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	<title>Comments on: Bailout Politics (Updated)</title>
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		<title>By: Pug</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515362</link>
		<dc:creator>Pug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 01:25:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515362</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;leaves me mystified over McArdle&#039;s anger about the cap gains tax cut&lt;/em&gt;

I&#039;m not so sure a capital gains tax cut is all that relevant in a stock market that is down over 30%.  What good is a cap gains tax cut supposed to do?

Right now capital gains taxes are about the last thing investors are thinking about.  Paying capital gains taxes on profits really isn&#039;t that important when you are trying not to lose all your principal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>leaves me mystified over McArdle's anger about the cap gains tax cut</em></p>
<p>I'm not so sure a capital gains tax cut is all that relevant in a stock market that is down over 30%.  What good is a cap gains tax cut supposed to do?</p>
<p>Right now capital gains taxes are about the last thing investors are thinking about.  Paying capital gains taxes on profits really isn't that important when you are trying not to lose all your principal.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515350</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:00:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515350</guid>
		<description>Nobody knows the extent of the problem.  Many of the people who say the sky is falling are precisely those who stand to benefit from a big bailout.  

Despite the horror stories we are being told, people can still get loans (if they are credit-worthy).  The sky hasn&#039;t fallen YET.  Yes, the stock market dropped sharply today. But has everyone forgotten last Friday?  Big moves are temporary. This market moves in both directions. 

Who can we believe?  Are our leaders exaggerating?  Do they even understand the problem? Someone is playing fast politics with the US economy.  Maybe on both sides.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nobody knows the extent of the problem.  Many of the people who say the sky is falling are precisely those who stand to benefit from a big bailout.  </p>
<p>Despite the horror stories we are being told, people can still get loans (if they are credit-worthy).  The sky hasn't fallen YET.  Yes, the stock market dropped sharply today. But has everyone forgotten last Friday?  Big moves are temporary. This market moves in both directions. </p>
<p>Who can we believe?  Are our leaders exaggerating?  Do they even understand the problem? Someone is playing fast politics with the US economy.  Maybe on both sides.</p>
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		<title>By: charles austin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515349</link>
		<dc:creator>charles austin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:52:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515349</guid>
		<description>One of my bosses once told me that you can&#039;t call someone ugly all week and then expect them to accept your invitation to the dance on Saturday night.

You go Nancy.  Just go.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of my bosses once told me that you can't call someone ugly all week and then expect them to accept your invitation to the dance on Saturday night.</p>
<p>You go Nancy.  Just go.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515344</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515344</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;It won&#039;t help them stem the growth of the Democratic majority in a little over a month or slow the GOP&#039;s slide into insignificance.&lt;/i&gt;

See I don&#039;t buy the concept that the GOP will become insignificant.  I recall talks about the democrats becoming insignificant.  The reality is that the GOP may get smacked around this election cycle-I actually don&#039;t even think it is a &quot;may&quot; I think it is a &quot;will&quot; but when the US taxpayer gets a taste of the democrats controlling both houses of congress and the white house, the GOP will once again become far more signficant just like the democratic party became once again more significant.

It is cyclical, and the reality is that one party gets control, mucks it up, and the other party gets handed the control until they muck it up.

You might have confidence that the dems won&#039;t muck it up, but the dem leadership through out this crisis pretty much tells me flat out that they won&#039;t be able to lead as long as the leaders they currently have in charge remain there.

Pelosi&#039;s leadership on this issue was an epic fail-either she really is that poor a leader, or she intentially failed because she wants the economy in the tank, which is even scarier than thinking she was just stupid.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>It won't help them stem the growth of the Democratic majority in a little over a month or slow the GOP's slide into insignificance.</i></p>
<p>See I don't buy the concept that the GOP will become insignificant.  I recall talks about the democrats becoming insignificant.  The reality is that the GOP may get smacked around this election cycle-I actually don't even think it is a "may" I think it is a "will" but when the US taxpayer gets a taste of the democrats controlling both houses of congress and the white house, the GOP will once again become far more signficant just like the democratic party became once again more significant.</p>
<p>It is cyclical, and the reality is that one party gets control, mucks it up, and the other party gets handed the control until they muck it up.</p>
<p>You might have confidence that the dems won't muck it up, but the dem leadership through out this crisis pretty much tells me flat out that they won't be able to lead as long as the leaders they currently have in charge remain there.</p>
<p>Pelosi's leadership on this issue was an epic fail-either she really is that poor a leader, or she intentially failed because she wants the economy in the tank, which is even scarier than thinking she was just stupid.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515340</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:24:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515340</guid>
		<description>I have little doubt that the line of thought you&#039;re following, just me, played a role in the votes of the Republican refuseniks.  It won&#039;t help them stem the growth of the Democratic majority in a little over a month or slow the GOP&#039;s slide into insignificance.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have little doubt that the line of thought you're following, just me, played a role in the votes of the Republican refuseniks.  It won't help them stem the growth of the Democratic majority in a little over a month or slow the GOP's slide into insignificance.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515339</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:07:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515339</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Voting down a bill whose original form was proposed by a Republican administration and which had bipartisan support effectively indemnifies Democrats against blame for the fallout&lt;/i&gt;

I would point out that the GOP house members weren&#039;t on board with the administrations propositions either.

If bipartisan support was needed maybe a little more bipartisanship out of the democrats would have been in order.  I think the WH was and still is willing to sign almost any bill whose intent is to help the problem (note I said intent, because there are no guarantees that there is anyting congress can do to help).

If it is bipartisanship that is desired, Pelosi needs to take the lead and act in a bipartisan way-to date i haven&#039;t seen that from her.

However, no matter what I do think the GOP will get all the blame on this one, but then they were already getting the blame anyway, even though the history indicates a big part of the problem was the community reinvestment act and requirements to extend high risk loans-and a whole lot of denials from well funded democrats that there was absolutely nothing wrong with Fannie or Freddie.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Voting down a bill whose original form was proposed by a Republican administration and which had bipartisan support effectively indemnifies Democrats against blame for the fallout</i></p>
<p>I would point out that the GOP house members weren't on board with the administrations propositions either.</p>
<p>If bipartisan support was needed maybe a little more bipartisanship out of the democrats would have been in order.  I think the WH was and still is willing to sign almost any bill whose intent is to help the problem (note I said intent, because there are no guarantees that there is anyting congress can do to help).</p>
<p>If it is bipartisanship that is desired, Pelosi needs to take the lead and act in a bipartisan way-to date i haven't seen that from her.</p>
<p>However, no matter what I do think the GOP will get all the blame on this one, but then they were already getting the blame anyway, even though the history indicates a big part of the problem was the community reinvestment act and requirements to extend high risk loans-and a whole lot of denials from well funded democrats that there was absolutely nothing wrong with Fannie or Freddie.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515325</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:57:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515325</guid>
		<description>Fair or not, the Republican party will take the blame for whatever bad results can be attributed to not passing the plan.

Note that Rasmussen polls are starting to show growing support for the plan.  Politics is difficult.  The public will hate you on Friday for having your position on Monday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fair or not, the Republican party will take the blame for whatever bad results can be attributed to not passing the plan.</p>
<p>Note that Rasmussen polls are starting to show growing support for the plan.  Politics is difficult.  The public will hate you on Friday for having your position on Monday.</p>
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		<title>By: capital L</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515324</link>
		<dc:creator>capital L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:57:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515324</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;Voting down a bill whose original form was proposed by a Republican administration and which had bipartisan support effectively indemnifies Democrats against blame for the fallout&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I don&#039;t follow.  The blame obviously isn&#039;t entirely on them, but there were democrats who voted against the bill as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>"Voting down a bill whose original form was proposed by a Republican administration and which had bipartisan support effectively indemnifies Democrats against blame for the fallout"</p></blockquote>
<p>I don't follow.  The blame obviously isn't entirely on them, but there were democrats who voted against the bill as well.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515323</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:54:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515323</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Which does make me suspect even more that Pelosi wanted it to die in a way she could lay it at the GOP&#039;s feet.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I guess that&#039;s all the GOP has at this point. It will play to the base. No further.

The speed with which McCain is sprinting away from the bailout he tried so hard to own is kind of impressive. That&#039;s leadership you can time with a stopwatch...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Which does make me suspect even more that Pelosi wanted it to die in a way she could lay it at the GOP's feet.</p></blockquote>
<p>I guess that's all the GOP has at this point. It will play to the base. No further.</p>
<p>The speed with which McCain is sprinting away from the bailout he tried so hard to own is kind of impressive. That's leadership you can time with a stopwatch...</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515320</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:41:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515320</guid>
		<description>Some birthing pain is likely a good thing.  This is a big deal and should be stressful for all parties.  Working it over top to bottom will likely create a better bill and better results.

Now the time for serious people to step up.  Speaker Pelosi has ruined her chances for such a role.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some birthing pain is likely a good thing.  This is a big deal and should be stressful for all parties.  Working it over top to bottom will likely create a better bill and better results.</p>
<p>Now the time for serious people to step up.  Speaker Pelosi has ruined her chances for such a role.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515317</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:27:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515317</guid>
		<description>Which does make me suspect even more that Pelosi wanted it to die in a way she could lay it at the GOP&#039;s feet.

Why would a speaker bring a bill to the floor when 40% of her own party is going to vote No and much of the opposition party is in opposition?  Either she can&#039;t count votes, she knew it would fail and wanted it to, or she is an idiot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Which does make me suspect even more that Pelosi wanted it to die in a way she could lay it at the GOP's feet.</p>
<p>Why would a speaker bring a bill to the floor when 40% of her own party is going to vote No and much of the opposition party is in opposition?  Either she can't count votes, she knew it would fail and wanted it to, or she is an idiot.</p>
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		<title>By: PJens</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515310</link>
		<dc:creator>PJens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 21:00:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515310</guid>
		<description>Not enough democrats voted for this bill. To believe that the failure is because republicans &quot;killed it&quot;, is simply false. Speaker Pelosi ought to get her House majority minions in order. Speaking with better tone before a vote would not hurt either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not enough democrats voted for this bill. To believe that the failure is because republicans "killed it", is simply false. Speaker Pelosi ought to get her House majority minions in order. Speaking with better tone before a vote would not hurt either.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515297</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:57:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515297</guid>
		<description>Completely agree James which leaves me mystified over McArdle&#039;s anger about the cap gains tax cut.  Removing that could limit the amount of money for a bailout if one is still necessary.  It is almost as if she has turned into some sort of central planning fanatic or something.  I dunno.

Klein...well I&#039;ve never liked him.  He strikes me as a person with no principles and out of his depth when it comes to economic policy and even health policy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Completely agree James which leaves me mystified over McArdle's anger about the cap gains tax cut.  Removing that could limit the amount of money for a bailout if one is still necessary.  It is almost as if she has turned into some sort of central planning fanatic or something.  I dunno.</p>
<p>Klein...well I've never liked him.  He strikes me as a person with no principles and out of his depth when it comes to economic policy and even health policy.</p>
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		<title>By: Stormy Dragon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515296</link>
		<dc:creator>Stormy Dragon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:56:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515296</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t this something of begging the question?  This is only a political failure if you think passing the bailout bill was the correct course of action.  Which clearly a large portion of the electorate does not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn't this something of begging the question?  This is only a political failure if you think passing the bailout bill was the correct course of action.  Which clearly a large portion of the electorate does not.</p>
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		<title>By: Anon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bailout_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-515295</link>
		<dc:creator>Anon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 19:56:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=25588#comment-515295</guid>
		<description>I agree that maybe this is not the right plan, or maybe it is a little bit premature. But the thing I&#039;m disgusted with is why they can&#039;t craft something that they know will get enough votes before bringing it to a vote.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree that maybe this is not the right plan, or maybe it is a little bit premature. But the thing I'm disgusted with is why they can't craft something that they know will get enough votes before bringing it to a vote.</p>
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