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	<title>Comments on: Chain Restaurant Elitism</title>
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		<title>By: Original Pechanga</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-359287</link>
		<dc:creator>Original Pechanga</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-359287</guid>
		<description>I too do not like Outback much, they don&#039;t know how to do a steak medium rare.
I do go to chains because they are reasonably priced, well portioned and I KNOW what I&#039;m getting.
Macaroni Grill does decent pasta, their calamari is always done right. 
Olive Garden is good for soup, salad and breadsticks for lunch
No Chains for Mexican food!  At least not here in California.  Plenty of good local places.
I just had dinner last weekend at The Restaurant in Palm Beach.  $400 for two, including drinks, and tip.  Much smaller portions than, Cheesecake Factory, better ingredients, but 6 times the price?  Not necessarily a value.
Find a local place you like and then visit it regularly, so they stay in business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I too do not like Outback much, they don't know how to do a steak medium rare.<br />
I do go to chains because they are reasonably priced, well portioned and I KNOW what I'm getting.<br />
Macaroni Grill does decent pasta, their calamari is always done right.<br />
Olive Garden is good for soup, salad and breadsticks for lunch<br />
No Chains for Mexican food!  At least not here in California.  Plenty of good local places.<br />
I just had dinner last weekend at The Restaurant in Palm Beach.  $400 for two, including drinks, and tip.  Much smaller portions than, Cheesecake Factory, better ingredients, but 6 times the price?  Not necessarily a value.<br />
Find a local place you like and then visit it regularly, so they stay in business.</p>
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		<title>By: Ben</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-359282</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 16:08:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-359282</guid>
		<description>Personally, I’m not an Outback fan. Their restaurants tend to be noisy and crowded, the waits are long, and the steaks are apparently soaked in brine and are thus quite salty.

James, OutBack does not use brine or any thing on there steaks they are seasoned &amp; seard on a flat top ( just like you would cook pancakes )if ya don&#039;t like seasoning or just light just ask,also most ingredients are fresh and made in house all dressings etc.. I&#039;ve been an employye 15+ yrs . Yes it&#039;s not as good as when we first started but hey pretty consistent anyhow just wanted to let you know .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Personally, I&rsquo;m not an Outback fan. Their restaurants tend to be noisy and crowded, the waits are long, and the steaks are apparently soaked in brine and are thus quite salty.</p>
<p>James, OutBack does not use brine or any thing on there steaks they are seasoned &amp; seard on a flat top ( just like you would cook pancakes )if ya don't like seasoning or just light just ask,also most ingredients are fresh and made in house all dressings etc.. I've been an employye 15+ yrs . Yes it's not as good as when we first started but hey pretty consistent anyhow just wanted to let you know .</p>
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		<title>By: No Straw Men : links for 2008-05-08</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-358984</link>
		<dc:creator>No Straw Men : links for 2008-05-08</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 May 2008 08:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-358984</guid>
		<description>[...] Chain Restaurant Elitism - James Joyner, Outside the Beltway Over the last couple of days, Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias, Ross Douthat, Daniel Larison, and Megan McArdle have confessed that chain restaurants such as Outback, Cheesecake Factory, and Olive Garden aren’t all that bad, generating a surprisingly fierce ro [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Chain Restaurant Elitism - James Joyner, Outside the Beltway Over the last couple of days, Ezra Klein, Matt Yglesias, Ross Douthat, Daniel Larison, and Megan McArdle have confessed that chain restaurants such as Outback, Cheesecake Factory, and Olive Garden aren&rsquo;t all that bad, generating a surprisingly fierce ro [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bent Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; They have their pluses when you don&#8217;t look down your nose at them</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-358246</link>
		<dc:creator>Bent Notes &#187; Blog Archive &#187; They have their pluses when you don&#8217;t look down your nose at them</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 17:57:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-358246</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner at Outside the Beltway offers a level-headed perspective on where somewhat-upscale chai... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner at Outside the Beltway offers a level-headed perspective on where somewhat-upscale chai... [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The left and corporate America; a small example &#124; BitsBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357754</link>
		<dc:creator>The left and corporate America; a small example &#124; BitsBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 02:09:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357754</guid>
		<description>[...] Update: Joyner adds some thoughts, and I add some discussion there. -- Clicking here supports BitsBlog-- [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Update: Joyner adds some thoughts, and I add some discussion there. -- Clicking here supports BitsBlog-- [...]</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357710</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:50:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357710</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;No, this was white wine. Does it need to breathe?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I seldom order white wine in a restaurant but certainly never got it in a burgundy glass.  Maybe there are varieties where that&#039;s the norm, though.  Dunno.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>No, this was white wine. Does it need to breathe?</p></blockquote>
<p>I seldom order white wine in a restaurant but certainly never got it in a burgundy glass.  Maybe there are varieties where that's the norm, though.  Dunno.</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357686</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 May 2008 00:36:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357686</guid>
		<description>No, this was white wine.  Does it need to breathe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, this was white wine.  Does it need to breathe?</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357609</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:34:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357609</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And what is with this serving wine in a huge glass that they don’t even fill half-way? Precise measuring must be saving them some pennies somewhere, I guess.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s how you&#039;re supposed to serve most reds, actually.  You have a large bowl to allow oxygenation and never fill more than a third full. Typically, though, wine by the glass will come in a carafe and then you pour into the glass itself.  At any rate, unless they&#039;re gouging you, you still get a quarter bottle in your gigantic glass.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And what is with this serving wine in a huge glass that they don&rsquo;t even fill half-way? Precise measuring must be saving them some pennies somewhere, I guess.</p></blockquote>
<p>That's how you're supposed to serve most reds, actually.  You have a large bowl to allow oxygenation and never fill more than a third full. Typically, though, wine by the glass will come in a carafe and then you pour into the glass itself.  At any rate, unless they're gouging you, you still get a quarter bottle in your gigantic glass.</p>
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		<title>By: J.W. Hamner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357585</link>
		<dc:creator>J.W. Hamner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:17:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357585</guid>
		<description>Yes, New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Boston and probably many other cities have a tremendous amount of quality restaurants...  but how many Americans really live close enough to those cities that they can really experience those restaurants on a daily or weekly basis? It doesn&#039;t really make sense to be criticizing chain restaurants on the basis of the finest of the fine dining options available in Manhattan.  Living a 5 minute walk from Harvard Square I probably have half a dozen different Thai places within walking distance, but when my girlfriend goes up to Maine they talk about THE Thai Place that is a thirty minutes away.  Really, when you think of the vast majority of places out there, I&#039;m betting that many chains are significantly more quality than average.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, New York, Chicago, San Fransisco, Boston and probably many other cities have a tremendous amount of quality restaurants...  but how many Americans really live close enough to those cities that they can really experience those restaurants on a daily or weekly basis? It doesn't really make sense to be criticizing chain restaurants on the basis of the finest of the fine dining options available in Manhattan.  Living a 5 minute walk from Harvard Square I probably have half a dozen different Thai places within walking distance, but when my girlfriend goes up to Maine they talk about THE Thai Place that is a thirty minutes away.  Really, when you think of the vast majority of places out there, I'm betting that many chains are significantly more quality than average.</p>
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		<title>By: Joyce</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357577</link>
		<dc:creator>Joyce</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:11:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357577</guid>
		<description>Ruth Chris oughta be Ruth Crisp

We were very excited to see a Ruth Chris steakhouse open downtown Fort Worth right across the street from my husband’s old building.  We dropped in on them one day for lunch after they opened, but found out they are only open for supper.  And they recommend getting a reservation.  So, we took a card, and waited for a better time.  

Even though we had a reservation, we were sent to wait in the bar, and it was very crowded, and by the time the one bar-waiter got to us, we were tired of waiting.  The bar chairs were none too comfortable.  

They tried shoveling us into a teeny booth, but I did not fit.  I was amused to see that they usually shovel six people into this booth.  The manager sensed my discomfort and gave us a table.  I have never had a manager rub me on the shoulders like that.  It was creepy.  The light was better at the table.  We could actually read the menu and were shocked to see that some items did not even have a price.  Buffalo, for example, was open-ended as far as what it was going to cost.  Buffalo are migratory creatures, so I guess, it depends on how far and wide they had to go to procure said buffalo.  

We were provided with one sad French roll and a tiny bit of butter to keep us occupied until the food arrived.  It bothered me and I realized later that we could have eaten at Carrabbas THREE times for what this ended up costing us.  And the Carrabbas bread is heavenly, and they keep it coming, fresh and hot.   

I ordered medium well, which promised some pink.  Good thing I did not order well done.   Our steak-loving son does not like broccoli so he chose the broiled tomato.  I don’t think I have ever paid seven dollars for a broiled tomato.  No bread crumbs, no cheese, no nothing.  Just a broiled tomato.  My grandpa, who was a farmer, would find high humor in the city slickers being so dumb.  

Disappointed with Ruth Crisp?  That would be an understatement.  We have listened to Sean Hannity brag about them for YEARS on the radio.  I realize this Ruth Chris had only been open a few weeks, but the service was agonizingly slow, the manager too touchy-feely, they ran out of cheesecake, and the prices way too high.  Give me Carrabbas any day.   And what is with this serving wine in a huge glass that they don’t even fill half-way?   Precise measuring must be saving them some pennies somewhere, I guess.  And they gouge the silly rich folks selling bottled water, too.  Please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth Chris oughta be Ruth Crisp</p>
<p>We were very excited to see a Ruth Chris steakhouse open downtown Fort Worth right across the street from my husband&rsquo;s old building.  We dropped in on them one day for lunch after they opened, but found out they are only open for supper.  And they recommend getting a reservation.  So, we took a card, and waited for a better time.  </p>
<p>Even though we had a reservation, we were sent to wait in the bar, and it was very crowded, and by the time the one bar-waiter got to us, we were tired of waiting.  The bar chairs were none too comfortable.  </p>
<p>They tried shoveling us into a teeny booth, but I did not fit.  I was amused to see that they usually shovel six people into this booth.  The manager sensed my discomfort and gave us a table.  I have never had a manager rub me on the shoulders like that.  It was creepy.  The light was better at the table.  We could actually read the menu and were shocked to see that some items did not even have a price.  Buffalo, for example, was open-ended as far as what it was going to cost.  Buffalo are migratory creatures, so I guess, it depends on how far and wide they had to go to procure said buffalo.  </p>
<p>We were provided with one sad French roll and a tiny bit of butter to keep us occupied until the food arrived.  It bothered me and I realized later that we could have eaten at Carrabbas THREE times for what this ended up costing us.  And the Carrabbas bread is heavenly, and they keep it coming, fresh and hot.   </p>
<p>I ordered medium well, which promised some pink.  Good thing I did not order well done.   Our steak-loving son does not like broccoli so he chose the broiled tomato.  I don&rsquo;t think I have ever paid seven dollars for a broiled tomato.  No bread crumbs, no cheese, no nothing.  Just a broiled tomato.  My grandpa, who was a farmer, would find high humor in the city slickers being so dumb.  </p>
<p>Disappointed with Ruth Crisp?  That would be an understatement.  We have listened to Sean Hannity brag about them for YEARS on the radio.  I realize this Ruth Chris had only been open a few weeks, but the service was agonizingly slow, the manager too touchy-feely, they ran out of cheesecake, and the prices way too high.  Give me Carrabbas any day.   And what is with this serving wine in a huge glass that they don&rsquo;t even fill half-way?   Precise measuring must be saving them some pennies somewhere, I guess.  And they gouge the silly rich folks selling bottled water, too.  Please.</p>
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		<title>By: Tnk_Eddy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357572</link>
		<dc:creator>Tnk_Eddy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 23:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357572</guid>
		<description>I saw Ana Marie Cox lunching with fellow travelers Marnie Vander Helsing and Maureen Dowd at the Olive Garden in Falls Church last week.  And nope, I couldn&#039;t believe it either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I saw Ana Marie Cox lunching with fellow travelers Marnie Vander Helsing and Maureen Dowd at the Olive Garden in Falls Church last week.  And nope, I couldn't believe it either.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Swank</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357450</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Swank</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 22:00:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357450</guid>
		<description>Dave,

I like Indian Garden for a buffet.  But for individual entrees I recommend Hema&#039;s Kitchen: Oakley &amp; Devon (the original where you&#039;ll find Hema&#039;s daughter Pam) or in Lincoln Park (where you&#039;ll find Hema).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave,</p>
<p>I like Indian Garden for a buffet.  But for individual entrees I recommend Hema's Kitchen: Oakley &amp; Devon (the original where you'll find Hema's daughter Pam) or in Lincoln Park (where you'll find Hema).</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357435</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:51:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357435</guid>
		<description>BTW, John, I&#039;ve got an amusing story about Indian food.  My wife and I are godparents to the child of some Indian friends of ours.  At the naming party I got into a lengthy discussion with the mother of the husband on the subject of making &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.aayisrecipes.com/2006/05/28/bhel/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;bhel&lt;/a&gt;.  I told her that in my family making bail was a common issue but I&#039;m not sure she got the joke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW, John, I've got an amusing story about Indian food.  My wife and I are godparents to the child of some Indian friends of ours.  At the naming party I got into a lengthy discussion with the mother of the husband on the subject of making <a href="http://www.aayisrecipes.com/2006/05/28/bhel/" rel="nofollow">bhel</a>.  I told her that in my family making bail was a common issue but I'm not sure she got the joke.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357419</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:44:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357419</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s practically impossible to get a bad pizza in Chicago. I don&#039;t eat pizza too often but when I do I&#039;ll usually get &lt;a href=&quot;http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/c-EdwardoAns.shtml?E+scstore+edwardo&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Edwardo&#039;s&lt;/a&gt; although Lou Malnati&#039;s, beloved by many, is just a good stretch of the legs away.

John, Devon Avenue (again, just a little farther than walking distance for me) east of McCormick is, according to Indian friends of mine, as close to New Delhi as you can get without actually going there.  A favorite of mine there, &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.indiangardenchicago.com/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Indian Garden&lt;/a&gt;, has two locations, one on Devon, one downtown.  There are literally 30 good Indian restaurants along about a six block stretch of Devon.

And, of course, if you start walking down Clark Street south of say, Bryn Mawr, you&#039;ll run into a dizzying sequence of Turkish, Iranian, Japanese, Swedish, Thai, Ethiopian, Colombian, and who knows what all else restaurants, nearly all reasonably priced and most of quite high quality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's practically impossible to get a bad pizza in Chicago. I don't eat pizza too often but when I do I'll usually get <a href="http://featuredfoods.com/cgi-local/SoftCart.exe/a-store/c-EdwardoAns.shtml?E+scstore+edwardo" rel="nofollow">Edwardo's</a> although Lou Malnati's, beloved by many, is just a good stretch of the legs away.</p>
<p>John, Devon Avenue (again, just a little farther than walking distance for me) east of McCormick is, according to Indian friends of mine, as close to New Delhi as you can get without actually going there.  A favorite of mine there, <a href="http://www.indiangardenchicago.com/" rel="nofollow">Indian Garden</a>, has two locations, one on Devon, one downtown.  There are literally 30 good Indian restaurants along about a six block stretch of Devon.</p>
<p>And, of course, if you start walking down Clark Street south of say, Bryn Mawr, you'll run into a dizzying sequence of Turkish, Iranian, Japanese, Swedish, Thai, Ethiopian, Colombian, and who knows what all else restaurants, nearly all reasonably priced and most of quite high quality.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/chain_restaurant_elitism/comment-page-1/#comment-357369</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 May 2008 21:11:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/chain_restaurant_elitism/#comment-357369</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;James, have you ever spent any time in Chicago? I can&#039;t speak for New York but one of the remarkable things about dining in Chicago is the high general quality of ordinary non-chain restaurants.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dave, I&#039;ve been a few times and had mixed experience.  For example, the vaunted Gibson&#039;s steakhouse, which is highly touted and ridiculously overpriced, likes to &quot;char&quot; their steaks.  Even though my wife gets hers medium rare, the outside tastes like charcoal.  Ugh.

Similarly, I ate at one of the famous &quot;Chicago pizza&quot; places (a tourist trap, I&#039;m sure, but a well known one) and found the service awful and the pizza worse than most frozen ones I&#039;ve had.

Then again, we also had several very good experiences there, including a couple of truly outstanding meals.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>James, have you ever spent any time in Chicago? I can't speak for New York but one of the remarkable things about dining in Chicago is the high general quality of ordinary non-chain restaurants.</p></blockquote>
<p>Dave, I've been a few times and had mixed experience.  For example, the vaunted Gibson's steakhouse, which is highly touted and ridiculously overpriced, likes to "char" their steaks.  Even though my wife gets hers medium rare, the outside tastes like charcoal.  Ugh.</p>
<p>Similarly, I ate at one of the famous "Chicago pizza" places (a tourist trap, I'm sure, but a well known one) and found the service awful and the pizza worse than most frozen ones I've had.</p>
<p>Then again, we also had several very good experiences there, including a couple of truly outstanding meals.</p>
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