So you think comparing the US to other countries isn't a legitimate response to an article...comparing the US to other countries, Brian?

I don't have a problem with comparisons, so as long as they are instructive and topical. Retorting that the US is good because China is bad, is illogical. And comments on the conditions of Chinese prisons says nothing about the rates of incarceration in the US and abroad, which is what the post is about.

Crooks and Liars

at-Largely: John Ashcroft claims Japanese waterboarding is different from American waterboarding.
Comments from Left Field: Attention Men! Stay out of the Congo
Outside The Beltway: Land of the free …uh, imprisoned
Hello, Negr...

What an odd position to take.

How many of these "kinder" nations allow such punishments as caning? Dismemberment? Other forms of torture instead of incarceration? In China, the article notes with blind dismissal, many are placed in "administrative detention" which is a nice way of saying forced labor or slavery.

First, I don't think that there was any mention that nations who have lower rates of incarceration equals "kinder" per se.

Second, your list of nations with horrible human rights records and their reprehensible practices isn't really the point.

And when will people realize that moral relativism and defensive attitudes don't actually solve anything. We know China is horrible. Just because we are better does not mean that we are perfect and are not subject to scrutiny.

The point Alex is making that our prison practices are less than desirable. More to the point, they do nothing to reduce or prevent crime. Period. Crime rates have lessened for a handful of reasons, but other important criminal statistics have worsened or remain unchanged. Like recidivism. Treatment of prisoners have improved, but we still haven't solved for the prison problem as a whole or extensively developed any viable alternatives.

Or to put it another way: Europeans provide long-term unemployment: we throw people in jail and provide essentially the same thing in goods and services for prisoners, plus make-work keeping them incarcerated.

A great example of how ideology clouds the brain. What would happen to the relative unemployment rates of the US and EU if you were to reduce our incarceration rate to theirs?

However, I disagree that there is a better alternative to violent offenders I do think prison is over used for non violent offenders, and I think some sentences are ridiculously long.

Let us know when you are sure. Are you, like famous NY Times reporter Fox Butterfield, also shocked that crime rates have fallen?

I have been well aware of declining crime rates for over a decade, now, thanks. But correlation isn't necessary causation--as the article points out, Canada experienced the same decline in violent crime without increasing its incarceration rate.

And just because I can't think of a better alternative to prison doesn't mean there isn't one. Prisons are brutal, dehumanizing, disgusting places. I would like to think that there's a better way to handle violent offenders. However, I am cynical enough to expect that I may well be wrong about that.

... I will readily admit that for violent offenders I am not sure that there is a better alternative to prison...

Let us know when you are sure. Are you, like famous NY Times reporter Fox Butterfield, also shocked that crime rates have fallen?

The libbies are more prone to crime than the rest of the population--all you have to do is look at the presidential race. The liberalist candidate is also the one who has admitted to committing a possible felony.