Comments on: Atlanta Bans Panhandling

By: Russ

Russ — Fri, 19 Aug 2005 05:12:21 +0000

I have heard all the arguments about this supposed "attack" on the poor. There can be a big difference between being homeless and being poor. I live in downtown Atlanta and if there are attacks it is usually our homeless vagrants doing the attacking. The attacks come in many manifestations. Urinating and defecating in restaurant and office doorways has nothing to do with the right to ask for money, does it? Build more homeless shelters? The homeless shelters are everywhere downtown...but the complaint by the staff's are that they go unused except at feeding time and when it's 10 degrees aoutside. Ask any church volunteer who has spent time at one. Downtown revitalization projects have twice been attacked and destroyed by homeless arsonists, one just last month, by making campfires in buildings under construction causing millions of dollars in damage. Downtown, two major law firms employing thousands of people have vacated an entired 40 story building here because they had a tough time attracting talent to live and work in the desolation that is downtown Atlanta. Parents of prospective college students who live outside the city, fearful for their kids safety, readily dismiss the idea of their students attending Georgia State University, or as it is better known, Ghetto U. because every year a GSU student is brutally attacked by a predator decribed by the media as "homeless." Business travel and convention planners look for somewhere else to send their money spending conferees after only one trip to "the homeless city". After they get their employees feedback of being marooned in a virtually empty downtown Atlanta, panhandled on every block and with few remaining shops and restaurants open during the day, let alone at night, because business has fled, they seldom return. The little guy with the diner or the shoestore or the pizza place, who depends on convention traffic gets killed. When business is good, won't he hire a person who needs work? Danger:Rhetorical question. We lost a major regional outdoor arts and crafts show to Raleigh and the nation's largest computer show, because it was reported that Atlanta was becoming "seedy". Seedy is a compliment.. I think they meant "composty." Want to know the reality? Despite years of revitalization Atlanta continues to be the premier Southern embarassment city with few cultural amenities for a city of its size, very little green space and a crime rate second only to Washington, D.C. When progressive Atlanta politicians like Shirley Franklin advocate moves that will bring business, opportunity and now some semblence of public order to the chaos that is Atlanta they are accused of heartlessness by the professional so-called "civil rights advocates" who safely advocate panaceas yet never contribute toconcrete solutions. I mean, come on, who doesn't want job training for the poor or good housing. Easy to advocate and pontificate...but, where do you get the money when the tax base moves out of town, geniuses? These advocates also, by the way, make their money primarily by handouts and by leaning on companies who are afraid of being called racist. The proposed 24 million dollar aquarium site in downtown is completely appropriate, being near the other feeding frenzy called City Hall. Cleaning out aggressive homeless vagrants, street thugs, street smart scam artists, and professional "will work for food artists" is only the tip of the iceberg if Atlanta wants to be taken seriously by anybody, business or the public. Of course, if you live here and disagree with me then, by all means, please feel free to walk down my street, man-up and do your part to prove your point, and take one of these sweet smelling homeless mumbling winos or crack-heads, your choice, home with you. If charity starts at home...I'd rather it be in YOURS.

By: anjin-san

anjin-san — Wed, 17 Aug 2005 03:50:42 +0000

Ya know, Fersboo sounds like a Bakersfield kind of guy to me...

By: Fersboo

Fersboo — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 22:01:38 +0000

So Scott in CA, are you saying that when I breeze through SF this weekend with the kids, I won't be accosted on just about every street corner? Nor will the smell of urine dominate the parks? Outstanding!

Note: I've got nothing against SF'ers (except the politics and the 49'ers (Go G-men)) and the wife wants to move there (yeah, you call me a work-aholic now, how many hours as an accountant do I need to work to live in SF?).

By: Scott in CA

Scott in CA — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 21:40:44 +0000

No, you will NOT send them to San Francisco. That's where I am. We have a new program to send homeless people back to wherever they want to go, as long as a phone call verifies that someone is willing to meet them on the other end. We send about 70 people a week home now. We also cut their county general assistance checks from $400 to $59. Amazingly, our homeless general assistance population has dropped from near 3000 to less than 450. We also offer shelter beds that lead to permanent housing in about 6 months. For some strange reason, over half of them refuse the shelter. That's not what they want, and we all know it. We also banned panhandling on freeway on and off ramps, near ATMs, near bus stops, etc. It survived the courts. We also have Business Improvement Districts all over town that hire private security to "suggest" that they move along. It's all working. You just have to keep at it and fight the lawsuits.

By: ALS

ALS — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 19:00:53 +0000

The best remedy for this problem is for people to stop giving handouts to bums and direct their charity to charitable causes and organizations instead. ALS: handouts contribute to the problem. Donations contribute toward some kind of solution

Pardon me while I laugh... you sound like you're talking to a liberal. Guess you haven't read much of what I've had to say on OTB.

Nowhere in any of my posts did I say I wanted to give homeless people handouts and free money. There are roughly 7,000 homeless in Atlanta, with only 400 beds in Atlanta homeless shelters.

As much as we'd like to wish them all to work, the sad reality is that there will always be homeless people, for whatever reasons, in big cities.

And sorry, I just think passing a law that criminalizes asking for money is silly. It's not going to do anything to address the problem. Does it make homeless people suddenly not homeless? Of course not. It doesn't even stop panhandling, either. Ask other cities that have tried it. It just forces the panhandlers to other parts of the city. Especially in the case of this Atlanta law, since it only outlaws panhandling in the tourist district.

They could put more into city homeless shelters - job training and placement services would be a start.

And no one says it has to be tax dollars to do it.

By: slickdpdx

slickdpdx — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:40:43 +0000

Additionally, nothing contributes to poverty like unemployment. Panhandlers hamper economic development where they are permitted to flourish.

By: slickdpdx

slickdpdx — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 18:39:07 +0000

Despite your common sense analysis, the courts in New York have ruled such laws unconstituitional, resulting in having to pass "aggressive panhandling" statutes. I wouldn't be surprised if Atlanta finds itself having to do the same thing.
The best remedy for this problem is for people to stop giving handouts to bums and direct their charity to charitable causes and organizations instead. ALS: handouts contribute to the problem. Donations contribute toward some kind of solution. Of course, some might resent that those donations follow their subsidization of housing, welfare, SSI, and so on. Why subsidize these programs if they're not preventing begging? (And never will. There is no limit to the amount of money a person is willing to collect. Although there may be a magic number to stop at, say ten for a ten dollar bag, five dollars for a six-pack, or whatever.)

By: Michael

Michael — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:26:43 +0000

ALS: The root causes of poverty? Well, aside from the very few who are mentally disabled, I'd say the root causes of poverty are stupid choices and an unwillingness to work. Oh, and pissing all over a guy who gives $600k to homeless shelters isn't much help either.

By: Fersboo

Fersboo — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 17:15:44 +0000

The City of Atlanta should give them a one-way bus ticket to San Francisco. You know, for the health benefit of that great Bay Area climate. I'm just sayin', thats all.

By: Mark

Mark — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:39:12 +0000

I prefer the Sam Kinison solution to the homeless: execution! Heh.

By: ALS

ALS — Tue, 16 Aug 2005 16:33:40 +0000

This strikes me as a silly law, likely to backfire. How can they truly enforce it?

I read elsewhere that a 3rd offense will result in a fine. Hello? How much sense does that make? People begging for spare change are somehow going to pay a $1,000 fine?

I'm no longer a Georgia resident, so I guess it's really none of my business. But I do visit Atlanta, and it seems to me that the legislature could better serve the public good by addressing some of the root issues of poverty, rather than making laws that amount to a proverbial see-no-evil policy.

Building more homeless shelters would be a nice start.