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	<title>Comments on: Brits Flying to 3rd World to Escape NIH</title>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-207193</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:55:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-207193</guid>
		<description>From WebMD:

Dismayed by high surgical costs in the U.S., increasing numbers of American patients are packing their bags to have necessary surgery performed in countries such as India, Thailand, and Singapore.

&quot;This is not what is sometimes snootily referred to as &#039;medical tourism,&#039; in which people go abroad for elective plastic surgery,&quot; says Mark D. Smith, MD, MBA, president and chief executive officer of the California HealthCare Foundation in Oakland.

Today&#039;s &quot;medical refugees,&quot; the term Smith uses in an article published in the Oct. 19 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, are going to foreign countries for lifesaving procedures such as coronary bypass surgery and heart valve replacement, and also life-enhancing procedures such as hip and knee replacementknee replacement.

&quot;People are desperate,&quot; Smith tells WebMD. &quot;This illustrates the growing unaffordability of the U.S. health care system, even to people who are by no means indigent.&quot; 

It&#039;s no suprise the right is always focused on problems overseas and is afraid to look in the mirror, the reflection is just too ugly...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From WebMD:</p>
<p>Dismayed by high surgical costs in the U.S., increasing numbers of American patients are packing their bags to have necessary surgery performed in countries such as India, Thailand, and Singapore.</p>
<p>"This is not what is sometimes snootily referred to as 'medical tourism,' in which people go abroad for elective plastic surgery," says Mark D. Smith, MD, MBA, president and chief executive officer of the California HealthCare Foundation in Oakland.</p>
<p>Today's "medical refugees," the term Smith uses in an article published in the Oct. 19 issue of The New England Journal of Medicine, are going to foreign countries for lifesaving procedures such as coronary bypass surgery and heart valve replacement, and also life-enhancing procedures such as hip and knee replacementknee replacement.</p>
<p>"People are desperate," Smith tells WebMD. "This illustrates the growing unaffordability of the U.S. health care system, even to people who are by no means indigent." </p>
<p>It's no suprise the right is always focused on problems overseas and is afraid to look in the mirror, the reflection is just too ugly...</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-207143</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 05:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-207143</guid>
		<description>&quot;Of course at that point his entire argument disintegrates.&quot;

Why does it disintegrate? Presumably, if you believe that, it is because you have some numbers handy that show the percentage of Americans doing this is lower. Care to share?

&quot;Why are offshore healthcare services to be any different, or for that matter why would it alone be viewed as a negative?&#039;

Huh? If citizens of a country with socialized medicine do it, then it is a negative mark against their health care system, but if Americans do it, it says nothing about ours?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Of course at that point his entire argument disintegrates."</p>
<p>Why does it disintegrate? Presumably, if you believe that, it is because you have some numbers handy that show the percentage of Americans doing this is lower. Care to share?</p>
<p>"Why are offshore healthcare services to be any different, or for that matter why would it alone be viewed as a negative?'</p>
<p>Huh? If citizens of a country with socialized medicine do it, then it is a negative mark against their health care system, but if Americans do it, it says nothing about ours?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206966</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Oct 2007 01:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206966</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Ezra Klein has some numbers on Americans traveling abroad to get cheaper care, noting that “there are more Americans — 100,000 — traveling abroad for cosmetic surgery alone than there are Britons seeking any type of services in foreign lands.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Forgive me, I remain unimpressed as ever with Klein.

First, there are more Americans overall than Brits anymore.So that there are more Americans looking outside for healthcare is a matter of raw numbers. If he were to suggest that a higher PERCENTAGE sought services outside the system.... Of course at that point his entire argument disintegrates.

Secondly, we are a country that imports far more than it sends out... we as a matter of routine look offshore for cheaper &lt;em&gt;everything.&lt;/em&gt; Why are offshore healthcare services to be  any different, or for that matter why would it alone be viewed as a negative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Ezra Klein has some numbers on Americans traveling abroad to get cheaper care, noting that “there are more Americans — 100,000 — traveling abroad for cosmetic surgery alone than there are Britons seeking any type of services in foreign lands.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Forgive me, I remain unimpressed as ever with Klein.</p>
<p>First, there are more Americans overall than Brits anymore.So that there are more Americans looking outside for healthcare is a matter of raw numbers. If he were to suggest that a higher PERCENTAGE sought services outside the system.... Of course at that point his entire argument disintegrates.</p>
<p>Secondly, we are a country that imports far more than it sends out... we as a matter of routine look offshore for cheaper <em>everything.</em> Why are offshore healthcare services to be  any different, or for that matter why would it alone be viewed as a negative?</p>
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		<title>By: tom p</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206798</link>
		<dc:creator>tom p</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 23:19:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>So what?

Americans have been heading to Mexico for at least a decade (that I personally know of).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>So what?</p>
<p>Americans have been heading to Mexico for at least a decade (that I personally know of).</p>
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		<title>By: The Blessings of Universal Health Care &#171; The Van Der Galiën Gazette</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206421</link>
		<dc:creator>The Blessings of Universal Health Care &#171; The Van Der Galiën Gazette</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 16:31:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206421</guid>
		<description>[...] Note to James, Germany, Turkey, Poland and Spain aren&#8217;t what I&#8217;d call third world countries. He&#8217;s right to point out, though, that &#8220;[i]t should be noted that the British system has long been regarded as among the worst in Western Europe and that others have managed to do nationalized health care without this level of public antipathy. And, of course, all Brits are at least guaranteed some level of care across the board, whereas that’s not the case in the United States.&#8221; As far as I know, even the Dutch make fun of the British system. Having said that, only a couple of years ago many people here criticized the system for creating, among other things, waiting lines. If you&#8217;ve got to undergo surgery, most people don&#8217;t wish to wait, say, nine months. When I had a herniated disk (may God bless kickboxing), I had to wait as well for a couple of months before receiving treatment. I can tell you that having to wait while you&#8217;re in tremendous pain and can&#8217;t do anything is quite infuriating. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Note to James, Germany, Turkey, Poland and Spain aren&#8217;t what I&#8217;d call third world countries. He&#8217;s right to point out, though, that &#8220;[i]t should be noted that the British system has long been regarded as among the worst in Western Europe and that others have managed to do nationalized health care without this level of public antipathy. And, of course, all Brits are at least guaranteed some level of care across the board, whereas that&rsquo;s not the case in the United States.&#8221; As far as I know, even the Dutch make fun of the British system. Having said that, only a couple of years ago many people here criticized the system for creating, among other things, waiting lines. If you&#8217;ve got to undergo surgery, most people don&#8217;t wish to wait, say, nine months. When I had a herniated disk (may God bless kickboxing), I had to wait as well for a couple of months before receiving treatment. I can tell you that having to wait while you&#8217;re in tremendous pain and can&#8217;t do anything is quite infuriating. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206362</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 15:04:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206362</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t need to reference Europe concerning medical tourism.  We have our own &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.medretreat.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;sites&lt;/a&gt; in the USA</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don't need to reference Europe concerning medical tourism.  We have our own <a href="http://www.medretreat.com/" rel="nofollow">sites</a> in the USA</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206349</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 14:48:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206349</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m glad that the USandA system is so great that people never go abroad for healthcare and especially never go to Canada for prescription drugs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm glad that the USandA system is so great that people never go abroad for healthcare and especially never go to Canada for prescription drugs.</p>
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		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206250</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:50:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>It would be interesting to see a full comparison of people seeking medical treatment and medication abroad between all the OECD nations.  Does anyone know if this or something similar has been done.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.europeanmedicaltourist.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Here&lt;/a&gt; is a European medical tourism site.  Apparently it is a growth industry in some EU countries.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It would be interesting to see a full comparison of people seeking medical treatment and medication abroad between all the OECD nations.  Does anyone know if this or something similar has been done.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.europeanmedicaltourist.com/" rel="nofollow">Here</a> is a European medical tourism site.  Apparently it is a growth industry in some EU countries.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206248</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206248</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
There’s a vicious cycle at work here: Highly trained doctors and nurses can command premium salaries elsewhere, so the NIH is forced to pay higher wages to compete. Given that there’s a limited sum of tax dollars they can collect, though, that means cuts have to be made elsewhere.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
The &#147;elsewhere&#148; is mostly the United States and another way of looking at this phenomenon is that the U. S. system is driving up healthcare costs worldwide.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
There&rsquo;s a vicious cycle at work here: Highly trained doctors and nurses can command premium salaries elsewhere, so the NIH is forced to pay higher wages to compete. Given that there&rsquo;s a limited sum of tax dollars they can collect, though, that means cuts have to be made elsewhere.
</p></blockquote>
<p>The &#8220;elsewhere&#8221; is mostly the United States and another way of looking at this phenomenon is that the U. S. system is driving up healthcare costs worldwide.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206230</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:07:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206230</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s the &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090701193.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt; to the WaPo article.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here's the <a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/07/AR2007090701193.html" rel="nofollow">link</a> to the WaPo article.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/comment-page-1/#comment-206226</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Oct 2007 12:01:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/10/brits_flying_to_3rd_world_to_escape_nih_/#comment-206226</guid>
		<description>This is also happening in the US, though I don&#039;t know what the numbers are.  The WaPo had an article in recent months about American patients booking surgeries in deluxe hospitals in Thailand for a fraction of the cost of US hospitals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is also happening in the US, though I don't know what the numbers are.  The WaPo had an article in recent months about American patients booking surgeries in deluxe hospitals in Thailand for a fraction of the cost of US hospitals.</p>
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