I'm not Dutch, by the way, but a Brit. Whoops, not an American, Herb. Sorry about that.

Anyway, given that this post is about an ethics issue and not about Amsterdam or NL vs anything else, I'd just like to add my two Eurocents worth by saying I really cannot see where there is any ethics issue given the open and detailed disclosure about the trip.

Looking forward to your take about Amsterdam and reading what you have to say.

The "periods of extreme weather" are few and far between. The recent rains have not precipitated any of these sewage overflows and we are well over 180% of normal.

This is not an ongoing problem of pollution flowing into the Rogue.

I'm on Table Rock Road just south of the river.

I live in Shady Grove (Jackson County)

WHoops! Make that Shady COVE! All this talk of Amsterdam has got me reaching for the dutchie this afternoon!

I don’t know who the person is posting about the Rogue river but I am presently less than five miles from it as I post.

Dude, I don't know where in the world you are, but I live in Shady Grove (Jackson County) and I would suggest that you call Mike Curry, the director for Emergency Management for the County. He's been quoted all over the news as saying thousands of gallons of raw sewage have flowed in the river during periods of extreme weather and this is primarily due to chronic problems with the city's waste treatment facility.

Actually, Mike is going to be presenting some data on the extent of the problem in tomorrow's work session for the Board of Commissioners. They meet @ 9:00am in Medford. AFter the torrential rains late last month, the county has finally realized they need a Natural Hazard Mitigation Plan. I would encourage you to go there tomorrow and ask Mike yourself, if you don't believe it.

Polluted? Wherever you are getting your information you should recheck it. The rogue is about as pristine as it has ever been. Salmon, Steelhead, and Trout are abundant and river recreation is booming. The Rogue is fine.

I guess environmentalist like to spread rumors about mankind's pollution. Say it often enough, loud enough and pretty soon it's taken as fact. Unless someone happens to know the facts.

As for the Dutch, I don't know and don't really care. I doubt they care about me very much either. The original post seemed to be a query about the ethics of accepting the trip. Given full disclosure of the conditions attached and motives surrounding it I can see no convincing argument against it.

I judge others by the way they are and not by what you think should be the standard. Your "saying" does not have the whole truth in it. I have had dealings with many, many dutch companies and the people associated with those companies over a period of many years. While it is true that there are those who have the utmost in business ethics, there were many more that would lie to you at the drop of a hat. I found that those who have never been to the US do not believe you when you tell how things are here in the US, (Prices you pay for goods and services, the size of your home, the car you drive, as well as most things we have here and take for granted. The common phrase there is "I know all about America" while in truth they know very little. It seems that they have a mentality of "I am superior to you" and you are nothing because they have culture. I used to laugh at them for thier stupidity. At any rate, I think you know precisely what I mean and your "excuses" for their impolite and untruthful attitude shows.

I woulda snapped it up in a heartbeat... damn you Henry Copeland, why didn't you think of your old pal Digger?!?

I am confident that James can make up his own mind about the country and it's population. Though I love my country dearly we are far from perfect so it depends a bit on whom he and his wife meet too. And of course 'honest and straightforward' can quite easily be felt as 'rude and impolite' if one is used to less outspoken communication. On the whole it is safe to assume that Dutch people say what they mean and mean what they say - with rarely a double bottom or hidden meaning.

Herb: we have a saying "zoals de waard is vertrouwd hij zijn gasten", which translates as "as the innkeeper is, he trusts his quests to be" (you measure other people's cloth by your own yard ?).

And mr/mrs Phillips: if we have to be one of the Star Trek stereotypes it would be more Ferengi than Borg I'm afraid :)

James: Februari is likely to be cold, so inside things are a better choice than outside things. If you tell me what kind of things you and your wife like, I'll be glad to mail some recommendations. I hope you have a nice time. Be aware that Afghanistan is kind of a hot item here at the moment: we are discussing wether we want to send more troops to the south or not.

And, the Dutch would be speaking German if it were not for the sacrifice of American lives in WW11. By the way, were it not the Dutch "people" themselver who turned Ann Frank over the Gastapo.
Like I said before, never trust tha Dutch.

GA phillips:

I speak only from years of experience with dealing with the Dutch. Have you ever been to Holland or dealt with the Dutch.

quixote:

If you lived there for 11 years, you didn't learn much did you?

You must be a dutchy:

No, Herbie, I am not a "dutchy"--although James will probably be partaking in a dutchie or two when he is in Amsterdam.

I have just studied Dutch and if you knew anything about the history of YOUR OWN language you would be aware that the Jutes who invaded England in the 5th & 6th century AD spoke a dialect of Frisian which owes much of its grammatical structure and vocabulary to Old Dutch. Frisian crowded out the indigenous languages of England primarily by pushing the locals into the god-foresaken parts of Scotland, Wales, and Ireland.

Basically, without the Dutch, you would be speaking some second rate Celtic language right now.

I lived in Holland for years and have to weigh in on the mini-flame war going on. Herb, you mention the "comment in dutch," but I'm not sure how much translating something like "idioot" really needs. In my experience, that's exactly how much lying the Dutch do: they're some of the most straightforward, honest people I have ever come across. Part of the reason the country is so wildly successful in business (shipping, banking, food, the list is very long) is because of their reputation as honest brokers. The Dutch also have what is to Americans an unimaginably high social consciousness. We figure we're only dumping a little bit of sewage in our many rivers. They figure any sewage dumping is a disgusting outrage. (As you might guess, I'm with the Dutch on that one.) (By the way, fhdjfn, it's "rioolering" isn't it?)

You must be a dutchy:

Your comment is typical of prececely what I was talking about. Perhaps you didn't read my comment very carefully. What I said is that the Dutchys often talk about you and lie to you in front of youf face, then say what they really mean in their own language behind your back. In other words, they are untrustworthy and your comment to me in dutch prooves my point exactly.

Yeah fndjfm, you are a typical hate America dutchy. If you live here in America, that also is typical of a dutchy over here because he can not make it in Holland.

Blogads, it turns out, has invited some bloggers on an expenses-paid trip to Amsterdam in conjunction with Dutch tourism.

So now there's apparently an ethical debate that's now starting that you can read about on