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	<title>Comments on: Bush Pleas with Media Not to Reveal Security Secrets</title>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69385</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Dec 2005 12:34:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69385</guid>
		<description>Not attacking your patriotism, just a closer examination of your methods to wage this war on terror.  You would tie the hands of our government, crippling their ability to defend us right here in the U.S.  I guess you think there aren&#039;t any enemies in your beloved socialist homeland, that they&#039;re running around Afghanistan escaping our inept troops...  
So if you think that the FBI listening to international calls made by terrorists is a violation of &quot;freedom&quot;, by association you appear concerned about the terrorists&#039; &quot;rights&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Not attacking your patriotism, just a closer examination of your methods to wage this war on terror.  You would tie the hands of our government, crippling their ability to defend us right here in the U.S.  I guess you think there aren't any enemies in your beloved socialist homeland, that they're running around Afghanistan escaping our inept troops...<br />
So if you think that the FBI listening to international calls made by terrorists is a violation of "freedom", by association you appear concerned about the terrorists' "rights".</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69343</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 21:31:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69343</guid>
		<description>LJD,

Please show one post I have made where I advocate &quot;freedom for terrorists&quot; or support or anything else beside hoping bin laden faces a firing squad.  (hey bush, remember bin laden?)

Its an old tatic you are using LJD, attack the patriotisim of anyone who does not toe the party line.  The fascists and communists made an art form of it and it does not suprise me that you resort to it, especially given your rather limited debate skills.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>LJD,</p>
<p>Please show one post I have made where I advocate "freedom for terrorists" or support or anything else beside hoping bin laden faces a firing squad.  (hey bush, remember bin laden?)</p>
<p>Its an old tatic you are using LJD, attack the patriotisim of anyone who does not toe the party line.  The fascists and communists made an art form of it and it does not suprise me that you resort to it, especially given your rather limited debate skills.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69336</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:44:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69336</guid>
		<description>Anjin-

Freedom for terrorists? I am against that.

Outing CIA agents? It didn&#039;t happen.  That&#039;s why.  If you got away from the kool-aid you would know that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anjin-</p>
<p>Freedom for terrorists? I am against that.</p>
<p>Outing CIA agents? It didn't happen.  That's why.  If you got away from the kool-aid you would know that.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69335</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:42:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69335</guid>
		<description>No idea what tangent you&#039;re off on.  Data mining from masses of information inclduing cell, internet, and international phone calls does not amount to &quot;illegal searches&quot;. 

The subject here is the media informing terrorists of our techniques for locating them, to stop them from killing us.  Period.  Again, how exactly does this have a damn thing to do with controlling the lawful ownership of firearms by responsible American citizens?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No idea what tangent you're off on.  Data mining from masses of information inclduing cell, internet, and international phone calls does not amount to "illegal searches". </p>
<p>The subject here is the media informing terrorists of our techniques for locating them, to stop them from killing us.  Period.  Again, how exactly does this have a damn thing to do with controlling the lawful ownership of firearms by responsible American citizens?</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69333</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 20:41:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69333</guid>
		<description>Hmmm I am in favor of freedom and against outing CIA agents for political gain. LJD exactly why does that piss you off?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm I am in favor of freedom and against outing CIA agents for political gain. LJD exactly why does that piss you off?</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69315</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:47:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69315</guid>
		<description>The fact is, protections against search and seizure, and the right to bear arms, are both guaranteed in the Constitution.  On search, it is pretty clear:

&lt;blockquote&gt;âThe right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.â&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Now why, suddenly, after &lt;strong&gt;decades&lt;/strong&gt; of supporting the right to bear arms, are &quot;conservatives&quot; giving up on the Consitution?

Why do you want to scare me with a &quot;dirty bomb&quot; and make me change my mind?  Isn&#039;t that exactly the kind of argument gun-control advocates made, when they tried to scare people with &quot;saturday night specials&quot; and tried to get them to change their mind?

Both are cheap appeals to fear, in order to get you to give up your Constitutional freedoms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact is, protections against search and seizure, and the right to bear arms, are both guaranteed in the Constitution.  On search, it is pretty clear:</p>
<blockquote><p>âThe right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.â</p></blockquote>
<p>Now why, suddenly, after <strong>decades</strong> of supporting the right to bear arms, are "conservatives" giving up on the Consitution?</p>
<p>Why do you want to scare me with a "dirty bomb" and make me change my mind?  Isn't that exactly the kind of argument gun-control advocates made, when they tried to scare people with "saturday night specials" and tried to get them to change their mind?</p>
<p>Both are cheap appeals to fear, in order to get you to give up your Constitutional freedoms.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69314</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 19:41:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69314</guid>
		<description>I can&#039;t see a gun-ownership advocate making such a careless analogy... Failure to see the GWOT as more than a simple crime/police issue is the classic failure of leftward thinking.

&quot;Legal communications&quot; aren&#039;t the problem.  Aiding the enemy is.  If you don&#039;t see how publicly &quot;spilling the beans&quot; aids terrorists, then you simply choose not to accept reality.  Perhaps a dirty bomb will change your mind...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I can't see a gun-ownership advocate making such a careless analogy... Failure to see the GWOT as more than a simple crime/police issue is the classic failure of leftward thinking.</p>
<p>"Legal communications" aren't the problem.  Aiding the enemy is.  If you don't see how publicly "spilling the beans" aids terrorists, then you simply choose not to accept reality.  Perhaps a dirty bomb will change your mind...</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69298</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 18:17:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69298</guid>
		<description>You aren&#039;t connecting the dots LJD.  I&#039;m not advocating gun control, I&#039;m asking why the same argument doesn&#039;t apply to email/phone conversations.

&quot;...as if legal [communications] had anything at all to do with an increase in the [terrorism] rateâ¦ sheesh You call youself a conservative?&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You aren't connecting the dots LJD.  I'm not advocating gun control, I'm asking why the same argument doesn't apply to email/phone conversations.</p>
<p>"...as if legal [communications] had anything at all to do with an increase in the [terrorism] rateâ¦ sheesh You call youself a conservative?"</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69289</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 17:58:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69289</guid>
		<description>(eyes rolling back with disgust)  ...as if legal gun ownership had anything at all to do with an increase in the crime rate...  sheesh You call youself a conservative?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>(eyes rolling back with disgust)  ...as if legal gun ownership had anything at all to do with an increase in the crime rate...  sheesh You call youself a conservative?</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69275</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:42:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69275</guid>
		<description>BTW, as another illustration, how many murders are there in the US each year (do those qualify as &quot;active&quot;?)?

... and what is your position on gun control?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, as another illustration, how many murders are there in the US each year (do those qualify as "active"?)?</p>
<p>... and what is your position on gun control?</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69274</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:40:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69274</guid>
		<description>I think that is an emotional response.  If we are tough guys (and I think we are), what does &quot;active&quot; mean, really?

WRT &quot;why traffic?&quot;

It&#039;s just a freedom (or privacy) versus security (or safety) trade-off that we are all familiar with.  Certainly, the Oregon (GPS monitoring) proposal spawned a raft of freedom/privacy responses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that is an emotional response.  If we are tough guys (and I think we are), what does "active" mean, really?</p>
<p>WRT "why traffic?"</p>
<p>It's just a freedom (or privacy) versus security (or safety) trade-off that we are all familiar with.  Certainly, the Oregon (GPS monitoring) proposal spawned a raft of freedom/privacy responses.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69270</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:26:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69270</guid>
		<description>Odo: I agree to a point but terrorists are an active threat.  If people on the highways were actually trying to kill people, we&#039;d react differently. And, actually, putting governors and such on cars would make a lot of sense. 

I&#039;m not sure what that has to do with whether people with access to classified info should take it to the press or whether the press should print things that might endanger the nation&#039;s security.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Odo: I agree to a point but terrorists are an active threat.  If people on the highways were actually trying to kill people, we'd react differently. And, actually, putting governors and such on cars would make a lot of sense. </p>
<p>I'm not sure what that has to do with whether people with access to classified info should take it to the press or whether the press should print things that might endanger the nation's security.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69267</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:12:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69267</guid>
		<description>P.S. - You know everyone of us here (in the US) is more likely to be injured today in a traffic accident than in a terroist attack.

(Approx 40,000 people die each year?)

Do you think we should restrict our driving freedom?  Should we put speed-limiting govenors on all cars?  Should we add monitoring eqiupent to every car to monitor speed (as they&#039;ve suggested in Oregon)?

(I think we react differently to terrorists because they are a &quot;new&quot; kind of risk, one that we haven&#039;t processed, or lived all our lives with, like driving in traffic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S. - You know everyone of us here (in the US) is more likely to be injured today in a traffic accident than in a terroist attack.</p>
<p>(Approx 40,000 people die each year?)</p>
<p>Do you think we should restrict our driving freedom?  Should we put speed-limiting govenors on all cars?  Should we add monitoring eqiupent to every car to monitor speed (as they've suggested in Oregon)?</p>
<p>(I think we react differently to terrorists because they are a "new" kind of risk, one that we haven't processed, or lived all our lives with, like driving in traffic.)</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69266</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 16:04:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69266</guid>
		<description>Jimbo, the casualty thing was connected for me partly because of the order I was reading the news yesterday morning ... and it struck me that it tied together from the angle of &quot;what do we, as citizens in a democracy, deserve to know?&quot;

I think we owe it to ourselves to understand how &quot;minimum civilian casualties&quot; are playing out, for both moral and practical reasons.

WRT this all being to &quot;protect us&quot; ... I think the fear gets a little bit irrational at times.  I worked in a 12 story office building during 9/11, but way out in the suburbs.  Some of the poor women in our office were actually scared someone would come crash a plane into us.  We&#039;ve got to be patient with people like that, and help them understand the difference between their actual risk and their perceived risk.

I think our armies and our law enforcement is adequate to deal with terrorists.  We don&#039;t need to break the law to compensate for some irrational fear.

And if we need to change the laws, or adjust the laws ... in a democracy we can certainly do that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jimbo, the casualty thing was connected for me partly because of the order I was reading the news yesterday morning ... and it struck me that it tied together from the angle of "what do we, as citizens in a democracy, deserve to know?"</p>
<p>I think we owe it to ourselves to understand how "minimum civilian casualties" are playing out, for both moral and practical reasons.</p>
<p>WRT this all being to "protect us" ... I think the fear gets a little bit irrational at times.  I worked in a 12 story office building during 9/11, but way out in the suburbs.  Some of the poor women in our office were actually scared someone would come crash a plane into us.  We've got to be patient with people like that, and help them understand the difference between their actual risk and their perceived risk.</p>
<p>I think our armies and our law enforcement is adequate to deal with terrorists.  We don't need to break the law to compensate for some irrational fear.</p>
<p>And if we need to change the laws, or adjust the laws ... in a democracy we can certainly do that.</p>
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		<title>By: ICallMasICM</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/bush_pleas_with_newspaper_editors_not_to_reveal_security_secrets/comment-page-1/#comment-69258</link>
		<dc:creator>ICallMasICM</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Dec 2005 14:17:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=13096#comment-69258</guid>
		<description>&#039;Libertarians are further out there, on both economic and social issues &#039;

Out there? Protecting individual freedom and personal choice is out there? I&#039;ll offer what I hope is accepted as constructive criticism but probably won&#039;t be, but here goes. Since you apparently know nothing about modern Libertarianism it&#039;s probably best you refrain from discussing your uninformed opinions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>'Libertarians are further out there, on both economic and social issues '</p>
<p>Out there? Protecting individual freedom and personal choice is out there? I'll offer what I hope is accepted as constructive criticism but probably won't be, but here goes. Since you apparently know nothing about modern Libertarianism it's probably best you refrain from discussing your uninformed opinions.</p>
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