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	<title>Comments on: American PhDs Can&#8217;t Call Selves &#8216;Doktor&#8217; in Germany</title>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-301152</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 21:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-301152</guid>
		<description>Joyner, your simple guideline for use is right on the money.  Honorifics should be used in context.  When I was at university it was commonplace to say I had just been visiting Dr. Smith.  But I&#039;m sure Dr. Smith didn&#039;t sign in as &quot;Dr. Smith&quot; at the starter&#039;s booth down at the country club.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Joyner, your simple guideline for use is right on the money.  Honorifics should be used in context.  When I was at university it was commonplace to say I had just been visiting Dr. Smith.  But I'm sure Dr. Smith didn't sign in as "Dr. Smith" at the starter's booth down at the country club.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-301086</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 20:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-301086</guid>
		<description>Biggs,

Of course the difference was I was hiring in the market place for people to produce things in sufficient quantity and quality that the company would make more money than the salary. If I hired because of a degree and not capability, both of us would likely be gone. In academia, it is the reverse that hiring for capability over the degree would likely cause both to be gone.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Biggs,</p>
<p>Of course the difference was I was hiring in the market place for people to produce things in sufficient quantity and quality that the company would make more money than the salary. If I hired because of a degree and not capability, both of us would likely be gone. In academia, it is the reverse that hiring for capability over the degree would likely cause both to be gone.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-301047</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-301047</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Cowen, James…Cowen.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Fixed. My brain knows his name, but my fingers are decidedly more familiar with &quot;Cohen.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Cowen, James…Cowen.</p></blockquote>
<p>Fixed. My brain knows his name, but my fingers are decidedly more familiar with "Cohen."</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-301028</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-301028</guid>
		<description>Cowen, James...Cowen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cowen, James...Cowen.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-301022</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 19:01:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-301022</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;On one hand, I find that people who aren’t medical doctors who refer to themselves as “Dr. So And So” are about to tell you a whopping great lie, perhaps as part of a scam or sales pitch. On the other hand, I am equally annoyed by medical doctors who run for elected offices and campaign as “Dr. Blah Blah”. Both uses are pretentious.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The title &quot;Doctor&quot; comes from the Latin for &quot;teacher.&quot; It was used for roughly half a millennium by learned academics before it was adopted by physicians who were, at that point in history, relative amateurs.

I used the title &quot;Dr.&quot; when I taught college to differentiate myself from the students and used it as a defense contractor where everyone else had a title before their name.  I don&#039;t use it in the think tank world because it&#039;s simply not customary, likely because pretty much everyone has a PhD or comparable expertise in the policy world.  (I do have the degree suffix PhD on my business card but that&#039;s pretty standard.) 

I agree that it&#039;s pretentious to use it out of context of one&#039;s expertise.  Otherwise, though, it&#039;s a hard-earned honorific.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>On one hand, I find that people who aren&rsquo;t medical doctors who refer to themselves as “Dr. So And So” are about to tell you a whopping great lie, perhaps as part of a scam or sales pitch. On the other hand, I am equally annoyed by medical doctors who run for elected offices and campaign as “Dr. Blah Blah”. Both uses are pretentious.</p></blockquote>
<p>The title "Doctor" comes from the Latin for "teacher." It was used for roughly half a millennium by learned academics before it was adopted by physicians who were, at that point in history, relative amateurs.</p>
<p>I used the title "Dr." when I taught college to differentiate myself from the students and used it as a defense contractor where everyone else had a title before their name.  I don't use it in the think tank world because it's simply not customary, likely because pretty much everyone has a PhD or comparable expertise in the policy world.  (I do have the degree suffix PhD on my business card but that's pretty standard.) </p>
<p>I agree that it's pretentious to use it out of context of one's expertise.  Otherwise, though, it's a hard-earned honorific.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300998</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 18:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300998</guid>
		<description>On one hand, I find that people who aren&#039;t medical doctors who refer to themselves as &quot;Dr. So And So&quot; are about to tell you a whopping great lie, perhaps as part of a scam or sales pitch.  On the other hand, I am equally annoyed by medical doctors who run for elected offices and campaign as &quot;Dr. Blah Blah&quot;.  Both uses are pretentious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On one hand, I find that people who aren't medical doctors who refer to themselves as "Dr. So And So" are about to tell you a whopping great lie, perhaps as part of a scam or sales pitch.  On the other hand, I am equally annoyed by medical doctors who run for elected offices and campaign as "Dr. Blah Blah".  Both uses are pretentious.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300950</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 16:43:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300950</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;he’d never get hired with just a MS, even though he had 30+ years of experience designing and building water and wastewater conveyance and treatment systems&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The insistence on a PhD for the vocational-technical departments of the university always struck me as silly.  It probably makes sense in a graduate program, if the desire is to teach cutting edge critical theory, but not in a basic undergraduate program.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>he&rsquo;d never get hired with just a MS, even though he had 30+ years of experience designing and building water and wastewater conveyance and treatment systems</p></blockquote>
<p>The insistence on a PhD for the vocational-technical departments of the university always struck me as silly.  It probably makes sense in a graduate program, if the desire is to teach cutting edge critical theory, but not in a basic undergraduate program.</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Biggs</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300916</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Biggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300916</guid>
		<description>You reminded me of a story that cracks me up, where I went to engineering school one of the professors joked that with the school&#039;s focus on hiring PhDs to improve stats he&#039;d never get hired with just a MS, even though he had 30+ years of experience designing and building water and wastewater conveyance and treatment systems.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You reminded me of a story that cracks me up, where I went to engineering school one of the professors joked that with the school's focus on hiring PhDs to improve stats he'd never get hired with just a MS, even though he had 30+ years of experience designing and building water and wastewater conveyance and treatment systems.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300912</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 15:19:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300912</guid>
		<description>On the other hand, I have interviewed people for positions with degrees from foreign countries. I had absolutely no internal judgment on the quality of education that I could expect given the grade point they presented. I almost shudder to think what it would have taken to verify the GPA and degree. Fortunately, these were not entry level positions, so I had about ten years of work history to base the hiring decision on (and quite frankly after ten years of work history the degree is just a check box to keep the HR department from hassling me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On the other hand, I have interviewed people for positions with degrees from foreign countries. I had absolutely no internal judgment on the quality of education that I could expect given the grade point they presented. I almost shudder to think what it would have taken to verify the GPA and degree. Fortunately, these were not entry level positions, so I had about ten years of work history to base the hiring decision on (and quite frankly after ten years of work history the degree is just a check box to keep the HR department from hassling me).</p>
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		<title>By: Mister Biggs</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300893</link>
		<dc:creator>Mister Biggs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 14:51:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300893</guid>
		<description>When I was last over in Austria, I met a guy who was from Ventura and had his BA and MA from UCLA.  He was working in Bavaria teaching English at a university in Nuremberg, when it came to getting paid he was classified as a tutor, because the wouldn&#039;t recognize his degrees to make him a adjunct or assistant professor.  He explained it mostly had to do with Bavarians having a very high opinion of themselves, cited the example that if you went to law school in Germany, but outside of Bavaria and wanted to practice law in Bavaria, you&#039;d have to do another year of law school at a Bavarian University.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I was last over in Austria, I met a guy who was from Ventura and had his BA and MA from UCLA.  He was working in Bavaria teaching English at a university in Nuremberg, when it came to getting paid he was classified as a tutor, because the wouldn't recognize his degrees to make him a adjunct or assistant professor.  He explained it mostly had to do with Bavarians having a very high opinion of themselves, cited the example that if you went to law school in Germany, but outside of Bavaria and wanted to practice law in Bavaria, you'd have to do another year of law school at a Bavarian University.</p>
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		<title>By: Polimom Says &#187; Friday tidbits</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/comment-page-1/#comment-300841</link>
		<dc:creator>Polimom Says &#187; Friday tidbits</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 13:23:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/american_phds_cant_call_selves_doktor_in_germany/#comment-300841</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner finds (via WaPo) an odd German ban on the use of the honorific &#8220;Doctor&#8221;. From the article: Under a little-known Nazi-era law, only people who earn PhDs or medical degrees in Germany are allowed to use “Dr.” as a courtesy title. The law was modified in 2001 to extend the privilege to degree-holders from any country in the European Union. But docs from the United States and anywhere else outside Europe are still forbidden to use the honorific. Violators can face a year behind bars. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner finds (via WaPo) an odd German ban on the use of the honorific &#8220;Doctor&#8221;. From the article: Under a little-known Nazi-era law, only people who earn PhDs or medical degrees in Germany are allowed to use “Dr.” as a courtesy title. The law was modified in 2001 to extend the privilege to degree-holders from any country in the European Union. But docs from the United States and anywhere else outside Europe are still forbidden to use the honorific. Violators can face a year behind bars. [...]</p>
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