1) UN resolution 1441 DID NOT authorize the US to invade IRAQ under UN auspices.
2) Both Bush and Cheney are complicit in torturing unconvicted and thus presumably innocent people.
3)Bush has admitted to illegally tapping Americans' phone calls without a warrant in violation of the FISA law.
4) Any time an American's constitutional rights are violated, that American has been "damaged" in a legally prosecutable sense.
5) Just because Bush or LJD says it doesn't make it so.
6) Neither LJD nor Bush has been elected God, Judge and Jury over the rest of us and his belief in this was logically unsound.

Best wishes to all and may God Bless America and protect us from further terrorist attacks despite our incompetent govt.

Anyhoo, we'll continue to examine his problem. LDJ states "I donâ??t understand why you lefties want to extend your constitutional rights to terrorists." LDJ, how do you know the people being tortured are terrorists without some legal process to determine their guilt? By your standard, if the Bushies torture you, you must be a terrorist. See the logical disconnect?

LJD states "I guess it depends on your definition of torture. I guess you would have us feed them milk and cookiesâ?¦." Wow, you got me there LDJ. Ouch! (Just kidding!) My definition of torture is the kind of stuff we'd imprison our own soldiers for doing--like we're doing. Was this another logical disconnect, LDJ? I think it was was. Yes, yes, it was. Darn it. On second thought, maybe the Bushies just like locking up our own soldiers. Hmmm. I'll have to think about that one. Can you help me out here LJD?

Um, LDJ, I left aside the lying to Congress. (Read it again. Take your time, we know you're a bit slow as evidenced by the logical disconnects.)

To continue, LDJ writes "Wire-tapping not-even-accused Americans? Well, if theyâ??re calling KNOWN terrorists OUTSIDE of the country, during a time of war, I would say they have given up their rights." Playing judge and jury again, I see, LDJ. Please refer to the original logical disconnect I mentioned in my first post.

LJD, please document just one of the KNOWN terrorists you're speaking of. See, two can play at that game--but I do have an answer for your attempt. See below. Your problem is that your position relies on blind faith in the great leader. Mine doesn't, and I don't, given the history of lies and lawbreaking by the Bushies. I'll keep trying to educate you, LDJ, but you need to do your part and not repeat the same exact error. OK, it's a learning curve. I'll give you that one.

LDJ,it appears you've conceded the complicity of Cheney and Bush in the torture. So, apparently you can be taught. Good job and a gold star on that one. I also have a correction to make, it's HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS wasted on a war of choice poorly executed, not 100s of millions as I stated. My bad.

LJD states: "Please show one individual who was damaged by this process" referring to spying on Americans without a warrant. That would be every single one who was spied on without a warrant since their consitutional rights were violated according to existing American law. Logical, right? See, it's not that hard to figure this stuff out, LJD. Just apply some logic.

no where in that document is it written that the United States is given permission by the UN to unilaterally invade and occupy Iraq. If you can find a passage that states that please post it.

Your assumptions. The 'invasion' was not unilateral, nor did we intend to occupy. Our present situation, as I said before, is due to the inaction of other members of the security council who are proven to have been in violation of international law. Interesting you lefties only like laws when they suit your needs.

A little logical disconnect there LDJ.

I was clearly talking about crimes that have been punished. Combatants without a country do not fall under the same set of laws. I don't understand why you lefties want to extend your constitutional rights to terrorists.

Hmmm. Try googling Cheney and torture. Their you can read all about Cheney defending torture. Sounds like complicity to me. As does Bushâ??s â??signing statementâ?? when he claimed he could ignore McCainâ??s anti-torture bill whenever he chose.

I guess it depends on your definition of torture. I guess you would have us feed them milk and cookies...

LDJ seems confused on Bush squandering 100â??s of millions on a poorly executed war of choice.

Again, your perspective. I guess you didn't have a family member over there getting shot at to enforce the will of the U.N. At least you get to enjoy not having your head sawn off by terrorists.

Weâ??ll leave aside the torture of untried and therefore presumably innocent people, lying to Congress during the run-up to the war, etc. Letâ??s just leave it at tapping the phones of not-even-accused Americans without obtaining a FISA warrant as required by law. Bush has admitted tyo the offense.

Lying to Congress, again your interpretation. You must really think your elelcted officials are stupid. So please, enlighten me with you proof (no more of your assumptions like the ones previously posted). Wire-tapping not-even-accused Americans? Well, if they're calling KNOWN terrorists OUTSIDE of the country, during a time of war, I would say they have given up their rights. Please show one individual who was damaged by this process.

In para 2 he sneers: "I defy you to show complicity of any individual higher than the rank of Brigadier General. . . ." Hmmm. Try googling Cheney and torture. Their you can read all about Cheney defending torture. Sounds like complicity to me. As does Bush's "signing statement" when he claimed he could ignore McCain's anti-torture bill whenever he chose.

Para 3, LDJ seems confused on Bush squandering 100's of millions on a poorly executed war of choice. Must be a bit slow. I guess that was obvious enough already.

Para 4. LDJ is unclear on what law was broken by Bush. We'll leave aside the torture of untried and therefore presumably innocent people, lying to Congress during the run-up to the war, etc. Let's just leave it at tapping the phones of not-even-accused Americans without obtaining a FISA warrant as required by law. Bush has admitted tyo the offense. What confuses you about this, LDJ?

You are a funny man.

Do you enjoy your work at the Lincoln Group? Tell your supervisor that the script you are working off is a bit dated and overcome by events.

If you should want to actually read resolution 1441 you would be able to see that no where in that document is it written that the United States is given permission by the UN to unilaterally invade and occupy Iraq. If you can find a passage that states that please post it.

I thought I belonged to the party of the Jack-booted thugs & Gestapo, but the Dems seem to be more effective with their own NKVD/KGB.

It was Google that brought Ben down, not the KGB.

And his own actions, of course.

http://www.redstate.com/story/2006/3/24/151255/259

all those reasons turned out to be a lie.

Uh, Yeah.
Saddam WAS in compliance with international law.
Oil for food reallly DID help the Iraqi people.
Saddam PROVED that he destroyed all of his WMDs.
Our pilots IMAGINED being shot at.
Riiiggghhhht.

Ben Domenech has had a rough few days. He started off taking shit for his new Red America blog over at WaPo. Then he’s called a bigot for some blog posts he made a while back at Red State.
Now, he’s been forced to resign from his position...

Americas greatest enemies are people like you.

We are not afraid of a few chumps overseas who fanticize about destroying America. We know it is just a fantacy. What we do worry about, those of us who care about our country that is, are conservative borrow and squander fiscal policies, about violations of law through illegal wiretaps, about a president who changes policy to allow for torture.

That you are not outraged about these things just proves your values are more conservative than they are American.

Surely, we should not easily dismiss conduct within our own midst that we savage when done by CBS News or the New York Times.

O.K. Ken, I'll bite.

1441 and the other resolutions leading up to it clearly authorized the use of force by the U.S. The fact that some countries, including Russia, China, France did not support action, did not remove the force of the resolution. We now know why they voted against action, they were deeply complicit in violating sanctions and making money doing it.

O.K. a few terrorists have been tortured here and there. A few military personnel have been prosecuted. (By 'few' in both cases I mean an overwhelming minority of the total number). Nowhere has a 'presidential directive' to treat prisoners this way EVER been uncovered. I defy you to show complicity of any individual higher than the rank of Brigadier General Karpinski, who has since publicly embarrased herself, acted in a manner unbecoming an officer, and generally shirked any responsiblity for not knowing what was going on under her command. On the contrary, I can show you numerous instances where high level Commanders and members of the administration have directly spoken out against torture.

Borrow and squander? I'm sorry you feel that the following represent 'squandering': 9/11 & the subsequent homeland security spending, Tsunami aid, Hurricane aid to Florida and the Gulf States, Kashmir earthquake aid, Central American floods, Phillipine mud slides,... I thought you people were supposed to be more humanitarian minded. I guess all you care about is your own pocket book.

Clear violations of the law? So now you are judge and jury. So much for our legal system. Obviously you do not have any faith that it works. In this country we like to believe the accused is innocent until proven guilty. We have all sorts of safeguards to be sure that our elected officials do not misuse their power. Even with all of the talk of censure and impeachment, nothing has come to pass. Why is that? Because the 'evil empire' has become impermeable to our laws, or because you don;t have a shred of evidence?

I am not responsible for the dishoner of America.

guess what? Wrong here also. When you say that our honorable men and women in uniform are torturers, instruments of an 'illegal regime'; When you say that the enemy is justified in their actions; When you level unfounded accusations against our leaders; You serve support these misconceptions elsewhere in the world. You know, places that get wads and wads of aid to get a better quality of living for themselves, and while they hate us so much, for some reason are attempting to migrate here by the millions. While countires like China and Russia actually do violate innternational law, and actually do issue directives for human rights abuses, somehow they are immune from scorn. Know why? They don't have a media that hates their country. They don't have useful idiots like you to criticize. At least, not for very long because they probably end up dead.

The fact is that we have the most free society, the most opportunity, the most equality. We are truly the most philanthropic country anywhere in the world, whether it be money, food, clothing, assistance, or the very lives of our citizens. I know it's been said before Ken, but if things are so tough around here, why not try another country on for size?

Instead you attack me. How pathetic. I am not responsible for the dishoner of America. Your republic president and his conservative administration is the guilty party.