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	<title>Comments on: Buyers Trashing Houses After Foreclosure</title>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-315018</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:57:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-315018</guid>
		<description>Barry;
      Evict: [1]&quot;eject a tenant from a property by legal means&quot;[2]&quot;throw somebody out of a place&quot;

 OH!! They were EVICTED alright![lol]

 BTW;They trashed the White House by their presence.

 Now they want it back! I guess they heard a rumor of an unsullied corner![grinz]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Barry;<br />
      Evict: [1]"eject a tenant from a property by legal means"[2]"throw somebody out of a place"</p>
<p> OH!! They were EVICTED alright![lol]</p>
<p> BTW;They trashed the White House by their presence.</p>
<p> Now they want it back! I guess they heard a rumor of an unsullied corner![grinz]</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-315007</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:37:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-315007</guid>
		<description>&quot;I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted, and merely thought that it was now acceptable to trash it when you’re leaving.&quot;

Posted by DL 

(a)  That was a media lie.
(b)  The Clintons were not evicted; they&#039;d have had to leave then, anyway.  Wishful thinking, perhaps?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted, and merely thought that it was now acceptable to trash it when you&rsquo;re leaving."</p>
<p>Posted by DL </p>
<p>(a)  That was a media lie.<br />
(b)  The Clintons were not evicted; they'd have had to leave then, anyway.  Wishful thinking, perhaps?</p>
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		<title>By: jack fate</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-314353</link>
		<dc:creator>jack fate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 00:46:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-314353</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What I wonder, though, is why these people aren’t thrown in jail? Once they’ve failed to make their mortgage payments, the house isn’t theirs but the bank’s.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That all depends on who is the &lt;a href=&quot;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_simple&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;fee simple&lt;/a&gt; owner of the record title. You cannot be criminally charged with destroying your own property. Contrary to popular belief, a mortgage or deed of trust (as it is called in some places) does not transfer legal ownership in a property. All it does is grant a secured and enforceable lien on the &lt;em&gt;real property&lt;/em&gt; to the lender. While variable from state to state and sometimes the region, the bank is not the owner of a foreclosed property until either a judgment has been issued and/or, in most cases, a referee&#039;s deed had been delivered or recorded with the proper clerk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What I wonder, though, is why these people aren&rsquo;t thrown in jail? Once they&rsquo;ve failed to make their mortgage payments, the house isn&rsquo;t theirs but the bank&rsquo;s.</p></blockquote>
<p>That all depends on who is the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fee_simple" rel="nofollow">fee simple</a> owner of the record title. You cannot be criminally charged with destroying your own property. Contrary to popular belief, a mortgage or deed of trust (as it is called in some places) does not transfer legal ownership in a property. All it does is grant a secured and enforceable lien on the <em>real property</em> to the lender. While variable from state to state and sometimes the region, the bank is not the owner of a foreclosed property until either a judgment has been issued and/or, in most cases, a referee's deed had been delivered or recorded with the proper clerk.</p>
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		<title>By: maggiemae656</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-314013</link>
		<dc:creator>maggiemae656</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 17:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-314013</guid>
		<description>Quote:  &quot;Megan McArdle doesn’t understand the pointless destruction, observing that it’s “hardly the bank’s fault that you can’t make your mortgage payment.” Indeed. 

You have to ask yourself why are these people willing to resort to these lengths?  Wouldn&#039;t you be interested to hear the conversations between these people who are being foreclosed upon and the banks&#039; &quot;customer service&quot; departments?  You may be more than a little surprised to hear what homeowners under duress of losing their mortgages have to endure from the banks...it&#039;s not pretty.  Maybe there&#039;s a message being sent by these &quot;vandals&quot; that you&#039;re not hearing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Quote:  "Megan McArdle doesn&rsquo;t understand the pointless destruction, observing that it&rsquo;s “hardly the bank&rsquo;s fault that you can&rsquo;t make your mortgage payment.” Indeed. </p>
<p>You have to ask yourself why are these people willing to resort to these lengths?  Wouldn't you be interested to hear the conversations between these people who are being foreclosed upon and the banks' "customer service" departments?  You may be more than a little surprised to hear what homeowners under duress of losing their mortgages have to endure from the banks...it's not pretty.  Maybe there's a message being sent by these "vandals" that you're not hearing.</p>
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		<title>By: rgaye</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313932</link>
		<dc:creator>rgaye</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:48:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313932</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;    Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.

That fits well with John McCain’s call for more reliance on down payments. The trade-off being fewer people will be able to own homes.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Correction, yes some fewer will own homes but the more realistic picture is fewer will own McMansions.  They&#039;ll buy more modest abodes within their means to pay for.  For those unable to save up a reasonable down payment, perhaps it&#039;s best if they don&#039;t own.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>    Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.</p>
<p>That fits well with John McCain&rsquo;s call for more reliance on down payments. The trade-off being fewer people will be able to own homes.</p></blockquote>
<p>Correction, yes some fewer will own homes but the more realistic picture is fewer will own McMansions.  They'll buy more modest abodes within their means to pay for.  For those unable to save up a reasonable down payment, perhaps it's best if they don't own.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill H</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313930</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 15:18:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313930</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted...&lt;/em&gt;

I am an Obama supporter and would not vote for Clinton under any circumstances, but that is pure nonsense. That story has been established to be pure fiction for many years now.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted...</em></p>
<p>I am an Obama supporter and would not vote for Clinton under any circumstances, but that is pure nonsense. That story has been established to be pure fiction for many years now.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313819</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 12:38:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313819</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Many of the homes in foreclosure were not financed by banks, but by mortgage companies, some of which were perpetrating fraud and deceptive lending practices.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Are those who are vandalizing foreclosed properties exclusively the victims of fraud?  Is there a statistical difference in vandalization rates between those who are the victims of fraud and those who aren&#039;t?  Absent those, this is just a red herring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Many of the homes in foreclosure were not financed by banks, but by mortgage companies, some of which were perpetrating fraud and deceptive lending practices.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Are those who are vandalizing foreclosed properties exclusively the victims of fraud?  Is there a statistical difference in vandalization rates between those who are the victims of fraud and those who aren't?  Absent those, this is just a red herring.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313751</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:23:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313751</guid>
		<description>This is actually nothing new.

When we were looking for our first home in 1994, we looked at several forclosed properties (because you could often get a larger house for the money).  We nixed all of them, because all of them had missing appliances, and a lot of other things that normally come with a house, and there was often a lot of damage and they weren&#039;t actually in the long run affordable enough.

I do think a lot of the damage comes from lack of maintenence, rather than deliberate intent.  The appliances are sold, because it puts cash in the owner&#039;s hands.

I figure banks/mortgage companies could file civil suits, but if the former owner couldn&#039;t make their house payments, will they have money to pay for a judgement?  Doubtful, in tghe long run it is probably cheaper to just suck up the loss, and hope to get as much as you can from the sale of the home.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is actually nothing new.</p>
<p>When we were looking for our first home in 1994, we looked at several forclosed properties (because you could often get a larger house for the money).  We nixed all of them, because all of them had missing appliances, and a lot of other things that normally come with a house, and there was often a lot of damage and they weren't actually in the long run affordable enough.</p>
<p>I do think a lot of the damage comes from lack of maintenence, rather than deliberate intent.  The appliances are sold, because it puts cash in the owner's hands.</p>
<p>I figure banks/mortgage companies could file civil suits, but if the former owner couldn't make their house payments, will they have money to pay for a judgement?  Doubtful, in tghe long run it is probably cheaper to just suck up the loss, and hope to get as much as you can from the sale of the home.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313747</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:15:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313747</guid>
		<description>I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted, and merely thought that it was now acceptable to trash it when you&#039;re leaving.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I simply must add that they also saw what the CLintons did to the White house when they were evicted, and merely thought that it was now acceptable to trash it when you're leaving.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313746</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 11:13:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313746</guid>
		<description>In a world where people have been conditioned to hate &quot;rich&quot; institutions by the leftist press and  academia why are you surprised that people do this?

There is also that victim culture that is certain the bank seduced them into taking the loan.

Thirdly this is compounded by the president politicing the &quot;ownership society&quot; so why can&#039;t they just keep it?

Many are also bitter that their tax money has been spent on bailing out others (Katrina etc.) 

In a nation where &quot;Character doesn&#039;t matter&quot; in the presidency, and some Churches are peaching hatred......

Then again there is that &quot;immigration&quot; thing. I realy don&#039;t live in this  country I&#039;m just working here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a world where people have been conditioned to hate "rich" institutions by the leftist press and  academia why are you surprised that people do this?</p>
<p>There is also that victim culture that is certain the bank seduced them into taking the loan.</p>
<p>Thirdly this is compounded by the president politicing the "ownership society" so why can't they just keep it?</p>
<p>Many are also bitter that their tax money has been spent on bailing out others (Katrina etc.) </p>
<p>In a nation where "Character doesn't matter" in the presidency, and some Churches are peaching hatred......</p>
<p>Then again there is that "immigration" thing. I realy don't live in this  country I'm just working here.</p>
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		<title>By: MstrB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313676</link>
		<dc:creator>MstrB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:25:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313676</guid>
		<description>In a previous job when I worked at a law firm doing evictions (and from family in the apartment management business) there were many cases where evicted tenants would do the exact same thing to the units.  (One time someone stole the door off the oven)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In a previous job when I worked at a law firm doing evictions (and from family in the apartment management business) there were many cases where evicted tenants would do the exact same thing to the units.  (One time someone stole the door off the oven)</p>
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		<title>By: Sean Hackbarth</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313675</link>
		<dc:creator>Sean Hackbarth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:19:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313675</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That fits well with John McCain&#039;s call for more reliance on down payments. The trade-off being fewer people will be able to own homes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.</p></blockquote>
<p>That fits well with John McCain's call for more reliance on down payments. The trade-off being fewer people will be able to own homes.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313673</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 03:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313673</guid>
		<description>I have bought several homes after foreclosure, all from banks, and each in need of a great deal of work. Although there was some apparent vandalism in each house, most of the damage has been from lack of maintenance.
I have jumped to the conclusion that people who can&#039;t afford their payments certainly can&#039;t afford maintenance, and usually don&#039;t have the ambition or talent to do it themselves.
 I have not yet seen a house in excellent condition on the date of foreclosure.
 Also, I have sold TWO houses to buyers who used FHA.
Neither made the payment and each was evicted after 24 months. 
 Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have bought several homes after foreclosure, all from banks, and each in need of a great deal of work. Although there was some apparent vandalism in each house, most of the damage has been from lack of maintenance.<br />
I have jumped to the conclusion that people who can't afford their payments certainly can't afford maintenance, and usually don't have the ambition or talent to do it themselves.<br />
 I have not yet seen a house in excellent condition on the date of foreclosure.<br />
 Also, I have sold TWO houses to buyers who used FHA.<br />
Neither made the payment and each was evicted after 24 months.<br />
 Equity should be earned through savings or sweat, before a mortgage is provided.</p>
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		<title>By: Dantheman</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313671</link>
		<dc:creator>Dantheman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 02:32:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313671</guid>
		<description>I will agree with those who pointed out above that until the legal process runs its course, the borrower is still the owner of the property.  On the other hand, most mortgage documents have a covenant whereby the borrower promises not to commit &quot;waste&quot; by taking actions to reduce the value of the property, which trashing the place certainly qualifies as.  On the third hand, since the borrower is already violating his promises by not making the mortgage payments, adding another broken promise under the loan documents doesn&#039;t typically scare the borrower.  On the fourth hand, since the mortgage documents typically allow the lender to go after the borrower for the difference between the mortgage balance and the value of the house, trashing the house likely adds to the deficiency owed by the borrower after the foreclosure.  And on the fifth hand (now you see why Harry Truman asked for a one-handed economist), the borrower typically is in no position to pay the deficiency anyway, so again this is unlikely to deter the borrower.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I will agree with those who pointed out above that until the legal process runs its course, the borrower is still the owner of the property.  On the other hand, most mortgage documents have a covenant whereby the borrower promises not to commit "waste" by taking actions to reduce the value of the property, which trashing the place certainly qualifies as.  On the third hand, since the borrower is already violating his promises by not making the mortgage payments, adding another broken promise under the loan documents doesn't typically scare the borrower.  On the fourth hand, since the mortgage documents typically allow the lender to go after the borrower for the difference between the mortgage balance and the value of the house, trashing the house likely adds to the deficiency owed by the borrower after the foreclosure.  And on the fifth hand (now you see why Harry Truman asked for a one-handed economist), the borrower typically is in no position to pay the deficiency anyway, so again this is unlikely to deter the borrower.</p>
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		<title>By: FireWolf</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/comment-page-1/#comment-313669</link>
		<dc:creator>FireWolf</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Mar 2008 01:10:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/buyers_trashing_houses_after_foreclosure_/#comment-313669</guid>
		<description>&quot;Continuum&quot; &amp; &quot;Yetanotherjohn&quot;, 

I see the ownership of these properties differently.  Until you have your mortgage paid off, banks, mortgage, finance companies have valid claim to your property. In fact, watching some real estate auctions in the Atlanta, GA area, I was stunned to hear that down there, if you miss one mortgage payment, they can seize your property, throw you out, and the bank/lien holding party can auction off your &quot;stead&quot; to the highest bidder.

Until you make that last mortgage payment, you might believe that you are the &quot;owner&quot;, but truthfully you are a leasee. A tennant who is paying off a secured loan in order to have a a slice of the American Dream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Continuum" &amp; "Yetanotherjohn", </p>
<p>I see the ownership of these properties differently.  Until you have your mortgage paid off, banks, mortgage, finance companies have valid claim to your property. In fact, watching some real estate auctions in the Atlanta, GA area, I was stunned to hear that down there, if you miss one mortgage payment, they can seize your property, throw you out, and the bank/lien holding party can auction off your "stead" to the highest bidder.</p>
<p>Until you make that last mortgage payment, you might believe that you are the "owner", but truthfully you are a leasee. A tennant who is paying off a secured loan in order to have a a slice of the American Dream.</p>
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