<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Biofuels Cause Global Warming</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 09:20:03 -0600</lastBuildDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5</generator>
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: TJIT</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277724</link>
		<dc:creator>TJIT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:31:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277724</guid>
		<description>Saul,

The problem is most, if not all, of the alternatives proposed to replace petroleum either end up 

1.  Using more petroleum to make then they replace or

2.  Even if they aren&#039;t energy negative can&#039;t replace enough petroleum to make any impact on energy security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saul,</p>
<p>The problem is most, if not all, of the alternatives proposed to replace petroleum either end up </p>
<p>1.  Using more petroleum to make then they replace or</p>
<p>2.  Even if they aren't energy negative can't replace enough petroleum to make any impact on energy security.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TJIT</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277719</link>
		<dc:creator>TJIT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:28:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277719</guid>
		<description>Responding to global warming has provided abundant   rent seeking opportunities that both businesses and activist groups have both exploited.   

An example of this is Robert&#039;s comment 

&lt;blockquote&gt;The simplest solution is for people to eat less meat - especially cow meat. &lt;/blockquote&gt;This comment shows a stunning ignorance of the root causes of environmental destruction, which is subsidies for grain production and mandates for biofuel usage.

Furthermore the comments on cow meat show even more ignorance by completely ignoring the fact that ranchers, raising cattle, have preserved massive amounts of carbon sinks in the form on natural range land habitats.

If you really are interested in preserving the environment push to end ag subsidies and biofuel mandates.  

Furthermore, if you are really interested in eating ethically either.

1.  Go vegan

2.  If you can&#039;t go vegan leave beef in your diet.

Cattle have far better quality of life then animals used to produce any other source of animal protein and it is the most ethical choice for animal protein in a diet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Responding to global warming has provided abundant   rent seeking opportunities that both businesses and activist groups have both exploited.   </p>
<p>An example of this is Robert's comment </p>
<blockquote><p>The simplest solution is for people to eat less meat - especially cow meat. </p></blockquote>
<p>This comment shows a stunning ignorance of the root causes of environmental destruction, which is subsidies for grain production and mandates for biofuel usage.</p>
<p>Furthermore the comments on cow meat show even more ignorance by completely ignoring the fact that ranchers, raising cattle, have preserved massive amounts of carbon sinks in the form on natural range land habitats.</p>
<p>If you really are interested in preserving the environment push to end ag subsidies and biofuel mandates.  </p>
<p>Furthermore, if you are really interested in eating ethically either.</p>
<p>1.  Go vegan</p>
<p>2.  If you can't go vegan leave beef in your diet.</p>
<p>Cattle have far better quality of life then animals used to produce any other source of animal protein and it is the most ethical choice for animal protein in a diet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Saul Wall</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277717</link>
		<dc:creator>Saul Wall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277717</guid>
		<description>Does this mean that biofuels from algae grown in deserts and &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/02/green-star-products-grows-biodiesel-algae-in-cold-montana-winter/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;during the winter&lt;/a&gt;, agriculture and forest product waste, sewage, trash and other sources should be discouraged? If a market for biofuels is established will it matter that some nations get theirs from non CO2 producing sources and others don&#039;t? Given that the &quot;CO2=climate change&quot; hypothesis is weak, should we be discouraged from attempting a means of energy security that &lt;strong&gt;may&lt;/strong&gt; be environmentally dangerous so as to maintain an insecure energy system which we are more strongly suspicious of being environmentally dangerous?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does this mean that biofuels from algae grown in deserts and <a href="http://www.autobloggreen.com/2008/02/02/green-star-products-grows-biodiesel-algae-in-cold-montana-winter/" rel="nofollow">during the winter</a>, agriculture and forest product waste, sewage, trash and other sources should be discouraged? If a market for biofuels is established will it matter that some nations get theirs from non CO2 producing sources and others don't? Given that the "CO2=climate change" hypothesis is weak, should we be discouraged from attempting a means of energy security that <strong>may</strong> be environmentally dangerous so as to maintain an insecure energy system which we are more strongly suspicious of being environmentally dangerous?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: TJIT</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277708</link>
		<dc:creator>TJIT</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 02:09:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277708</guid>
		<description>Ethanol production based on switchgrass is best described by the software industry term &quot;vaporware&quot;  , lots of promises and no delivery.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ethanol production based on switchgrass is best described by the software industry term "vaporware"  , lots of promises and no delivery.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Thats What Happens When You Listen To Environmentalists &#171; Unclemeat</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277698</link>
		<dc:creator>Thats What Happens When You Listen To Environmentalists &#171; Unclemeat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Feb 2008 01:59:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277698</guid>
		<description>[...] NYT Via OTB [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] NYT Via OTB [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: plane</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277478</link>
		<dc:creator>plane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:54:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277478</guid>
		<description>This is news? People didn&#039;t already know this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is news? People didn't already know this?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Neo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277468</link>
		<dc:creator>Neo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:32:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277468</guid>
		<description>&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/science/earth/08wbiofuels.html?scp=1&amp;sq=biofuel&amp;st=nyt&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This&lt;/a&gt; has been coming for a while now.

Just a few weeks ago the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/commission-scientists-blast-eu-biofuels-policy/article-169668&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;EU Commission&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6949861.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;got a report&lt;/a&gt; &lt;a href=&quot;http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7186380.stm&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;saying the same thing&lt;/a&gt;, but found it politically distasteful, so they did their best to ignore it.

I guess it was one of those &quot;&lt;strong&gt;&lt;em&gt;inconvenient truths&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/strong&gt;&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/08/science/earth/08wbiofuels.html?scp=1&amp;sq=biofuel&amp;st=nyt" rel="nofollow">This</a> has been coming for a while now.</p>
<p>Just a few weeks ago the <a href="http://www.euractiv.com/en/transport/commission-scientists-blast-eu-biofuels-policy/article-169668" rel="nofollow">EU Commission</a> <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/6949861.stm" rel="nofollow">got a report</a> <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7186380.stm" rel="nofollow">saying the same thing</a>, but found it politically distasteful, so they did their best to ignore it.</p>
<p>I guess it was one of those "<strong><em>inconvenient truths</em></strong>".</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Buster Bunns</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277460</link>
		<dc:creator>Buster Bunns</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277460</guid>
		<description>Global warming is a scam and a farce but the need for cheap energy is not. Better that we make the push for nuclear and geothermal power, fuel cells and cheap hydrogen than to continue down the path of biofuel development.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Global warming is a scam and a farce but the need for cheap energy is not. Better that we make the push for nuclear and geothermal power, fuel cells and cheap hydrogen than to continue down the path of biofuel development.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277459</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 20:05:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277459</guid>
		<description>Steve and davod,

As Alex pointed out it was not the scientists promoting bio-fuels, particularly not corn as a resource for bio-fuels.  Few who do not stand to directly profit from corn as bio-fuel source (or those who represent them) think it is a good idea.    

It has been obvious from the outset to all who have chosen to educate themselves on the subject that the carbon footprint benefits of bio-fuels and environmental costs is highly dependent on crop choice and land use considerations.  For instance, most moderately knowledgeable people knew from the beginning that converting Indonesian and Malaysian rain forest to palm oil plantations was a net negative for GHG emissions and  a larger net negative for the environment.  These articles and others did not create that understanding, rather they refined it.

The abstract of one of the two articles* is instructive.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Increasing energy use, climate change, and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from fossil fuels make switching to low-carbon fuels a high priority. Biofuels are a potential low-carbon energy source, but whether biofuels offer carbon savings depends on how they are produced. Converting rainforests, peatlands, savannas, or grasslands to produce food-based biofuels in Brazil, Southeast Asia, and the United States creates a ‘biofuel carbon debt’ by releasing 17 to 420 times more CO2 than the annual greenhouse gas (GHG) reductions these biofuels provide by displacing fossil fuels. In contrast, biofuels made from waste biomass or from biomass grown on abandoned agricultural lands planted with perennials incur little or no carbon debt and offer immediate and sustained GHG advantages.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The abstract** of another interesting &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/5805/1598?hits=10&amp;RESULTFORMAT=&amp;FIRSTINDEX=0&amp;maxtoshow=&amp;HITS=10&amp;fulltext=tilman+biofuel&amp;searchid=1&amp;resourcetype=HWCIT&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;article&lt;/a&gt; on the subject says, 
&lt;blockquote&gt;Biofuels derived from low-input high-diversity (LIHD) mixtures of native grassland perennials can provide more usable energy, greater greenhouse gas reductions, and less agrichemical pollution per hectare than can corn grain ethanol or soybean biodiesel. High-diversity grasslands had increasingly higher bioenergy yields that were 238% greater than monoculture yields after a decade. LIHD biofuels are carbon negative because net ecosystem carbon dioxide sequestration (4.4 megagram hectare–1 year–1 of carbon dioxide in soil and roots) exceeds fossil carbon dioxide release during biofuel production (0.32 megagram hectare–1 year–1). Moreover, LIHD biofuels can be produced on agriculturally degraded lands and thus need to neither displace food production nor cause loss of biodiversity via habitat destruction.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

In this case, as with global climate change, the science should be our guide.  You seem to agree that science should be our guide re: ag subsidies for bio-fuels, why not for climate change?

*  Fargione, J. el al (2008). Land Clearing and the Biofuel Carbon Debt. Science, Feb 8, 2008. (subscription required)
** full text requires subscription</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Steve and davod,</p>
<p>As Alex pointed out it was not the scientists promoting bio-fuels, particularly not corn as a resource for bio-fuels.  Few who do not stand to directly profit from corn as bio-fuel source (or those who represent them) think it is a good idea.    </p>
<p>It has been obvious from the outset to all who have chosen to educate themselves on the subject that the carbon footprint benefits of bio-fuels and environmental costs is highly dependent on crop choice and land use considerations.  For instance, most moderately knowledgeable people knew from the beginning that converting Indonesian and Malaysian rain forest to palm oil plantations was a net negative for GHG emissions and  a larger net negative for the environment.  These articles and others did not create that understanding, rather they refined it.</p>
<p>The abstract of one of the two articles* is instructive.</p>
<blockquote><p>Increasing energy use, climate change, and carbon dioxide (CO2) emissions from fossil fuels make switching to low-carbon fuels a high priority. Biofuels are a potential low-carbon energy source, but whether biofuels offer carbon savings depends on how they are produced. Converting rainforests, peatlands, savannas, or grasslands to produce food-based biofuels in Brazil, Southeast Asia, and the United States creates a ‘biofuel carbon debt&rsquo; by releasing 17 to 420 times more CO2 than the annual greenhouse gas (GHG) reductions these biofuels provide by displacing fossil fuels. In contrast, biofuels made from waste biomass or from biomass grown on abandoned agricultural lands planted with perennials incur little or no carbon debt and offer immediate and sustained GHG advantages.</p></blockquote>
<p>The abstract** of another interesting <a href="http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/314/5805/1598?hits=10&amp;RESULTFORMAT=&amp;FIRSTINDEX=0&amp;maxtoshow=&amp;HITS=10&amp;fulltext=tilman+biofuel&amp;searchid=1&amp;resourcetype=HWCIT" rel="nofollow">article</a> on the subject says, </p>
<blockquote><p>Biofuels derived from low-input high-diversity (LIHD) mixtures of native grassland perennials can provide more usable energy, greater greenhouse gas reductions, and less agrichemical pollution per hectare than can corn grain ethanol or soybean biodiesel. High-diversity grasslands had increasingly higher bioenergy yields that were 238% greater than monoculture yields after a decade. LIHD biofuels are carbon negative because net ecosystem carbon dioxide sequestration (4.4 megagram hectare–1 year–1 of carbon dioxide in soil and roots) exceeds fossil carbon dioxide release during biofuel production (0.32 megagram hectare–1 year–1). Moreover, LIHD biofuels can be produced on agriculturally degraded lands and thus need to neither displace food production nor cause loss of biodiversity via habitat destruction.</p></blockquote>
<p>In this case, as with global climate change, the science should be our guide.  You seem to agree that science should be our guide re: ag subsidies for bio-fuels, why not for climate change?</p>
<p>*  Fargione, J. el al (2008). Land Clearing and the Biofuel Carbon Debt. Science, Feb 8, 2008. (subscription required)<br />
** full text requires subscription</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Are Biofuels Speeding Up Climate Change? &#171; Chris Wren</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277449</link>
		<dc:creator>Are Biofuels Speeding Up Climate Change? &#171; Chris Wren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 19:34:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277449</guid>
		<description>[...] most of which are dependent on the market value of corn. It wouldn&#8217;t be the first time a cure turned out to be worse than the disease. I don&#8217;t see why we&#8217;re even bothering with a fuel source as inefficient as corn [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] most of which are dependent on the market value of corn. It wouldn&#8217;t be the first time a cure turned out to be worse than the disease. I don&#8217;t see why we&#8217;re even bothering with a fuel source as inefficient as corn [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: guy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277431</link>
		<dc:creator>guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:37:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277431</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Not to mention the fact that we’re converting a cheap, nutritious food source into an expensive, inefficient energy source and thus raising the price of the former.&lt;/i&gt;

Aren&#039;t corn prices artifically, harmfully low as it is?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Not to mention the fact that we&rsquo;re converting a cheap, nutritious food source into an expensive, inefficient energy source and thus raising the price of the former.</i></p>
<p>Aren't corn prices artifically, harmfully low as it is?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277419</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 18:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277419</guid>
		<description>The simplest solution is for people to eat less meat - especially cow meat.  But that will take a lot of convincing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The simplest solution is for people to eat less meat - especially cow meat.  But that will take a lot of convincing.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: AngryJed</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277414</link>
		<dc:creator>AngryJed</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:57:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277414</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad this is finally getting out in the mainstream. there have been whispers from those in the know for a while yet it goes against the green lobby. So not only will corn ethanol raise our food prices and make corn on the cob a luxury - it could make things worse environmentally.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm glad this is finally getting out in the mainstream. there have been whispers from those in the know for a while yet it goes against the green lobby. So not only will corn ethanol raise our food prices and make corn on the cob a luxury - it could make things worse environmentally.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277399</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 17:31:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277399</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Triumph, I&#039;m not sure than encouraging Brazil to produce more sugar cane is that great an idea. Although Lulu has rejected the idea so far, if the demand gets high enough the temptation to start clearing rainforest will rise, too.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dave,  I agree with your assessment--as well as our invocation of the switchgrass issue.

The major point being that we should look at what the reality of the bipartisan love affair with ethanol--its largely a giveaway to profitable companies with questionable positive affects on the environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Triumph, I'm not sure than encouraging Brazil to produce more sugar cane is that great an idea. Although Lulu has rejected the idea so far, if the demand gets high enough the temptation to start clearing rainforest will rise, too.</p></blockquote>
<p>Dave,  I agree with your assessment--as well as our invocation of the switchgrass issue.</p>
<p>The major point being that we should look at what the reality of the bipartisan love affair with ethanol--its largely a giveaway to profitable companies with questionable positive affects on the environment.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/comment-page-1/#comment-277380</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Feb 2008 16:23:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/02/biofuels_cause_global_warming_/#comment-277380</guid>
		<description>&quot;Since everyone &quot;knew&quot; bio-fuels were a good idea and the &quot;science was settled&#039;

Seems like this statement could be used for another core belief.

Since everyone &quot;knew&quot; Global-warming was a good idea and the &quot;science was settled</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Since everyone "knew" bio-fuels were a good idea and the "science was settled'</p>
<p>Seems like this statement could be used for another core belief.</p>
<p>Since everyone "knew" Global-warming was a good idea and the "science was settled</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
