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	<title>Comments on: Bailout Compromise Reached</title>
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		<title>By: Consul-At-Arms</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515384</link>
		<dc:creator>Consul-At-Arms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 06:58:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515384</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve quoted you and &lt;a href=&quot;http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/09/re-bailout-compromise-reached.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;linked to you here&lt;/a&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've quoted you and <a href="http://consul-at-arms.blogspot.com/2008/09/re-bailout-compromise-reached.html" rel="nofollow">linked to you here</a>.</p>
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		<title>By: Nightly Ramble:Bailout Mania and minutiae; Take the gloves off, Senator; more &#124; BitsBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515301</link>
		<dc:creator>Nightly Ramble:Bailout Mania and minutiae; Take the gloves off, Senator; more &#124; BitsBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 20:07:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515301</guid>
		<description>[...] and for the last couple days I&#8217;m not at all happy abut the direction this thing is taking. Me at OTB this afternoon:  Yeah, but Bit, that&#8217;s not what I was responding to. What I was responding to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and for the last couple days I&#8217;m not at all happy abut the direction this thing is taking. Me at OTB this afternoon:  Yeah, but Bit, that&#8217;s not what I was responding to. What I was responding to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DMan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515202</link>
		<dc:creator>DMan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 13:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515202</guid>
		<description>Ragshaft, I don&#039;t get it.  Why do you bother to read intelligent sites like OTB?  You&#039;re obviously more comfortable with Rush Limbaugh talking points, does all the substance on OTB hurt your head?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ragshaft, I don't get it.  Why do you bother to read intelligent sites like OTB?  You're obviously more comfortable with Rush Limbaugh talking points, does all the substance on OTB hurt your head?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515197</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:28:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515197</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Yeah, but Bit, that&#039;s not what I was responding to. What I was responding to was your (kind of) hair-on-fire claim that this was the first step down the path to government wage controls for all of us. That&#039;s a stretch, no?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Frst step? Hardly.

Merely another along the way. 

The first step? That was &lt;em&gt;already&lt;/em&gt; taken when we accepted (Without anyone asking us) that the government has the right to decide who gets paid what.  No, the first step was taken when we accepted the idea that such would be a good thing, (for reasons we never quite defined)  if only the government could &quot;do soemting about it&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Yeah, but Bit, that's not what I was responding to. What I was responding to was your (kind of) hair-on-fire claim that this was the first step down the path to government wage controls for all of us. That's a stretch, no?</p></blockquote>
<p>Frst step? Hardly.</p>
<p>Merely another along the way. </p>
<p>The first step? That was <em>already</em> taken when we accepted (Without anyone asking us) that the government has the right to decide who gets paid what.  No, the first step was taken when we accepted the idea that such would be a good thing, (for reasons we never quite defined)  if only the government could "do soemting about it".</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515196</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 12:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515196</guid>
		<description>Yeah, but Bit, that&#039;s not what I was responding to. What I was responding to was your (kind of) hair-on-fire claim that this was the first step down the path to government wage controls for all of us. That&#039;s a stretch, no? Besides, as James indicates, any such provision will be largely symbolics, i.e., pretty damn small potatoes in the scheme of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, but Bit, that's not what I was responding to. What I was responding to was your (kind of) hair-on-fire claim that this was the first step down the path to government wage controls for all of us. That's a stretch, no? Besides, as James indicates, any such provision will be largely symbolics, i.e., pretty damn small potatoes in the scheme of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515184</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515184</guid>
		<description>Well, look, Sam...

&lt;a href=&quot;http://jerrypournelle.com/view/2008/Q3/view537.html#Sunday&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Jerry Pournelle:&lt;/a&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;Golden parachutes: we may detest them, but they are not the cause of the problem. And every one of the Democrats involved in this bailout benefited from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and every one of them was in favor of the CRA provisions requiring more and more sub-prime loans in order to increase home ownership.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
No kidding. We see where that led. As a direct result of that push, how many millions did Democrat cronies walk away with from Government sponsored entities like Fannie and Freddie? &lt;b&gt;Those&lt;/b&gt; were government&#039;s responsibility... not the income of those working for private concerns. 

And that the Democrats put that up so high on their list  in spite of the real issue, tells me that there&#039;s something they want out of that aspect, something of at least some psychological import; A reinforcement of socialist thought.... that success can only happen when government is running things.

Otherwise, why bother with it at all, since the numbers tell the story... that what CEO&#039;s get paid in the private sector really doesn&#039;t mean much, in the end?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, look, Sam...</p>
<p><a href="http://jerrypournelle.com/view/2008/Q3/view537.html#Sunday" rel="nofollow">Jerry Pournelle:</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Golden parachutes: we may detest them, but they are not the cause of the problem. And every one of the Democrats involved in this bailout benefited from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and every one of them was in favor of the CRA provisions requiring more and more sub-prime loans in order to increase home ownership.</p></blockquote>
<p>No kidding. We see where that led. As a direct result of that push, how many millions did Democrat cronies walk away with from Government sponsored entities like Fannie and Freddie? <b>Those</b> were government's responsibility... not the income of those working for private concerns. </p>
<p>And that the Democrats put that up so high on their list  in spite of the real issue, tells me that there's something they want out of that aspect, something of at least some psychological import; A reinforcement of socialist thought.... that success can only happen when government is running things.</p>
<p>Otherwise, why bother with it at all, since the numbers tell the story... that what CEO's get paid in the private sector really doesn't mean much, in the end?</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515183</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 03:10:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515183</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And I note you don&#039;t disagree, except by emotion.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Irony? What?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And I note you don't disagree, except by emotion.</p></blockquote>
<p>Irony? What?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515182</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:48:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515182</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Jesus, Bit, stop it. You&#039;re scaring me.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not happy about it, either, frankly, but there it is. And I note you don&#039;t disagree, except by emotion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Jesus, Bit, stop it. You're scaring me.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm not happy about it, either, frankly, but there it is. And I note you don't disagree, except by emotion.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515179</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 02:04:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515179</guid>
		<description>MaCain when asked if he would support the bailout: &quot;I&#039;d like to see the details, but hopefully, yes.&quot;

This from the man who just a few short days ago &quot;suspended&quot; his campaign so he could rush to the capital, take command, and save the economy.

My goodness...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MaCain when asked if he would support the bailout: "I'd like to see the details, but hopefully, yes."</p>
<p>This from the man who just a few short days ago "suspended" his campaign so he could rush to the capital, take command, and save the economy.</p>
<p>My goodness...</p>
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		<title>By: sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515178</link>
		<dc:creator>sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:57:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515178</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What such legislation does do, however is install the camel&#039;s nose firmly under the tentflap in terms of government dictation of what anyone will be paid for a given task... something of which Marx would loudly approve of.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jesus, Bit, stop it. You&#039;re scaring me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What such legislation does do, however is install the camel's nose firmly under the tentflap in terms of government dictation of what anyone will be paid for a given task... something of which Marx would loudly approve of.</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus, Bit, stop it. You're scaring me.</p>
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		<title>By: inhumans99</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515177</link>
		<dc:creator>inhumans99</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 01:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515177</guid>
		<description>Geez, Zelsdorf...give it a rest.  Your man McCain will most likely lose to the &#039;cretin&#039; you loathe so much because he ran a crap campaign, and picked a VP that that would tell folks that she knows that 2 + 2 = 4, and yet, folks would still be highly suspicious that someone fed her the answer via an earpiece.

By the way, folks can accuse Obama of many things, but being a cretin...yeah, you keep telling yourself Obama is not operating with a full deck of cards, whatever keeps you happy and lets you sleep at night.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geez, Zelsdorf...give it a rest.  Your man McCain will most likely lose to the 'cretin' you loathe so much because he ran a crap campaign, and picked a VP that that would tell folks that she knows that 2 + 2 = 4, and yet, folks would still be highly suspicious that someone fed her the answer via an earpiece.</p>
<p>By the way, folks can accuse Obama of many things, but being a cretin...yeah, you keep telling yourself Obama is not operating with a full deck of cards, whatever keeps you happy and lets you sleep at night.</p>
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		<title>By: Web Smith</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515176</link>
		<dc:creator>Web Smith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 00:44:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515176</guid>
		<description>The first real estate deal the government makes when they get into the business is to buy $700 billion worth of bad mortgages and hope they go up. In the meantime, the government sells $400 billion worth of good WaMu assets to the Rockefellers for less than $2 billion. If this is typical of the deals the government is going to make now that they&#039;re in private business, we can kiss $700 billion good by.

This was caused by the government being involved with private industry.

http://ewebsmith.com/finance/thecause.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The first real estate deal the government makes when they get into the business is to buy $700 billion worth of bad mortgages and hope they go up. In the meantime, the government sells $400 billion worth of good WaMu assets to the Rockefellers for less than $2 billion. If this is typical of the deals the government is going to make now that they're in private business, we can kiss $700 billion good by.</p>
<p>This was caused by the government being involved with private industry.</p>
<p><a href="http://ewebsmith.com/finance/thecause.html" rel="nofollow">http://ewebsmith.com/finance/thecause.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515174</link>
		<dc:creator>Zelsdorf Ragshaft III</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515174</guid>
		<description>I know this is off topic, but I have been watching the news all day.  It is depressing.  Obamites all over the place spewing falsehoods in machinegun like fashion.  If their lips are moving they are lying.  It is impossible for me to believe people have fallen for the campus bull shitter.  This dude, Obama, is all talk and no action.  He takes credit for the acts of others, but a fact search shows he has accomplished very, very little.  Nothing as a community organizer.  Nothing of value when he was CEO of the Ayers led Chicago Annenberg Challenge.  He got himself elected to the Illinois State Senate.  What did he do there?  Nothing.  His mentor, president of the state senate gave him cover and credit for things he had nothing to do with.  He voted present over a hundred times!  With this background and no real competition, he ran for U.S. Senate, once again based on promises not actions.  After just a short period of time in the U.S. Senate.  Enough time to earmark a fortune and collect a lot of grease, he is running for the Presidency of the United States and he could win.  Based on what?  I am sure any thinking individual could see through this fake yet many support someone who, no one from his past has come forward to stand up for him.  We do not even know what he believes in.  If judged by his associates, he hates America and the change he has in mind will be ugly.  I cannot imagine this cretin in charge of the justice department.  He intends to steal your money and give it to those who have not earned it because of what Rev. Wright told him and is what he believes is just.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know this is off topic, but I have been watching the news all day.  It is depressing.  Obamites all over the place spewing falsehoods in machinegun like fashion.  If their lips are moving they are lying.  It is impossible for me to believe people have fallen for the campus bull shitter.  This dude, Obama, is all talk and no action.  He takes credit for the acts of others, but a fact search shows he has accomplished very, very little.  Nothing as a community organizer.  Nothing of value when he was CEO of the Ayers led Chicago Annenberg Challenge.  He got himself elected to the Illinois State Senate.  What did he do there?  Nothing.  His mentor, president of the state senate gave him cover and credit for things he had nothing to do with.  He voted present over a hundred times!  With this background and no real competition, he ran for U.S. Senate, once again based on promises not actions.  After just a short period of time in the U.S. Senate.  Enough time to earmark a fortune and collect a lot of grease, he is running for the Presidency of the United States and he could win.  Based on what?  I am sure any thinking individual could see through this fake yet many support someone who, no one from his past has come forward to stand up for him.  We do not even know what he believes in.  If judged by his associates, he hates America and the change he has in mind will be ugly.  I cannot imagine this cretin in charge of the justice department.  He intends to steal your money and give it to those who have not earned it because of what Rev. Wright told him and is what he believes is just.</p>
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		<title>By: Davebo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515173</link>
		<dc:creator>Davebo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 23:28:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515173</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In private corporations, that&#039;s neither the concern of government, nor of anyone who doesn&#039;t have a voting interest outside that company.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Great, their lousy paper is then no longer a concern of the government, nor anyone who doesn&#039;t have a voting interest.

If you don&#039;t want your parents complaining about how you handle your finances, don&#039;t borrow money from them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In private corporations, that's neither the concern of government, nor of anyone who doesn't have a voting interest outside that company.</p></blockquote>
<p>Great, their lousy paper is then no longer a concern of the government, nor anyone who doesn't have a voting interest.</p>
<p>If you don't want your parents complaining about how you handle your finances, don't borrow money from them.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_compromise_reached/comment-page-1/#comment-515164</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Sep 2008 18:04:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25503#comment-515164</guid>
		<description>I believe Prof. Bainbridge said that dealing with executive pay raised takings clause issues.  I think it depends on a few things that we don&#039;t know about individual compensation arrangements, such as whether the compensation is vested or not, and whether the government action was prospective or retroactive.

Corporate exectuives are not the corporations.  The corporation cannot voluntarily waive the rights of its employees, whether they be janitors or CEOs.

I haven&#039;t seen actual language, but the earlier language punted the issue to Treasury, who would have to create rules that passed Constitutional muster.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe Prof. Bainbridge said that dealing with executive pay raised takings clause issues.  I think it depends on a few things that we don't know about individual compensation arrangements, such as whether the compensation is vested or not, and whether the government action was prospective or retroactive.</p>
<p>Corporate exectuives are not the corporations.  The corporation cannot voluntarily waive the rights of its employees, whether they be janitors or CEOs.</p>
<p>I haven't seen actual language, but the earlier language punted the issue to Treasury, who would have to create rules that passed Constitutional muster.</p>
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