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	<title>Comments on: CIA Bans Water-Boarding</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-158848</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 19:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-158848</guid>
		<description>I might even go so far as to jaywalk in order to prevent a nuclear detonation in an American city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I might even go so far as to jaywalk in order to prevent a nuclear detonation in an American city.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-158649</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:44:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-158649</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Fourth, legalizing torture in a genuine ticking-bomb situation is superfluous. If Charles Austin actually keeps L.A. from being nuked by torturing a guy, what jury is going to convict him, even if he cut off the subject&#039;s testicles to get him to talk?&lt;/blockquote&gt;That has always been my reaction to the &quot;ticking time-bomb&quot; hypothetical.  If you are so sure of the immediate danger, and so sure that the suspect knows how to stop it, would breaking the law really be something that holds you back?  If you could stop a nuke by robbing a liquor store, would you hesitate to do that?  If you could stop a nuke by just killing the suspect, would you hesitate?  No, so why would the fact that torture is illegal suddenly make you willing to allow a catastrophe instead of violate the law?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Fourth, legalizing torture in a genuine ticking-bomb situation is superfluous. If Charles Austin actually keeps L.A. from being nuked by torturing a guy, what jury is going to convict him, even if he cut off the subject's testicles to get him to talk?</p></blockquote>
<p>That has always been my reaction to the "ticking time-bomb" hypothetical.  If you are so sure of the immediate danger, and so sure that the suspect knows how to stop it, would breaking the law really be something that holds you back?  If you could stop a nuke by robbing a liquor store, would you hesitate to do that?  If you could stop a nuke by just killing the suspect, would you hesitate?  No, so why would the fact that torture is illegal suddenly make you willing to allow a catastrophe instead of violate the law?</p>
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		<title>By: legion</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-158644</link>
		<dc:creator>legion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 14:34:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-158644</guid>
		<description>Even if a torture subject gives a response, how can you know they&#039;re not just saying what you want to hear to stop the pain? You can either take them at face value and stop the process, or go further, even after getting an answer, &quot;just to make sure&quot;.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Arnone, torture is not a &quot;tool&quot; for obtaining valid intel. Its chief use has been to obtain false confessions -- to witchcraft, bourgeois deviationism, whatever.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Actually, Anderson, I&#039;d go farther than that. Because of the incredibly dubious nature of any info obtained by torture, and the inherent brutality required to get anything at all, I would go so far as to state that torture is nothing more than an excuse to brutalize a powerless victim. It gives the torturer a chance to take sadistic revenge on some psychological surrogate for the person or group that truly threatens him, but provides exactly zero concrete benefit. Using it is, almost by definition, evidence of a deranged mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if a torture subject gives a response, how can you know they're not just saying what you want to hear to stop the pain? You can either take them at face value and stop the process, or go further, even after getting an answer, "just to make sure".</p>
<blockquote><p>Arnone, torture is not a "tool" for obtaining valid intel. Its chief use has been to obtain false confessions -- to witchcraft, bourgeois deviationism, whatever.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, Anderson, I'd go farther than that. Because of the incredibly dubious nature of any info obtained by torture, and the inherent brutality required to get anything at all, I would go so far as to state that torture is nothing more than an excuse to brutalize a powerless victim. It gives the torturer a chance to take sadistic revenge on some psychological surrogate for the person or group that truly threatens him, but provides exactly zero concrete benefit. Using it is, almost by definition, evidence of a deranged mind.</p>
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		<title>By: Right Voices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Open Trackback: The Gathering Of Eagles Get A Big Fat 0 To The Anti War Protestors 189</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-158098</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Voices &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Open Trackback: The Gathering Of Eagles Get A Big Fat 0 To The Anti War Protestors 189</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 17 Sep 2007 03:30:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-158098</guid>
		<description>[...] to Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Pirate&#8217;s Cove &#187; &#62;&#62;Americans Never Quit &#187; Sept 15th Protest Photo's</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157845</link>
		<dc:creator>Pirate&#8217;s Cove &#187; &#62;&#62;Americans Never Quit &#187; Sept 15th Protest Photo's</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 23:18:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157845</guid>
		<description>[...] to Outside the Beltway, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, Big Dog&#8217;s Weblog, Right [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Outside the Beltway, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, Big Dog&#8217;s Weblog, Right [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rhymes With Right</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157788</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhymes With Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:48:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157788</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;What UC-Irvine Really Needs...&lt;/strong&gt;

In light of the handling of the Chemerinsky hiring, there is only one conclusion. The University of California at Irvine clearly has misdirected its search efforts. It has been looking for a law school dean. But what it really needs......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>What UC-Irvine Really Needs...</strong></p>
<p>In light of the handling of the Chemerinsky hiring, there is only one conclusion. The University of California at Irvine clearly has misdirected its search efforts. It has been looking for a law school dean. But what it really needs......</p>
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		<title>By: Rhymes With Right</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157787</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhymes With Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:47:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157787</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;British Bishop Calls On Muslims To Affirm Religious Freedom...&lt;/strong&gt;

And as the son of a convert from Islam, he ought to know what ex-Muslims face at the hands of the members of their former religion. One of the Church of England&#039;s most senior bishops is warning that people will......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>British Bishop Calls On Muslims To Affirm Religious Freedom...</strong></p>
<p>And as the son of a convert from Islam, he ought to know what ex-Muslims face at the hands of the members of their former religion. One of the Church of England's most senior bishops is warning that people will......</p>
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		<title>By: Rhymes With Right</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157782</link>
		<dc:creator>Rhymes With Right</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:43:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157782</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Ann Romney -- Prettier Than Bill Clinton...&lt;/strong&gt;

Hey -- in a world where we are seeing women enter non-traditional fields more and more often, we knew there would be a day with a real possibility of a male &quot;First Lady&quot;. I like Mitt Romney&#039;s response to it.......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Ann Romney -- Prettier Than Bill Clinton...</strong></p>
<p>Hey -- in a world where we are seeing women enter non-traditional fields more and more often, we knew there would be a day with a real possibility of a male "First Lady". I like Mitt Romney's response to it.......</p>
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		<title>By: Nuke&#8217;s News &#38; Views &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reid: One Meeeeelyun Deaths</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157762</link>
		<dc:creator>Nuke&#8217;s News &#38; Views &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Reid: One Meeeeelyun Deaths</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 21:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157762</guid>
		<description>[...] to Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: planck's constant</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157703</link>
		<dc:creator>planck's constant</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:19:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157703</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;SouthWestAirlines to woman: skirt too short to fly...&lt;/strong&gt;

everything is offensive to adults with heightened sensitivities.&quot; Should Jews be thrown off planes because they&#039;re offensive to Muslim passengers?...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>SouthWestAirlines to woman: skirt too short to fly...</strong></p>
<p>everything is offensive to adults with heightened sensitivities." Should Jews be thrown off planes because they're offensive to Muslim passengers?...</p>
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		<title>By: The World According To Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157693</link>
		<dc:creator>The World According To Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 20:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157693</guid>
		<description>[...] big &#8220;WHO DAT?!?&#8221; hello to readers from Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] big &#8220;WHO DAT?!?&#8221; hello to readers from Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157628</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 19:07:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157628</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;What have we gained if one of our cities is nuked because we didn&#039;t use the tools we could have used.&lt;/em&gt;

Arnone, torture is not a &quot;tool&quot; for obtaining valid intel.  Its chief use has been to obtain false confessions -- to witchcraft, bourgeois deviationism, whatever.

The people who interrogate for a living and write the manuals on the subject, are as one in rejecting torture.  There are better methods.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>What have we gained if one of our cities is nuked because we didn't use the tools we could have used.</em></p>
<p>Arnone, torture is not a "tool" for obtaining valid intel.  Its chief use has been to obtain false confessions -- to witchcraft, bourgeois deviationism, whatever.</p>
<p>The people who interrogate for a living and write the manuals on the subject, are as one in rejecting torture.  There are better methods.</p>
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		<title>By: The World According To Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157577</link>
		<dc:creator>The World According To Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 18:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157577</guid>
		<description>[...] big tomahawk chop hello to readers from Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] big tomahawk chop hello to readers from Stop the ACLU, Outside the Beltway, Perri Nelson&#8217;s Website, Is It Just Me?, The Virtuous Republic, Rosemary&#8217;s Thoughts, [...]</p>
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		<title>By: DeMediacratic Nation at WordPress</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157507</link>
		<dc:creator>DeMediacratic Nation at WordPress</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 17:19:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157507</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Iran Policy Rift - State Doves and Cheney Hawks...&lt;/strong&gt;

The toilet Paper sees signs of a split within the Bush administration on Iran policy and that language in the Presidents speech on Thursday reflected an intense and continuing struggle between factions within his administration over how aggressivel...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Iran Policy Rift - State Doves and Cheney Hawks...</strong></p>
<p>The toilet Paper sees signs of a split within the Bush administration on Iran policy and that language in the Presidents speech on Thursday reflected an intense and continuing struggle between factions within his administration over how aggressivel...</p>
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		<title>By: Right Truth</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/comment-page-1/#comment-157463</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Truth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 16 Sep 2007 16:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/09/cia_bans_water-boarding_in_terror_interrogations/#comment-157463</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Sunday Reading List September 16, 2007...&lt;/strong&gt;

I&#039;ve searched the blogroll and the media and come up with some great reading for EVERYBODY. Right, Left, Middle, Conspiracy, whatever ... there&#039;s something for you here: Cardinal shocks Germans with &quot;Nazi&quot; term, from A Western Heart “evil” gun ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Sunday Reading List September 16, 2007...</strong></p>
<p>I've searched the blogroll and the media and come up with some great reading for EVERYBODY. Right, Left, Middle, Conspiracy, whatever ... there's something for you here: Cardinal shocks Germans with "Nazi" term, from A Western Heart “evil” gun ...</p>
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