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	<title>Comments on: Bad Attitude Punishable?</title>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12800</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12800</guid>
		<description>TMorgan,

I&#039;m pretty sure they&#039;re ALSO confiscating the items or making them be checked or whatever.

I don&#039;t advocate being rude to public employees.  My dad spent most of his career working for government (20+ Army, 10+ DOD civilian) and I&#039;ve worked for the Army and state universities.  

I&#039;m just saying having a bad attitude shouldn&#039;t be a fineable offense--sure as hell absent due process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>TMorgan,</p>
<p>I'm pretty sure they're ALSO confiscating the items or making them be checked or whatever.</p>
<p>I don't advocate being rude to public employees.  My dad spent most of his career working for government (20+ Army, 10+ DOD civilian) and I've worked for the Army and state universities.  </p>
<p>I'm just saying having a bad attitude shouldn't be a fineable offense--sure as hell absent due process.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Maviva</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12801</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Maviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12801</guid>
		<description>Sounds pretty bad.  I&#039;d like to know if the ticket warned about the doubling of fines, however, before I tee off on TSA.  

My parking tickets, for example, warn that if I don&#039;t pay or file a court claim within 30 days, the fine will double.  I think it&#039;s crappy, but it&#039;s within the law if it is done correctly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds pretty bad.  I'd like to know if the ticket warned about the doubling of fines, however, before I tee off on TSA.  </p>
<p>My parking tickets, for example, warn that if I don't pay or file a court claim within 30 days, the fine will double.  I think it's crappy, but it's within the law if it is done correctly.</p>
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		<title>By: Al Maviva</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12802</link>
		<dc:creator>Al Maviva</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12802</guid>
		<description>Sorry, responding to the whole story there.  On the attitude as aggravating factor, I&#039;m not sure if you are aware that Congress legislated away free speech rights in airports a long time ago.  Saying the word &quot;bomb&quot; or &quot;terrorist&quot; or &quot;hijacking&quot; can get you arrested.  I suppose in that regulatory climate, of reduced liberties (in the name of the compelling interest of safety, natch) that a fine for lipping off to a TSA screener isn&#039;t shocking.  Again, shitty, but not illegal.  On the other side of the coin, it would be interesting to know whether the bad attitude started before or after the cake knife episode. As per usual, I don&#039;t really trust what I read in the papers, there aren&#039;t enough facts upon which to make a reasoned judgment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, responding to the whole story there.  On the attitude as aggravating factor, I'm not sure if you are aware that Congress legislated away free speech rights in airports a long time ago.  Saying the word "bomb" or "terrorist" or "hijacking" can get you arrested.  I suppose in that regulatory climate, of reduced liberties (in the name of the compelling interest of safety, natch) that a fine for lipping off to a TSA screener isn't shocking.  Again, shitty, but not illegal.  On the other side of the coin, it would be interesting to know whether the bad attitude started before or after the cake knife episode. As per usual, I don't really trust what I read in the papers, there aren't enough facts upon which to make a reasoned judgment.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12803</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12803</guid>
		<description>Congress&#039; ability to legislate against free speech is limited--&quot;Congress shall make no law....&quot; and all that. Saying &quot;bomb&quot; or such is a reasonable enough time, place, and manner restriction in the current environment. But having a bad attitude?!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Congress' ability to legislate against free speech is limited--"Congress shall make no law...." and all that. Saying "bomb" or such is a reasonable enough time, place, and manner restriction in the current environment. But having a bad attitude?!</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12804</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12804</guid>
		<description>My attitude toward TSA is so bad I&#039;ve avoided flying since Feb. 2002 -- and I only flew then because it was a family emergency.

This year my wife wants to visit Fairbanks -- it will have been five years since we moved away -- and unfortunately we have to use the airlines to get there.

Lucky for me they can&#039;t fine me for two and a half solid years of bad attitude. Yet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My attitude toward TSA is so bad I've avoided flying since Feb. 2002 -- and I only flew then because it was a family emergency.</p>
<p>This year my wife wants to visit Fairbanks -- it will have been five years since we moved away -- and unfortunately we have to use the airlines to get there.</p>
<p>Lucky for me they can't fine me for two and a half solid years of bad attitude. Yet.</p>
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		<title>By: SJohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12805</link>
		<dc:creator>SJohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12805</guid>
		<description>The fine is indeed ridiculous.

As for the issue of whether a govt. employee &quot;gets&quot; to be rude or not: If you want a certain level of quality from your govt. employees, you should be prepared to pay for it. You don&#039;t always get lovely helpful shining examples of humanity when you pay the lowest price you can. As the govt. continues to privatize various functions, in fact, you can expect more and more rude behavior, because the companies competing for the contracts are going to keep their pay as low as they possibly can to 1) gain the contracts in the first place, and 2) maximize their profits. In fact, it&#039;s not just the attitude that&#039;s going to suffer, it&#039;s the general level of quality in all such metrics.

But hey, at least it&#039;s cheap, right? Yeah, right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fine is indeed ridiculous.</p>
<p>As for the issue of whether a govt. employee "gets" to be rude or not: If you want a certain level of quality from your govt. employees, you should be prepared to pay for it. You don't always get lovely helpful shining examples of humanity when you pay the lowest price you can. As the govt. continues to privatize various functions, in fact, you can expect more and more rude behavior, because the companies competing for the contracts are going to keep their pay as low as they possibly can to 1) gain the contracts in the first place, and 2) maximize their profits. In fact, it's not just the attitude that's going to suffer, it's the general level of quality in all such metrics.</p>
<p>But hey, at least it's cheap, right? Yeah, right.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12806</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12806</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think TSA is contracted out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think TSA is contracted out?</p>
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		<title>By: SJohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12807</link>
		<dc:creator>SJohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12807</guid>
		<description>No, it&#039;s not, actually. I was talking about government functions in general. Nobody had made a point here about TSA themselves being rude (unless you count unexpected fines as rude, and, well, hell, you do have a point there). So I was just addressing the &quot;you get what you pay for&quot; subtext behind comments like &quot;forcibly extracted&quot; and &quot;having the option to stop paying their salaries.&quot;

This sort of illustrates my point (not really, but pretty close). There&#039;s a Fry&#039;s and a Safeway across the street from each other in my neighborhood. Fry&#039;s has slightly cheaper prices, but significantly snottier clerks and marginally worse meat &amp; produce. So I shop at Safeway, where I have to pay a little more.

But like I said, that&#039;s not quite the point. Cause the government does pretty much have a monopoly on the services they provide. But, when they start outsourcing their services to the lowest bidder, you can&#039;t expect that the quality is going to be what you want it to be.

(actually, wasn&#039;t there a big push to privatize TSA after 9/11? I can&#039;t remember the details. Did I hallucinate that?)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, it's not, actually. I was talking about government functions in general. Nobody had made a point here about TSA themselves being rude (unless you count unexpected fines as rude, and, well, hell, you do have a point there). So I was just addressing the "you get what you pay for" subtext behind comments like "forcibly extracted" and "having the option to stop paying their salaries."</p>
<p>This sort of illustrates my point (not really, but pretty close). There's a Fry's and a Safeway across the street from each other in my neighborhood. Fry's has slightly cheaper prices, but significantly snottier clerks and marginally worse meat &#038; produce. So I shop at Safeway, where I have to pay a little more.</p>
<p>But like I said, that's not quite the point. Cause the government does pretty much have a monopoly on the services they provide. But, when they start outsourcing their services to the lowest bidder, you can't expect that the quality is going to be what you want it to be.</p>
<p>(actually, wasn't there a big push to privatize TSA after 9/11? I can't remember the details. Did I hallucinate that?)</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12808</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12808</guid>
		<description>Actually, the opposite:  It was private before 9/11 and the attacks caused a big uproar demanding that airport security be turned over to a Federal law enforcement agency.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, the opposite:  It was private before 9/11 and the attacks caused a big uproar demanding that airport security be turned over to a Federal law enforcement agency.</p>
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		<title>By: SJohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12809</link>
		<dc:creator>SJohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12809</guid>
		<description>Ah! Not quite a hallucination, but close enough for goverment work....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah! Not quite a hallucination, but close enough for goverment work....</p>
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		<title>By: tsa employee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12810</link>
		<dc:creator>tsa employee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12810</guid>
		<description>If you want the prohibited item checked, mailed, etc. that means someone (airlines, TSA) will have to pay for it. Where I work, certain airlines stopped giving people the option of sending items because of the cost. As far as the fines being unfair, I would argue that TSA supervisors tend to bend over backwards in favor of the general public, which in my learned opinion makes the skies less secure.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you want the prohibited item checked, mailed, etc. that means someone (airlines, TSA) will have to pay for it. Where I work, certain airlines stopped giving people the option of sending items because of the cost. As far as the fines being unfair, I would argue that TSA supervisors tend to bend over backwards in favor of the general public, which in my learned opinion makes the skies less secure.</p>
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		<title>By: FedKate</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12811</link>
		<dc:creator>FedKate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12811</guid>
		<description>Thanks for some govât worker support. Too many people donât like us just because a relative of a relative felt they got treated badly when they didnât get what they wanted. There are many good govât workers. Unfortunately the doofuses tend to get all the press.
--
What really bugs me about what happened at the airport is the âbad attitudeâ fine and the âaggravating factor.â Letâs see, this woman is delayed from her flight and made to take a later flight.  Who wouldnât be at least a bit annoyed at that? The TSA person screwed with someone elseâs time then has the gall to complain that this woman didnât like being delayed. Iâve been accused of having a bad attitude just by sighing a little too heavily so I wouldnât be surprised if  the evidence of her bad attitude was just a heavy sigh at being delayed. The âaggravating factorâ in this case seems to be the TSA employee (the doofus gets the press). Itâs one thing to be fined for carrying a banned item but itâs just senseless to be fined over something so subjective as attitude. Yeeesh!! (Oops, does that mean I have a bad attitude?)

As for checking or mailing a prohibited item, it seems that if I don&#039;t pay attention to what I put in my bag then I should pay for the checking/mailing not the TSA. It&#039;s your stuff in your luggage then you pay for it. Seems like there would be a good business in having a stand selling boxes, envelopes and stamps at the airport.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for some govât worker support. Too many people donât like us just because a relative of a relative felt they got treated badly when they didnât get what they wanted. There are many good govât workers. Unfortunately the doofuses tend to get all the press.<br />
--<br />
What really bugs me about what happened at the airport is the âbad attitudeâ fine and the âaggravating factor.â Letâs see, this woman is delayed from her flight and made to take a later flight.  Who wouldnât be at least a bit annoyed at that? The TSA person screwed with someone elseâs time then has the gall to complain that this woman didnât like being delayed. Iâve been accused of having a bad attitude just by sighing a little too heavily so I wouldnât be surprised if  the evidence of her bad attitude was just a heavy sigh at being delayed. The âaggravating factorâ in this case seems to be the TSA employee (the doofus gets the press). Itâs one thing to be fined for carrying a banned item but itâs just senseless to be fined over something so subjective as attitude. Yeeesh!! (Oops, does that mean I have a bad attitude?)</p>
<p>As for checking or mailing a prohibited item, it seems that if I don't pay attention to what I put in my bag then I should pay for the checking/mailing not the TSA. It's your stuff in your luggage then you pay for it. Seems like there would be a good business in having a stand selling boxes, envelopes and stamps at the airport.</p>
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		<title>By: Vic the Appraiser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12812</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic the Appraiser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12812</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but this is a dumb and dishonest post. &quot;Cake utensil&quot; is a weak euphemism for &quot;really big serrated knife.&quot; My preference, as a frequent air traveler, is that no other passengers wield really big serrated knives, and I have no problem fining the dumb fookers if they try to carry really big serrated knives onto an airplane.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but this is a dumb and dishonest post. "Cake utensil" is a weak euphemism for "really big serrated knife." My preference, as a frequent air traveler, is that no other passengers wield really big serrated knives, and I have no problem fining the dumb fookers if they try to carry really big serrated knives onto an airplane.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12813</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12813</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not sure what kind of cake you&#039;re used to, but usually cake utensils are neither large nor serrated.  They&#039;re usually little wedge shaped things that, if wielded by a ninja, would still be harmless.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not sure what kind of cake you're used to, but usually cake utensils are neither large nor serrated.  They're usually little wedge shaped things that, if wielded by a ninja, would still be harmless.</p>
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		<title>By: Grumpy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bad_attitude_punishable/comment-page-1/#comment-12814</link>
		<dc:creator>Grumpy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5157#comment-12814</guid>
		<description>One of the problems with TSA is that they seem to make up the rules as they go along.  I fly frequently for business and have been through the security posts at airports all over the world. the ones in the U.S. are clearly the most absurd.  The events that stick in my mind is the TSA guy at Wahington Dulles who decided that my cigarette lighter was a dangerous weapon and confiscated it.  After clearing security I stopped at one of the kiosks in the concourse and bought another one.   Another one once told me that I had to take the strings off my guitar....

Now they&#039;re telling me I could be fined because one TSA person decided something was dangerous that no other TSA person would???  No wonder I&#039;m developing an attitude....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the problems with TSA is that they seem to make up the rules as they go along.  I fly frequently for business and have been through the security posts at airports all over the world. the ones in the U.S. are clearly the most absurd.  The events that stick in my mind is the TSA guy at Wahington Dulles who decided that my cigarette lighter was a dangerous weapon and confiscated it.  After clearing security I stopped at one of the kiosks in the concourse and bought another one.   Another one once told me that I had to take the strings off my guitar....</p>
<p>Now they're telling me I could be fined because one TSA person decided something was dangerous that no other TSA person would???  No wonder I'm developing an attitude....</p>
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