<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Are Police Becoming a Necessary Evil?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 22:06:00 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Kent G. Budge</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109870</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent G. Budge</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 16:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109870</guid>
		<description>Steve, you can do the math.  Suppose it&#039;s a one-in-a-thousand chance that a traffic stop will turn dangerous.  That probably sounds pretty remote to the average person. Now consider that a traffic cop will probably stop a thousand people a year.  That means about a 60% chance per year that the cop will have a traffic stop turn bad.  Not so remote after all.

My point is that civilians confront dangerous situations so rarely that they can afford to hesitate and stop and think.  Their lifetime risk is small.  Cops who want to live long enough to collect their retirement have to be ready to respond instantly to a threat.  This does make for  accidents.  I think the reason cops get more slack is because these realities are understood.

Having said that:  I think the pendulum may well have swung too far in favor of the cops, and now needs to swing back.  But let&#039;s put a healthy damping term on the oscillations.  Pronouncing cops evil (even if a necessary evil) might help the pendulum turn back, but it also increases the chances that it will swing right past the optimum to the other extreme.

There is no excuse for the Johnston case, which isn&#039;t about a poor decision in a snap situation, but a premeditated pattern of entrapment that plausibly warrants for first-degree murder charges.   I&#039;m less familiar with the other cases and don&#039;t know how typical they are -- that Balko is able to compile an impressive list of abuses is not proof that he is not cherry-picking his data.  Failing to double-check a license tag strikes me as the kind of stupid lapse that should not necessarily be career-ending. Whether the arrest used too much force is a separate question; without the video, I&#039;m hesitant to judge.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve, you can do the math.  Suppose it's a one-in-a-thousand chance that a traffic stop will turn dangerous.  That probably sounds pretty remote to the average person. Now consider that a traffic cop will probably stop a thousand people a year.  That means about a 60% chance per year that the cop will have a traffic stop turn bad.  Not so remote after all.</p>
<p>My point is that civilians confront dangerous situations so rarely that they can afford to hesitate and stop and think.  Their lifetime risk is small.  Cops who want to live long enough to collect their retirement have to be ready to respond instantly to a threat.  This does make for  accidents.  I think the reason cops get more slack is because these realities are understood.</p>
<p>Having said that:  I think the pendulum may well have swung too far in favor of the cops, and now needs to swing back.  But let's put a healthy damping term on the oscillations.  Pronouncing cops evil (even if a necessary evil) might help the pendulum turn back, but it also increases the chances that it will swing right past the optimum to the other extreme.</p>
<p>There is no excuse for the Johnston case, which isn't about a poor decision in a snap situation, but a premeditated pattern of entrapment that plausibly warrants for first-degree murder charges.   I'm less familiar with the other cases and don't know how typical they are -- that Balko is able to compile an impressive list of abuses is not proof that he is not cherry-picking his data.  Failing to double-check a license tag strikes me as the kind of stupid lapse that should not necessarily be career-ending. Whether the arrest used too much force is a separate question; without the video, I'm hesitant to judge.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Gollum</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109865</link>
		<dc:creator>Gollum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 15:14:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109865</guid>
		<description>Hmmm.

Steph, it may be time for you to visit the clinic again.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm.</p>
<p>Steph, it may be time for you to visit the clinic again.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109862</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 14:23:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109862</guid>
		<description>I think rape and murder are evil you think police are.

If supporting people who put their lives on the line every day is stupid I am.

My best friend&#039;s husband was a police officer killed in the line of duty and worthless subhumans like you danced and say he deserved it.

Police make mistakes there&#039;s no question about it and there are bad ones out there.

But anyone who would call them evil every single one of them is ridiculous.

I consider child rapists evil.  You consider police evil.

The last murder in my town the murderer was named Anderson.  All people named Anderson are murderers then.

People like Anderson think the gang leaders rapists murderers and such are the GOOD guys.

What&#039;s your favorite crime?  Every anti police person thinks criminals should be allowed to roam free so which crime do you think should be legalized first?

People like Anderson want murder and rape to be legal.  

Only good thing about anti police people is if you ever are dating one RUN.  They are saying they will beat and rape you and your children daily if you ever marry.

A police officer risks his life every day.

Anderson rapes kids every day.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think rape and murder are evil you think police are.</p>
<p>If supporting people who put their lives on the line every day is stupid I am.</p>
<p>My best friend's husband was a police officer killed in the line of duty and worthless subhumans like you danced and say he deserved it.</p>
<p>Police make mistakes there's no question about it and there are bad ones out there.</p>
<p>But anyone who would call them evil every single one of them is ridiculous.</p>
<p>I consider child rapists evil.  You consider police evil.</p>
<p>The last murder in my town the murderer was named Anderson.  All people named Anderson are murderers then.</p>
<p>People like Anderson think the gang leaders rapists murderers and such are the GOOD guys.</p>
<p>What's your favorite crime?  Every anti police person thinks criminals should be allowed to roam free so which crime do you think should be legalized first?</p>
<p>People like Anderson want murder and rape to be legal.  </p>
<p>Only good thing about anti police people is if you ever are dating one RUN.  They are saying they will beat and rape you and your children daily if you ever marry.</p>
<p>A police officer risks his life every day.</p>
<p>Anderson rapes kids every day.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109843</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 03:53:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109843</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Steph,

Are you simply trolling or were you serious?&lt;/em&gt; 

Stupid, either way.  (That&#039;s no way to troll.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Steph,</p>
<p>Are you simply trolling or were you serious?</em> </p>
<p>Stupid, either way.  (That's no way to troll.)</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109830</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 01:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109830</guid>
		<description>Steph,

Are you simply trolling or were you serious?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steph,</p>
<p>Are you simply trolling or were you serious?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109818</link>
		<dc:creator>Steph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Jan 2007 00:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109818</guid>
		<description>I always thought this was a good blog done by a good person.

BUt anti police means pro rape and murder.  You dance when you hear an officer died.

If a gang member was shooting you&#039;d want him to shoot the officer not the officer shoot them.

Yes police make mistakes.  But most of the complaints against them are bogus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I always thought this was a good blog done by a good person.</p>
<p>BUt anti police means pro rape and murder.  You dance when you hear an officer died.</p>
<p>If a gang member was shooting you'd want him to shoot the officer not the officer shoot them.</p>
<p>Yes police make mistakes.  But most of the complaints against them are bogus.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: djneylon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109807</link>
		<dc:creator>djneylon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109807</guid>
		<description>a lot of law enforcement agencies are incredibly sloppy with paperwork....they have a tendency to excuse their mistakes by falling back on the pressure of the moment....they try but fail to assume a paramilitary style, when many of them would not last five minutes in a operational military unit...they see life as &quot;us (cops)&quot; and &quot;them (everyone else)&quot;....they have near zero accountability...the real threat is many of our large police departments (and the bigger they are, the truer all the above are) do not trust the citizens in their community and have lost the trust of their community.....it&#039;s past time for &quot;to serve and protect&quot; to be not a motto, but a mission statement</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>a lot of law enforcement agencies are incredibly sloppy with paperwork....they have a tendency to excuse their mistakes by falling back on the pressure of the moment....they try but fail to assume a paramilitary style, when many of them would not last five minutes in a operational military unit...they see life as "us (cops)" and "them (everyone else)"....they have near zero accountability...the real threat is many of our large police departments (and the bigger they are, the truer all the above are) do not trust the citizens in their community and have lost the trust of their community.....it's past time for "to serve and protect" to be not a motto, but a mission statement</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109805</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 23:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109805</guid>
		<description>just me,

I&#039;m sorry, but I think you&#039;ve fallen into the problem so many often do.  You vastly over-estimate the probability of a bad outcome.  How many traffic stops are there, and how many go bad?  That is something that never comes up in these discussions; all we hear about is the one(s) that went bad, which I&#039;d be willing to bet are a tiny fraction of the number of stops.

Same goes with serving warrants.  In Fairfax VA, about half of the warrants are served with a SWAT team.  Think about your household, would a warrant need to be served on you or a member of your family with a fully armed, locked &amp; loaded SWAT team?  Do you like the odds of 50-50 that that is how one would be served on you or a member of your household?

Further, one reason why SWAT units serve so many warrants is to &quot;preserve evidence&quot;.  Is evidence so important that we are willing to risk the lives of the innocent?

Cops need to held to a much higher standard than they currently are, and preferably one higher than us civilians are held too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>just me,</p>
<p>I'm sorry, but I think you've fallen into the problem so many often do.  You vastly over-estimate the probability of a bad outcome.  How many traffic stops are there, and how many go bad?  That is something that never comes up in these discussions; all we hear about is the one(s) that went bad, which I'd be willing to bet are a tiny fraction of the number of stops.</p>
<p>Same goes with serving warrants.  In Fairfax VA, about half of the warrants are served with a SWAT team.  Think about your household, would a warrant need to be served on you or a member of your family with a fully armed, locked &#038; loaded SWAT team?  Do you like the odds of 50-50 that that is how one would be served on you or a member of your household?</p>
<p>Further, one reason why SWAT units serve so many warrants is to "preserve evidence".  Is evidence so important that we are willing to risk the lives of the innocent?</p>
<p>Cops need to held to a much higher standard than they currently are, and preferably one higher than us civilians are held too.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109802</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109802</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Frankly, I would prefer that police in non-emergency situations stop &amp; think what the hell they’re doing, and wonder whether they could get fired &amp; imprisoned for not knowing the answer to that question&lt;/i&gt;

The only problem is that often it is the non emergency situation that turns into a dangerous one.  There was a cop killed here several years back that was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop-and this happens quite often in every state (there is a reason cops are taught to put a handprint on your car during a traffic stop).  Knowing when something routine and not dangerous has switched into not routine and dangerous isn&#039;t always an easy call.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Frankly, I would prefer that police in non-emergency situations stop &amp; think what the hell they&rsquo;re doing, and wonder whether they could get fired &amp; imprisoned for not knowing the answer to that question</i></p>
<p>The only problem is that often it is the non emergency situation that turns into a dangerous one.  There was a cop killed here several years back that was shot and killed during a routine traffic stop-and this happens quite often in every state (there is a reason cops are taught to put a handprint on your car during a traffic stop).  Knowing when something routine and not dangerous has switched into not routine and dangerous isn't always an easy call.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109800</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 22:30:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109800</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;First, it is your local police agency that is more likely to violate your rights than the FBI. In my opinion this is because the local jurisdictions have less respect for constitutional rights. &lt;/i&gt;

I think this is a good point.  

I think we need to be careful with thinking that cops are bad, or are worse than criminals.

I do think police forces are overly enamored of the more military style equipment and enforcement.  

It is dangerous to be a cop, our state has had two cops killed within the last few months by people they were trying to aprehend-cops aren&#039;t playing a game, they do a dangerous job, and while the majority of calls and stops result in nothing dangerous, there are enough bad calls to be wary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>First, it is your local police agency that is more likely to violate your rights than the FBI. In my opinion this is because the local jurisdictions have less respect for constitutional rights. </i></p>
<p>I think this is a good point.  </p>
<p>I think we need to be careful with thinking that cops are bad, or are worse than criminals.</p>
<p>I do think police forces are overly enamored of the more military style equipment and enforcement.  </p>
<p>It is dangerous to be a cop, our state has had two cops killed within the last few months by people they were trying to aprehend-cops aren't playing a game, they do a dangerous job, and while the majority of calls and stops result in nothing dangerous, there are enough bad calls to be wary.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109771</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 19:32:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109771</guid>
		<description>As Steve V. suggests, a lot of the problem is that police are held to a *lower* standard than the average person.  I guess on the theory that it frees them up to do their job.

Doesn&#039;t seem like such a hot theory any more.

Frankly, I would prefer that police in non-emergency situations stop &amp; think what the hell they&#039;re doing, and wonder whether they could get fired &amp; imprisoned for not knowing the answer to that question.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As Steve V. suggests, a lot of the problem is that police are held to a *lower* standard than the average person.  I guess on the theory that it frees them up to do their job.</p>
<p>Doesn't seem like such a hot theory any more.</p>
<p>Frankly, I would prefer that police in non-emergency situations stop &amp; think what the hell they're doing, and wonder whether they could get fired &amp; imprisoned for not knowing the answer to that question.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/comment-page-1/#comment-109760</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jan 2007 18:47:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/01/are_police_becoming_a_necessary_evil/#comment-109760</guid>
		<description>Two points.  First, it is your local police agency that is more likely to violate your rights than the FBI.  In my opinion this is because the local jurisdictions have less respect for constitutional rights.  The media loves to report the latest terrorist surveillance methods that might infringe on privacy rights while they ignore every day actual abuses by local law enforcement.

Second, it all goes back to training.  Today&#039;s police are trained to avoid any risk.  That means all are treated as high risk threats.  Little old ladies included.  Police departments must return to the idea that most citizens are not threats and that some risk must be carried with the job.  Until then we will continue to see abuses as noted in the post.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Two points.  First, it is your local police agency that is more likely to violate your rights than the FBI.  In my opinion this is because the local jurisdictions have less respect for constitutional rights.  The media loves to report the latest terrorist surveillance methods that might infringe on privacy rights while they ignore every day actual abuses by local law enforcement.</p>
<p>Second, it all goes back to training.  Today's police are trained to avoid any risk.  That means all are treated as high risk threats.  Little old ladies included.  Police departments must return to the idea that most citizens are not threats and that some risk must be carried with the job.  Until then we will continue to see abuses as noted in the post.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
