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	<title>Comments on: Charitable Giving:  Liberals vs. Conservatives</title>
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		<title>By: Wickedpinto</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-105052</link>
		<dc:creator>Wickedpinto</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 11:10:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I&#039;m relatively impoverished, and I live day to day, in my economics.

However, as a Private in the Marine Corps, I had no problem donating 1K to the ACF.

I guess servicemembers are JUST warmongers.

Lets get cindy to match dollar for dollar.

I hate that woman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm relatively impoverished, and I live day to day, in my economics.</p>
<p>However, as a Private in the Marine Corps, I had no problem donating 1K to the ACF.</p>
<p>I guess servicemembers are JUST warmongers.</p>
<p>Lets get cindy to match dollar for dollar.</p>
<p>I hate that woman.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-105043</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Nov 2006 02:16:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>great clarity in words that needed said; good job, thanks</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>great clarity in words that needed said; good job, thanks</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-105037</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 23:39:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am reminded, of the huge increase in charitable giving, immediately following the Reagan tax cuts.  That charitable giving came from all over the place, every segment of society.  It is a point in time that is routinely ignored by those who think (?) that government largess is &quot;charity&quot;.  

Think about why that is, and you&#039;ll have a pretty good handle for the rest of the problem that you note.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am reminded, of the huge increase in charitable giving, immediately following the Reagan tax cuts.  That charitable giving came from all over the place, every segment of society.  It is a point in time that is routinely ignored by those who think (?) that government largess is "charity".  </p>
<p>Think about why that is, and you'll have a pretty good handle for the rest of the problem that you note.</p>
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		<title>By: Cernig</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-105032</link>
		<dc:creator>Cernig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 22:03:33 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi again Steve,

I find that Prof Brooks has used the same data massaged in more than one way. In a &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/brooks.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Policy Review article from 2002&lt;/a&gt;, he used the data to show that the biggest indicator is whether one is religious or not.
&lt;blockquote&gt;The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.

Socioeconomically, the religious and secular groups are similar in some ways and different in others. For example, there is little difference between the groups in income (both have average household incomes around $49,000) or education level (20 percent of each group holds a college degree). On the other hand, the secular group is disproportionately male (49 percent to 32 percent), unmarried (58 percent to 40 percent), and young (42 to 49 years old, on average). In addition, the sccbs data show that religion and secularism break down on ideological lines: Religious people are 38 percentage points more likely to say they are conservative than to say they are liberal (57 percent to 19 percent). In contrast, secular people are 13 points more likely to say they are liberal than to say they are conservative (42 percent to 29 percent).

It is possible, of course, that the charity differences between secular and religious people are due to these nonreligious socioeconomic differences. To investigate this possibility, I used a statistical procedure called probit regression to examine the role of religious practice in isolation from all other relevant demographic characteristics: political beliefs, income (and hence, indirectly, the tax incentives for giving), education level, gender, age, race, marital status, and area of residence. The data show that if two people — one religious and the other secular — are identical in every other way, the secular person is 23 percentage points less likely to give than the religious person and 26 points less likely to volunteer. 

Note that neither political ideology nor income is responsible for much of the charitable differences between secular and religious people. For example, religious liberals are 19 points more likely than secular liberals to give to charity, while religious conservatives are 28 points more likely than secular conservatives to do so. In other words, religious conservatives (who give and volunteer at rates of 91 percent and 67 percent) appear to differ from secular liberals (who give and volunteer at rates of 72 percent and 52 percent) more due to religion than to politics. Similarly, giving differences do not disappear when income is neutralized. This should not be particularly surprising, however, because the sccbs data show practically no income differences between the groups. Furthermore, research on philanthropy has consistently shown that the poor tend to give more frequently — and a higher percentage of their incomes — than the middle class. For example, economist Charles Clotfelter and others have shown that the poor tend to give a proportion of their income to charity that is comparable to the giving proportion of the very wealthy — and nearly twice that of the middle class.2 (This seems to be true only for the working poor, however. Welfare support appears to depress giving substantially.3)
&lt;/blockquote&gt; So according to Brooks, I - being a religious (pagan) poor person probably give more as a percentage of income than you as a member of the middle-class, whewther or not you are religious.

&lt;i&gt;And&lt;/i&gt; I continue to believe, as Adam Smith did and modern American conservatives seem not to, that aiding the least fortunate of society is one of the neccesary roles of government. UK conservatives from Disraeli through Churchill continued to steer Smith&#039;s line and now it looks like David Cameron is eschewing Thatcherite/Republican policy to return to the conservative mainstream.

Or maybe all this just suggests that Brooks is an opportunist who will do his damndest to prove whatever he thinks will sell his books...lies, damned lies, and statistics

Regards, Cernig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi again Steve,</p>
<p>I find that Prof Brooks has used the same data massaged in more than one way. In a <a href="http://www.policyreview.org/oct03/brooks.html" rel="nofollow">Policy Review article from 2002</a>, he used the data to show that the biggest indicator is whether one is religious or not.</p>
<blockquote><p>The differences in charity between secular and religious people are dramatic. Religious people are 25 percentage points more likely than secularists to donate money (91 percent to 66 percent) and 23 points more likely to volunteer time (67 percent to 44 percent). And, consistent with the findings of other writers, these data show that practicing a religion is more important than the actual religion itself in predicting charitable behavior. For example, among those who attend worship services regularly, 92 percent of Protestants give charitably, compared with 91 percent of Catholics, 91 percent of Jews, and 89 percent from other religions.</p>
<p>Socioeconomically, the religious and secular groups are similar in some ways and different in others. For example, there is little difference between the groups in income (both have average household incomes around $49,000) or education level (20 percent of each group holds a college degree). On the other hand, the secular group is disproportionately male (49 percent to 32 percent), unmarried (58 percent to 40 percent), and young (42 to 49 years old, on average). In addition, the sccbs data show that religion and secularism break down on ideological lines: Religious people are 38 percentage points more likely to say they are conservative than to say they are liberal (57 percent to 19 percent). In contrast, secular people are 13 points more likely to say they are liberal than to say they are conservative (42 percent to 29 percent).</p>
<p>It is possible, of course, that the charity differences between secular and religious people are due to these nonreligious socioeconomic differences. To investigate this possibility, I used a statistical procedure called probit regression to examine the role of religious practice in isolation from all other relevant demographic characteristics: political beliefs, income (and hence, indirectly, the tax incentives for giving), education level, gender, age, race, marital status, and area of residence. The data show that if two people — one religious and the other secular — are identical in every other way, the secular person is 23 percentage points less likely to give than the religious person and 26 points less likely to volunteer. </p>
<p>Note that neither political ideology nor income is responsible for much of the charitable differences between secular and religious people. For example, religious liberals are 19 points more likely than secular liberals to give to charity, while religious conservatives are 28 points more likely than secular conservatives to do so. In other words, religious conservatives (who give and volunteer at rates of 91 percent and 67 percent) appear to differ from secular liberals (who give and volunteer at rates of 72 percent and 52 percent) more due to religion than to politics. Similarly, giving differences do not disappear when income is neutralized. This should not be particularly surprising, however, because the sccbs data show practically no income differences between the groups. Furthermore, research on philanthropy has consistently shown that the poor tend to give more frequently — and a higher percentage of their incomes — than the middle class. For example, economist Charles Clotfelter and others have shown that the poor tend to give a proportion of their income to charity that is comparable to the giving proportion of the very wealthy — and nearly twice that of the middle class.2 (This seems to be true only for the working poor, however. Welfare support appears to depress giving substantially.3)
</p></blockquote>
<p> So according to Brooks, I - being a religious (pagan) poor person probably give more as a percentage of income than you as a member of the middle-class, whewther or not you are religious.</p>
<p><i>And</i> I continue to believe, as Adam Smith did and modern American conservatives seem not to, that aiding the least fortunate of society is one of the neccesary roles of government. UK conservatives from Disraeli through Churchill continued to steer Smith's line and now it looks like David Cameron is eschewing Thatcherite/Republican policy to return to the conservative mainstream.</p>
<p>Or maybe all this just suggests that Brooks is an opportunist who will do his damndest to prove whatever he thinks will sell his books...lies, damned lies, and statistics</p>
<p>Regards, Cernig</p>
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		<title>By: Cernig</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-105031</link>
		<dc:creator>Cernig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:53:25 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Hi Steve,

It&#039;s Prof. Brooks, not Burns, and this study has been meming its way around Right Blogistan for the last month...long enough for conservative intellectuals to honestly analyze the premises and findings and look askance at them. Witness &lt;a href=&quot;http://volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;this post&lt;/a&gt; from the Volokh Conspiracy blog.
&lt;blockquote&gt;I am skeptical of basing so much on the SCCBS, in large part because it reports that liberal families make more money than conservatives (it is not clear from Brooks’s book whether the survey is of a representative national sample). In the 2000, 2002, and 2004 General Social Surveys, which are representative samples of the US, conservative families make $2,500 to $5,600 a year more than liberal families in each one. Although I don’t have the ANES data handy, my recollection is that the economic differences between conservatives and liberals are usually in the same direction and even larger in the ANES than in the GSS.

...I can’t rule out the possibility that Brooks changed his reporting of the significance level so he wouldn’t have to explain why, after lots and lots of controls, liberals were more likely to have made a donation than moderates, while conservatives did not differ significantly from either liberals or moderates.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Regards, Cernig</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Steve,</p>
<p>It's Prof. Brooks, not Burns, and this study has been meming its way around Right Blogistan for the last month...long enough for conservative intellectuals to honestly analyze the premises and findings and look askance at them. Witness <a href="http://volokh.com/posts/1164012942.shtml" rel="nofollow">this post</a> from the Volokh Conspiracy blog.</p>
<blockquote><p>I am skeptical of basing so much on the SCCBS, in large part because it reports that liberal families make more money than conservatives (it is not clear from Brooks&rsquo;s book whether the survey is of a representative national sample). In the 2000, 2002, and 2004 General Social Surveys, which are representative samples of the US, conservative families make $2,500 to $5,600 a year more than liberal families in each one. Although I don&rsquo;t have the ANES data handy, my recollection is that the economic differences between conservatives and liberals are usually in the same direction and even larger in the ANES than in the GSS.</p>
<p>...I can&rsquo;t rule out the possibility that Brooks changed his reporting of the significance level so he wouldn&rsquo;t have to explain why, after lots and lots of controls, liberals were more likely to have made a donation than moderates, while conservatives did not differ significantly from either liberals or moderates.</p></blockquote>
<p>Regards, Cernig</p>
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		<title>By: Conservative Compendium</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/comment-page-1/#comment-129938</link>
		<dc:creator>Conservative Compendium</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/11/charitable_giving_liberals_vs_conservatives/#comment-129938</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;the price of commodities. Under this shortsighted economic system, an increase in oil consumption not accompanied by a corresponding increase in supply causes a spike in prices. And since everyone in the &quot;cultured&quot; world knows that Americans areenormously stingy with their money, it&#039;s no wonder that people would try to burn as little gas as possible; conserve; carpool. In our selfish attempts to minimise spending, we ignored the catastrophic effects on the planet by burning far less oil than we were capable of. We have the&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->the price of commodities. Under this shortsighted economic system, an increase in oil consumption not accompanied by a corresponding increase in supply causes a spike in prices. And since everyone in the "cultured" world knows that Americans areenormously stingy with their money, it's no wonder that people would try to burn as little gas as possible; conserve; carpool. In our selfish attempts to minimise spending, we ignored the catastrophic effects on the planet by burning far less oil than we were capable of. We have the<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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