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	<title>Comments on: Bush May Bail Out Big 3 without Congress</title>
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		<title>By: Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Of bailouts, boycotts, and buying a Ford.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535952</link>
		<dc:creator>Donklephant &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Of bailouts, boycotts, and buying a Ford.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 14 Dec 2008 14:01:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535952</guid>
		<description>[...] late Friday we learned that our lame-duck President and the Bailout Czar (in yet another extra-constitutional working weekend maneuver) are going to give them our money anyway. Quite a roller coaster [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] late Friday we learned that our lame-duck President and the Bailout Czar (in yet another extra-constitutional working weekend maneuver) are going to give them our money anyway. Quite a roller coaster [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe R.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535630</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 13:21:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535630</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That&#039;s impressive... it&#039;s the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually, 10 Republicans crossed the aisle.  If Reid could have rallied the Democrats he&#039;d have had more than enough votes.  It was a handful of Senate Democrats that put it down, including Vice-President elect Joe Biden.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That's impressive... it's the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, 10 Republicans crossed the aisle.  If Reid could have rallied the Democrats he'd have had more than enough votes.  It was a handful of Senate Democrats that put it down, including Vice-President elect Joe Biden.</p>
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		<title>By: James</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535424</link>
		<dc:creator>James</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 23:50:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535424</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t get how it is &quot;blatantly unconstitutional.&quot; Isn&#039;t that a little hyperbolic?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't get how it is "blatantly unconstitutional." Isn't that a little hyperbolic?</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535374</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:34:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535374</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That the bailout fund in question was designated for entirely different purposes and is blatantly unconstitutional doesn’t seem to bother the president.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Listen, there is something called &quot;executive privilege.&#039;  People keep on forgetting: WE ARE AT WAR. Bush is the Commander in Chief.  If he needs to do this to continue to keep our country safe from evil, then he has the authority--and obligation--to do it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That the bailout fund in question was designated for entirely different purposes and is blatantly unconstitutional doesn&rsquo;t seem to bother the president.</p></blockquote>
<p>Listen, there is something called "executive privilege.'  People keep on forgetting: WE ARE AT WAR. Bush is the Commander in Chief.  If he needs to do this to continue to keep our country safe from evil, then he has the authority--and obligation--to do it.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535323</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:02:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535323</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Now here&#039;s the kicker... Cerberus[Chrysler&#039;s owner]also owns controlling interest in GMAC!
Cerberus then effectively owns both GM and Chrysler, making Cerberus ostensibly the sole recipient of &quot;bail-out&quot; money. Go figger!&lt;/blockquote&gt;Didn&#039;t GM sell the GMAC division a couple years ago?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Now here's the kicker... Cerberus[Chrysler's owner]also owns controlling interest in GMAC!<br />
Cerberus then effectively owns both GM and Chrysler, making Cerberus ostensibly the sole recipient of "bail-out" money. Go figger!</p></blockquote>
<p>Didn't GM sell the GMAC division a couple years ago?</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535320</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 22:00:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535320</guid>
		<description>You make an excellent point, Floyd.  

So we are bailing out private equity now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You make an excellent point, Floyd.  </p>
<p>So we are bailing out private equity now?</p>
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		<title>By: Divided We Stand United We Fall</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535312</link>
		<dc:creator>Divided We Stand United We Fall</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:45:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535312</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;If they take the bailout - boycott GM and Chrysler. Buy a Ford. ...&lt;/strong&gt;

Stay tuned. The President and the Economic Czar will, as James Joyner notes do this anyway... American car buying consumers can yet make the decision that our government did not, and support a company that chooses to not take Federal bailout funds....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>If they take the bailout - boycott GM and Chrysler. Buy a Ford. ...</strong></p>
<p>Stay tuned. The President and the Economic Czar will, as James Joyner notes do this anyway... American car buying consumers can yet make the decision that our government did not, and support a company that chooses to not take Federal bailout funds....</p>
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		<title>By: Floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535310</link>
		<dc:creator>Floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:13:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535310</guid>
		<description>A word of perspective; It is not really &quot;the big three that is being referred to here,it is the &quot;big two&quot; or even the &quot;big one&quot;.
Ford has not asked for any payment,but may need a line of credit in the event that GM &amp; Chrysler receive cash bridge money.
 Now here&#039;s the kicker... Cerberus[Chrysler&#039;s owner]also owns controlling interest in GMAC!
Cerberus then effectively owns both GM and Chrysler, making Cerberus ostensibly the sole recipient of &quot;bail-out&quot; money. Go figger!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A word of perspective; It is not really "the big three that is being referred to here,it is the "big two" or even the "big one".<br />
Ford has not asked for any payment,but may need a line of credit in the event that GM &amp; Chrysler receive cash bridge money.<br />
 Now here's the kicker... Cerberus[Chrysler's owner]also owns controlling interest in GMAC!<br />
Cerberus then effectively owns both GM and Chrysler, making Cerberus ostensibly the sole recipient of "bail-out" money. Go figger!</p>
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		<title>By: cfpete</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535299</link>
		<dc:creator>cfpete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:35:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535299</guid>
		<description>From the Detroit Free Press:
&quot;If the jobs bank ends? Then I&#039;m going to be without,&quot; said Lawrence Faw, 47, a Chrysler LLC worker who has been in the jobs bank for the past four years after last working at the Warren Truck Assembly Plant.

Faw said most people don&#039;t understand the community service part of the jobs bank, where he has worked for area churches.

When UAW autoworkers are laid off, they receive a combination of unemployment benefits and supplemental pay from their employer for 48 weeks. If they remain laid off beyond that, they move to the jobs bank, where the company provides about 95% of their pay and benefits.

Faw said most people don&#039;t understand that he had received overtime pay for several years straight before he went into the jobs bank. The jobs bank pay is based on 40 hours without any overtime and represents a significant pay cut from those days.

He said he&#039;s taking home about $600 a week now after taxes and other deductions. His wife lost her job in 2003 and started a family printing business. They&#039;ve already gone through much of their savings.

Faw said he&#039;s stayed in the jobs bank because he&#039;d like to retire after 30 years at Chrysler. What happens if the jobs bank and Chrysler stall out?

&quot;I have eight years to go,&quot; Faw said. &quot;And the way things are going right now, it&#039;s not looking too good.&quot;


You know, I feel for anyone who has lost a job.
However, this guy has not actually worked in about five years and apparently doesn&#039;t intend on working for another eight years - until retirement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the Detroit Free Press:<br />
"If the jobs bank ends? Then I'm going to be without," said Lawrence Faw, 47, a Chrysler LLC worker who has been in the jobs bank for the past four years after last working at the Warren Truck Assembly Plant.</p>
<p>Faw said most people don't understand the community service part of the jobs bank, where he has worked for area churches.</p>
<p>When UAW autoworkers are laid off, they receive a combination of unemployment benefits and supplemental pay from their employer for 48 weeks. If they remain laid off beyond that, they move to the jobs bank, where the company provides about 95% of their pay and benefits.</p>
<p>Faw said most people don't understand that he had received overtime pay for several years straight before he went into the jobs bank. The jobs bank pay is based on 40 hours without any overtime and represents a significant pay cut from those days.</p>
<p>He said he's taking home about $600 a week now after taxes and other deductions. His wife lost her job in 2003 and started a family printing business. They've already gone through much of their savings.</p>
<p>Faw said he's stayed in the jobs bank because he'd like to retire after 30 years at Chrysler. What happens if the jobs bank and Chrysler stall out?</p>
<p>"I have eight years to go," Faw said. "And the way things are going right now, it's not looking too good."</p>
<p>You know, I feel for anyone who has lost a job.<br />
However, this guy has not actually worked in about five years and apparently doesn't intend on working for another eight years - until retirement.</p>
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		<title>By: Drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535296</link>
		<dc:creator>Drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:25:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535296</guid>
		<description>&quot;On the other hand, the banks failed largely because gov&#039;t regulators took a vacation for the last 8 years, not enforcing what few rules the Bush administration (and, I admit, Clinton as well) left in place.&quot;

Enlighten us, legion, exactly which important regulations did the Bush Administration eliminate?  Please be specific.  

Your obvious concern for regulatory enforcement tells me you will agree with me that Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Maxine Walters should be impeached for their vociferous and mocking objection to the regulatory reforms and serious concerns advocated and highlighted by the regulators of Freddie and Fannie in 2003.

Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"On the other hand, the banks failed largely because gov't regulators took a vacation for the last 8 years, not enforcing what few rules the Bush administration (and, I admit, Clinton as well) left in place."</p>
<p>Enlighten us, legion, exactly which important regulations did the Bush Administration eliminate?  Please be specific.  </p>
<p>Your obvious concern for regulatory enforcement tells me you will agree with me that Barney Frank, Chris Dodd and Maxine Walters should be impeached for their vociferous and mocking objection to the regulatory reforms and serious concerns advocated and highlighted by the regulators of Freddie and Fannie in 2003.</p>
<p>Right?</p>
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		<title>By: Pug</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535294</link>
		<dc:creator>Pug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:45:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535294</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I have to admit I don&#039;t see the difference between bailing out the auto industry and bailing out the financial sector. Neither should have been done, but if you give 700 billion to the financial sector, it seems odd to quibble about giving 14 billion to manufacturing.&lt;/em&gt;

One word.  Union.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I have to admit I don't see the difference between bailing out the auto industry and bailing out the financial sector. Neither should have been done, but if you give 700 billion to the financial sector, it seems odd to quibble about giving 14 billion to manufacturing.</em></p>
<p>One word.  Union.</p>
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		<title>By: Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; One Final Betrayal By George W. Bush</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535293</link>
		<dc:creator>Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; One Final Betrayal By George W. Bush</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:16:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535293</guid>
		<description>[...] is why I agree with James Joyner when he notes, Republicans really don&#8217;t have grounds to complain at this point: Republicans who’ve defended Bush’s bypassing legal niceties to advance his policy preferences [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is why I agree with James Joyner when he notes, Republicans really don&#8217;t have grounds to complain at this point: Republicans who&rsquo;ve defended Bush&rsquo;s bypassing legal niceties to advance his policy preferences [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535291</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:54:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535291</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That&#039;s impressive... it&#039;s the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I oppose the bailout and my only &quot;insult&quot; to the Dems is that they might change their stance on the evil that is Bush if he circumvents the Senate and does what they want.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That's impressive... it's the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I oppose the bailout and my only "insult" to the Dems is that they might change their stance on the evil that is Bush if he circumvents the Senate and does what they want.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick T. McGuire</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535290</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick T. McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535290</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One wonders if Democrats will rail against this as an abuse of power or see it as an act of benevolence.  (Not that they can’t do both, obviously.)  Conversely, Republicans who’ve defended Bush’s bypassing legal niceties to advance his policy preferences elsewhere aren’t in the ideal position to criticize.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And what about those of us who fall in neither camp?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One wonders if Democrats will rail against this as an abuse of power or see it as an act of benevolence.  (Not that they can&rsquo;t do both, obviously.)  Conversely, Republicans who&rsquo;ve defended Bush&rsquo;s bypassing legal niceties to advance his policy preferences elsewhere aren&rsquo;t in the ideal position to criticize.</p></blockquote>
<p>And what about those of us who fall in neither camp?</p>
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		<title>By: legion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_may_bail_out_big_3_without_congress/comment-page-1/#comment-535288</link>
		<dc:creator>legion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 18:49:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28662#comment-535288</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One wonders if Democrats will rail against this as an abuse of power or see it as an act of benevolence.  (Not that they can’t do both, obviously.) &lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s impressive... it&#039;s the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.

Frankly, it&#039;s entirely probable that the failure of the automakers would have a much larger impact (at least jobwise) than the loss of the banking industry, given all the other dependent industries. On the other hand, the banks failed largely because gov&#039;t regulators took a vacation for the last 8 years, not enforcing what few rules the Bush administration (and, I admit, Clinton as well) left in place. Given real rules and enforcement, there could be some confidence that the banks would stop slitting their own throats.

The automakers, on the other hand, have shown consistently since the oil crisis of the 70s that they cannot, and are not interested in even trying to, change their suicidally incompetent management and product design strategies. In a few more years, they&#039;ll be at the teat again, begging for more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One wonders if Democrats will rail against this as an abuse of power or see it as an act of benevolence.  (Not that they can&rsquo;t do both, obviously.) </p></blockquote>
<p>That's impressive... it's the Republicans in the Senate who put down the auto bailout, but you still find a way to insult the Dems over it.</p>
<p>Frankly, it's entirely probable that the failure of the automakers would have a much larger impact (at least jobwise) than the loss of the banking industry, given all the other dependent industries. On the other hand, the banks failed largely because gov't regulators took a vacation for the last 8 years, not enforcing what few rules the Bush administration (and, I admit, Clinton as well) left in place. Given real rules and enforcement, there could be some confidence that the banks would stop slitting their own throats.</p>
<p>The automakers, on the other hand, have shown consistently since the oil crisis of the 70s that they cannot, and are not interested in even trying to, change their suicidally incompetent management and product design strategies. In a few more years, they'll be at the teat again, begging for more.</p>
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