girls are protected from having their panties searched.

That said, I aboslutely agree with the opinion that advil is not a good reason to look through panties, although I am not convinced any drug is a good reason to search under a person&#039;s clothes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>PD I actually agree with you that the best place to detail what is and isn't acceptable for school officials when searching for drugs or weapons is best handled in the legislature.  If the legislature says it isn't okay and defines the parameters of when, where, and how far a search can be conducted, then constitutionality doesn't matter-the actual law does, which is the best place to make sure teenage girls are protected from having their panties searched.</p>
<p>That said, I aboslutely agree with the opinion that advil is not a good reason to look through panties, although I am not convinced any drug is a good reason to search under a person's clothes.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073304</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 21:17:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073304</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And I&#039;m skeptical of the claim about private vs. public. Seriously, if I called the cops because the principal at a private school strip searched my child....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Steve, you seem to think a crime has been committed.  It is not a crime for a doctor, a school administrator, a p.e. teacher or a parent to order a child to strip unless there is evidence of some sort of lascivious intent.  The SCOTUS in this case said there was no doubt in the record that the school administrators were motivated solely to protect students from drugs and getting sick.

The only reason this was in the courts is that public schools are state actors and thus subject to notions of limited government.  That means that a Catholic school can ban t-shirts that promote drugs and spanks students, without wondering about the application of the First and Eighth Amendments, or litigation from them.

I just find the outrage to be largely misdirected into the court system unless people believe it&#039;s no problem for private schools to do this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I'm skeptical of the claim about private vs. public. Seriously, if I called the cops because the principal at a private school strip searched my child....</p></blockquote>
<p>Steve, you seem to think a crime has been committed.  It is not a crime for a doctor, a school administrator, a p.e. teacher or a parent to order a child to strip unless there is evidence of some sort of lascivious intent.  The SCOTUS in this case said there was no doubt in the record that the school administrators were motivated solely to protect students from drugs and getting sick.</p>
<p>The only reason this was in the courts is that public schools are state actors and thus subject to notions of limited government.  That means that a Catholic school can ban t-shirts that promote drugs and spanks students, without wondering about the application of the First and Eighth Amendments, or litigation from them.</p>
<p>I just find the outrage to be largely misdirected into the court system unless people believe it's no problem for private schools to do this.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073241</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:59:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073241</guid>
		<description>I was most pleased when the school principal called in the cops because my six year old grandson had a small plastic table knife in his lunch box to cut his sausage for lunch. They allow these people to vote also which explains a lot about today&#039;s government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was most pleased when the school principal called in the cops because my six year old grandson had a small plastic table knife in his lunch box to cut his sausage for lunch. They allow these people to vote also which explains a lot about today's government.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073239</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:59:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073239</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Parents are known to overreact to protect their children from danger, and a school official with responsibility for safety may tend to do the same. The difference is that the Fourth Amendment places limits on the official...&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Sure didn&#039;t work in this case.  

And I&#039;m skeptical of the claim about private vs. public.  Seriously, if I called the cops because the principal at a private school strip searched my child including viewing his unclothed pelvic area the response would be:  switch schools or get the policies changed?  I&#039;m thinking that is the least likely response.

Here&#039;s a serious non-snide question:

1.  How frequent are strip searches at public schools.
2.  How frequent are strip searches at private schools.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Parents are known to overreact to protect their children from danger, and a school official with responsibility for safety may tend to do the same. The difference is that the Fourth Amendment places limits on the official...</p></blockquote>
<p>Sure didn't work in this case.  </p>
<p>And I'm skeptical of the claim about private vs. public.  Seriously, if I called the cops because the principal at a private school strip searched my child including viewing his unclothed pelvic area the response would be:  switch schools or get the policies changed?  I'm thinking that is the least likely response.</p>
<p>Here's a serious non-snide question:</p>
<p>1.  How frequent are strip searches at public schools.<br />
2.  How frequent are strip searches at private schools.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073236</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:56:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073236</guid>
		<description>Last time this came up, I pointed out this is California law:

&lt;blockquote&gt;No school employee shall conduct a search that involves:
(a) Conducting a body cavity search of a pupil manually or with an instrument.
(b) Removing or arranging any or all of the clothing of a pupil to permit a visual inspection of the underclothing, breast, buttocks, or genitalia of the pupil.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Again, I ask, is that so hard to write?

What&#039;s nice about such a law is that the school can&#039;t be sued for failing to do these things when a student gets injured.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Last time this came up, I pointed out this is California law:</p>
<blockquote><p>No school employee shall conduct a search that involves:<br />
(a) Conducting a body cavity search of a pupil manually or with an instrument.<br />
(b) Removing or arranging any or all of the clothing of a pupil to permit a visual inspection of the underclothing, breast, buttocks, or genitalia of the pupil.</p></blockquote>
<p>Again, I ask, is that so hard to write?</p>
<p>What's nice about such a law is that the school can't be sued for failing to do these things when a student gets injured.</p>
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		<title>By: An Interested Party</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073233</link>
		<dc:creator>An Interested Party</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073233</guid>
		<description>I am still amazed that anyone actually thinks that strip searches of school children is reasonable...do drugs frighten some people that much...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still amazed that anyone actually thinks that strip searches of school children is reasonable...do drugs frighten some people that much...</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073217</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:38:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073217</guid>
		<description>I am still amazed that the father did not take a baseball bat to the school officials in question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am still amazed that the father did not take a baseball bat to the school officials in question.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073165</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073165</guid>
		<description>Steve, maybe I didn&#039;t communicate my point.  There are more protections against strip searches today in public schools than private schools.

If this had happened in a typical private school, the parents would have the choice of changing schools or lobbying for better policies.  In public schools they have the same options, plus they can seek judicial intervention under the Constitution.

From the opinion:

&lt;blockquote&gt;Parents are known to overreact to protect their children from danger, and a school official with responsibility for safety may tend to do the same. The difference is that the Fourth Amendment places limits on the official...&lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, maybe I didn't communicate my point.  There are more protections against strip searches today in public schools than private schools.</p>
<p>If this had happened in a typical private school, the parents would have the choice of changing schools or lobbying for better policies.  In public schools they have the same options, plus they can seek judicial intervention under the Constitution.</p>
<p>From the opinion:</p>
<blockquote><p>Parents are known to overreact to protect their children from danger, and a school official with responsibility for safety may tend to do the same. The difference is that the Fourth Amendment places limits on the official...</p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073146</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:11:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073146</guid>
		<description>Good point PD.

Revised Memo to Perverts:  Become a &lt;em&gt;&lt;strong&gt;PUBLIC&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/em&gt; school official so you can rummage through children&#039;s underwear all you want.

And people might think I&#039;m being sarcastic...well I am, but and this is a huge but...the school&#039;s attorney actually argued there is no legal barrier to doing body cavity searches.

Enroll your child in public school and you give permission for a school official to insert a gloved finger into his or her anus, and her vagina.  I think that for most parent&#039;s here the response, and it is a proper response IMO, would be to tear the head off any such school official who did such a thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good point PD.</p>
<p>Revised Memo to Perverts:  Become a <em><strong>PUBLIC</strong></em> school official so you can rummage through children's underwear all you want.</p>
<p>And people might think I'm being sarcastic...well I am, but and this is a huge but...the school's attorney actually argued there is no legal barrier to doing body cavity searches.</p>
<p>Enroll your child in public school and you give permission for a school official to insert a gloved finger into his or her anus, and her vagina.  I think that for most parent's here the response, and it is a proper response IMO, would be to tear the head off any such school official who did such a thing.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/advil_strip_search_illegal_says_supreme_court/comment-page-1/#comment-1073136</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Jun 2009 19:04:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=38446#comment-1073136</guid>
		<description>Steve Verdon, even if the court had ruled that a school may never conduct a strip search, it would have had no bearing on non-governmental actors like private schools, religious organizations, scouting associations, etc.

That raises a huge flag to me about the limitations of having courts decide these issues on constitutional grounds.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve Verdon, even if the court had ruled that a school may never conduct a strip search, it would have had no bearing on non-governmental actors like private schools, religious organizations, scouting associations, etc.</p>
<p>That raises a huge flag to me about the limitations of having courts decide these issues on constitutional grounds.</p>
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