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	<title>Comments on: Another Ship Seized (Updated)</title>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526746</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 02:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It turns out that the Hellfire missile has a range of 5 miles or 26,500 feet for a horizontal launch, before motor burnout. There is no open information I can find on whether the missile can be launched at very high altitudes, such as 50,000 feet, at a small target, and using ballistic freefall, either before motor turnon, or after burnout. Either is possible, but probably requires some development.

There is no open information on the target acquisition capability of the Hellfire guidance system at 50,000 feet either, or reacquisition after a drop to lower altitude.  

So, either Hellfire is not the right choice at all, or the Reaper would have to descend to a slant range of about, say, 5 miles or less to the target in order to launch. This requires Reaper to come down from its 50,000 ft Hunter mode to about 20,000 ft or so in perhaps 10 minutes or less. This is a reasonable Killer mode of operation. 

Thus, to maintain continuous coverage of the area from 50-60 thousand feet and allow for one Killer mode at a time would require a least two Reapers at a time to be covering the wide area. 

The alternative is simply to allow for one engagement at a time. (That is, unless a more suitable inexpensive missile or JADAM can be found for launch at altitude.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It turns out that the Hellfire missile has a range of 5 miles or 26,500 feet for a horizontal launch, before motor burnout. There is no open information I can find on whether the missile can be launched at very high altitudes, such as 50,000 feet, at a small target, and using ballistic freefall, either before motor turnon, or after burnout. Either is possible, but probably requires some development.</p>
<p>There is no open information on the target acquisition capability of the Hellfire guidance system at 50,000 feet either, or reacquisition after a drop to lower altitude.  </p>
<p>So, either Hellfire is not the right choice at all, or the Reaper would have to descend to a slant range of about, say, 5 miles or less to the target in order to launch. This requires Reaper to come down from its 50,000 ft Hunter mode to about 20,000 ft or so in perhaps 10 minutes or less. This is a reasonable Killer mode of operation. </p>
<p>Thus, to maintain continuous coverage of the area from 50-60 thousand feet and allow for one Killer mode at a time would require a least two Reapers at a time to be covering the wide area. </p>
<p>The alternative is simply to allow for one engagement at a time. (That is, unless a more suitable inexpensive missile or JADAM can be found for launch at altitude.)</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526736</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 01:56:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=27610#comment-526736</guid>
		<description>A blog that has been covering piracy issues for quite a while is &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.eaglespeak.us&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Eagle Speak&lt;/a&gt;. He is a retired US Navy Surface Warfare Captain (Reserve) who is also an attorney.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A blog that has been covering piracy issues for quite a while is <a href="http://www.eaglespeak.us" rel="nofollow">Eagle Speak</a>. He is a retired US Navy Surface Warfare Captain (Reserve) who is also an attorney.</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526617</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:44:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;d love it if we had available a hunter/killer version of the Global Hawk, but the Reaper is currently configured properly for H/K missions.
Were it to be based in Kuwait, for instance, its endurance and payload would be enhanced for the Indian Ocean H/K mission against pirates. 

This solution is only a partial one. There would still be the need to arm the ships and to staff them with trained men.

There would be a few command and control issues to solve, and target ID issues as well, but these have well-known solutions, including IFF capabilities ported aboard the ships to prevent attacks on innocent vessels. The few trained men aboard that would man the weapons on ships could be vested with the IFF code of the day as well, in addition to a laser designator for a wide variety of weapons.

International cooperation would be essential, I believe, particularly if the costs of such an approach were to be shared between the many users of the Indian Ocean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'd love it if we had available a hunter/killer version of the Global Hawk, but the Reaper is currently configured properly for H/K missions.<br />
Were it to be based in Kuwait, for instance, its endurance and payload would be enhanced for the Indian Ocean H/K mission against pirates. </p>
<p>This solution is only a partial one. There would still be the need to arm the ships and to staff them with trained men.</p>
<p>There would be a few command and control issues to solve, and target ID issues as well, but these have well-known solutions, including IFF capabilities ported aboard the ships to prevent attacks on innocent vessels. The few trained men aboard that would man the weapons on ships could be vested with the IFF code of the day as well, in addition to a laser designator for a wide variety of weapons.</p>
<p>International cooperation would be essential, I believe, particularly if the costs of such an approach were to be shared between the many users of the Indian Ocean.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526609</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 21:09:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Is this a US problem?
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
It&#039;s my understanding that the Saudi tanker that was hijacked was bound for the United States.  Sounds like a U. S. interest to me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Is this a US problem?
</p></blockquote>
<p>It's my understanding that the Saudi tanker that was hijacked was bound for the United States.  Sounds like a U. S. interest to me.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526599</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 20:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=27610#comment-526599</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Is this a US problem?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Definitely. Freedom of passage high seas and in coastal waters is in everyones best interest. Our navy can help to ensure unfettered commerce and to build better relationships with some folks we have had problems with. This is a opportunity for a win/win. 

The US Navy protecting Iranian live and commerce? HUGE public relations win.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Is this a US problem?</p></blockquote>
<p>Definitely. Freedom of passage high seas and in coastal waters is in everyones best interest. Our navy can help to ensure unfettered commerce and to build better relationships with some folks we have had problems with. This is a opportunity for a win/win. </p>
<p>The US Navy protecting Iranian live and commerce? HUGE public relations win.</p>
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		<title>By: C-Red</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526585</link>
		<dc:creator>C-Red</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:23:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is this a US problem? I don&#039;t really have a problem with some support ships and some smaller vessels, but the US Navy has a fair amount on it&#039;s plate already. random patrolling doesn&#039;t seem like it would be that effective anyway. 

It seems to me security guards and/or soldiers on the ships themselves and strikes on pirate bases would be more effective. They may not be able to track the small boats the pirates are using, but they should be able to track where they take a supertanker to ransom it off.

If more ships are needed in the region shouldn&#039;t they be supplied primarily by the locals; the Egyptians, the Saudis, the Ethiopians and the other gulf states and states on the east coast of Africa?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is this a US problem? I don't really have a problem with some support ships and some smaller vessels, but the US Navy has a fair amount on it's plate already. random patrolling doesn't seem like it would be that effective anyway. </p>
<p>It seems to me security guards and/or soldiers on the ships themselves and strikes on pirate bases would be more effective. They may not be able to track the small boats the pirates are using, but they should be able to track where they take a supertanker to ransom it off.</p>
<p>If more ships are needed in the region shouldn't they be supplied primarily by the locals; the Egyptians, the Saudis, the Ethiopians and the other gulf states and states on the east coast of Africa?</p>
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		<title>By: mannning</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526582</link>
		<dc:creator>mannning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:15:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Even China should be interested in ensuring its shipments from the ME oilfields to China through the Indian Ocean by increased capability to search, find, track, and even destroy pirate ships. 
(See my previous posts here on using Global Hawk in a new role.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even China should be interested in ensuring its shipments from the ME oilfields to China through the Indian Ocean by increased capability to search, find, track, and even destroy pirate ships.<br />
(See my previous posts here on using Global Hawk in a new role.)</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526581</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 19:14:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=27610#comment-526581</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
we have a common interest with Iran in having free &amp; safe shipping lanes in that part of the world
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
A point I&#039;ve been making for some time.  Additionally, we have a greater capacity for doing something about it than they do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
we have a common interest with Iran in having free &#038; safe shipping lanes in that part of the world
</p></blockquote>
<p>A point I've been making for some time.  Additionally, we have a greater capacity for doing something about it than they do.</p>
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		<title>By: fester</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526572</link>
		<dc:creator>fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:50:42 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Markm --- probably not as a terrorist as that word is defined is seeking some type of political end with their violence.  A pirate is seeking to make money --- so replace pirate with thief, the meaning will remain the same.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markm --- probably not as a terrorist as that word is defined is seeking some type of political end with their violence.  A pirate is seeking to make money --- so replace pirate with thief, the meaning will remain the same.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526565</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:42:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This seems like a fine chance for some international co-operation. For example, we have a common interest with Iran in having free &amp; safe shipping lanes in that part of the world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This seems like a fine chance for some international co-operation. For example, we have a common interest with Iran in having free &amp; safe shipping lanes in that part of the world.</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526557</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 18:33:15 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Is it safe to replace &quot;Pirate&quot; with &quot;terrorist&quot; or no?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is it safe to replace "Pirate" with "terrorist" or no?</p>
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		<title>By: fester</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/another_ship_seized/comment-page-1/#comment-526531</link>
		<dc:creator>fester</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=27610#comment-526531</guid>
		<description>Good post Dave --- a couple of thoughts --- most escort missions just require sufficient number of ships --- shifting resources from the Northern Arabian Sea to the Gulf of Aden would move a CVBG and an amphib group or roughly ~12 to 15 warships to the mission.  More importantly would it would move a couple of at sea replenishment vessels that should allow other navies to be much more effective.

I wonder if the Egyptians can shift resources out of the Med and down the Red Sea as this is an economic threat to their stability --- still need to spin this one out a bit....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post Dave --- a couple of thoughts --- most escort missions just require sufficient number of ships --- shifting resources from the Northern Arabian Sea to the Gulf of Aden would move a CVBG and an amphib group or roughly ~12 to 15 warships to the mission.  More importantly would it would move a couple of at sea replenishment vessels that should allow other navies to be much more effective.</p>
<p>I wonder if the Egyptians can shift resources out of the Med and down the Red Sea as this is an economic threat to their stability --- still need to spin this one out a bit....</p>
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