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	<title>Comments on: Conservative Bloggers Debate Bush</title>
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		<title>By: Solo Dialogue</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55439</link>
		<dc:creator>Solo Dialogue</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 20:11:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55439</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;The Dregs of Summer. (Politically Speaking)&lt;/strong&gt;

Congress is in recess, the President is on vacation (again), much of Washington is on the Delaware Shore, heck even The Note is away. So there is little, or nothing going on in Washington. Cindy Sheehan and how hard the Democrats will blast away at J...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>The Dregs of Summer. (Politically Speaking)</strong></p>
<p>Congress is in recess, the President is on vacation (again), much of Washington is on the Delaware Shore, heck even The Note is away. So there is little, or nothing going on in Washington. Cindy Sheehan and how hard the Democrats will blast away at J...</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55423</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:49:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55423</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;His political instincts are always off. He is too fickle when the going gets rough. He opposed Social Security reform.&lt;/i&gt;

Well, if he opposed SS &quot;reform,&quot; I&#039;d say his political instincts are better than, oh, George W. Bush&#039;s.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>His political instincts are always off. He is too fickle when the going gets rough. He opposed Social Security reform.</i></p>
<p>Well, if he opposed SS "reform," I'd say his political instincts are better than, oh, George W. Bush's.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55420</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 18:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55420</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a surprise to Bainbridge that Bush isn&#039;t a small-government conservative?  Pfui!  Would President Gore or President Kerry been better for small-government conservatism?  Double-pfui!  The time to oppose Bush was in 2000.  You go to war with the president you have (and make no mistake, whether we&#039;d invaded Iraq or not we&#039;d still be at war).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's a surprise to Bainbridge that Bush isn't a small-government conservative?  Pfui!  Would President Gore or President Kerry been better for small-government conservatism?  Double-pfui!  The time to oppose Bush was in 2000.  You go to war with the president you have (and make no mistake, whether we'd invaded Iraq or not we'd still be at war).</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55413</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 17:31:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55413</guid>
		<description>Really, would anyone really give a rat&#039;s ass if Saddam was still in power?  

The mullahs are in power in Iran, hard at work on real, not phantom, WMD.  There is a genuine lunatic in power in North Korea, he has WMD and is hard at work on delivery systems. We do billions of dollars of business with a very ugly totalitarian regime in China. Lets not even talk about Africa.  

Is the world better off/safer then it was when Saddam was in power?  Its pretty hard to even argue that Iraq is better off, given the current carnage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Really, would anyone really give a rat's ass if Saddam was still in power?  </p>
<p>The mullahs are in power in Iran, hard at work on real, not phantom, WMD.  There is a genuine lunatic in power in North Korea, he has WMD and is hard at work on delivery systems. We do billions of dollars of business with a very ugly totalitarian regime in China. Lets not even talk about Africa.  </p>
<p>Is the world better off/safer then it was when Saddam was in power?  Its pretty hard to even argue that Iraq is better off, given the current carnage.</p>
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		<title>By: Will Franklin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55405</link>
		<dc:creator>Will Franklin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:57:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55405</guid>
		<description>I am not a fan at all of Bainbridge. Honestly, he is the most overrated blogger in the entire blogosphere. His political instincts are always off. He is too fickle when the going gets rough. He opposed Social Security reform.

He&#039;s a waste of bandwidth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a fan at all of Bainbridge. Honestly, he is the most overrated blogger in the entire blogosphere. His political instincts are always off. He is too fickle when the going gets rough. He opposed Social Security reform.</p>
<p>He's a waste of bandwidth.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55404</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:55:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55404</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;And that would have resulted in Saddam being back in power within a couple of months.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m guessing you mean a Saddam-like dictator, since obviously we would&#039;ve kept Saddam in our custody if we had little faith in the incoming gov&#039;t.

My position on democracy in Iraq was/is that if the Iraqis want democracy, they&#039;ll get it for themselves, &amp; if they don&#039;t, we can&#039;t lead &#039;em to it.  &quot;You can lead a horticulture but you can&#039;t make her think,&quot; as Ms. Parker said.

So removing Saddam &amp; his cronies, keeping the army intact, and letting the Iraqis sort out what would happen next, might&#039;ve been messy, but as compared to the insurgency, that&#039;s less &amp; less of an objection.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>And that would have resulted in Saddam being back in power within a couple of months.</i></p>
<p>I'm guessing you mean a Saddam-like dictator, since obviously we would've kept Saddam in our custody if we had little faith in the incoming gov't.</p>
<p>My position on democracy in Iraq was/is that if the Iraqis want democracy, they'll get it for themselves, &amp; if they don't, we can't lead 'em to it.  "You can lead a horticulture but you can't make her think," as Ms. Parker said.</p>
<p>So removing Saddam &amp; his cronies, keeping the army intact, and letting the Iraqis sort out what would happen next, might've been messy, but as compared to the insurgency, that's less &amp; less of an objection.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55401</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 16:48:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55401</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The flawed intel and miscalculations were how the war was sold to America. I suppose a different president might have been able to remove Saddam, look around and go âoops, no WMDâ and leave the premises, but Bush wasnât him.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And that would have resulted in Saddam being back in power within a couple of months.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The flawed intel and miscalculations were how the war was sold to America. I suppose a different president might have been able to remove Saddam, look around and go âoops, no WMDâ and leave the premises, but Bush wasnât him.</p></blockquote>
<p>And that would have resulted in Saddam being back in power within a couple of months.</p>
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		<title>By: matthewstinson.net</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55390</link>
		<dc:creator>matthewstinson.net</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:52:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55390</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Bush is bankrupting the conservative movement&lt;/strong&gt;

	Conservative lawblogger Stephen Bainbridge is getting a lot of what they call in Washington &#8220;strange new respect&#8221; for his strongly-worded criticism of the President&#8217;s international and domestic policies.  While liberals like Kevin Dr...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Bush is bankrupting the conservative movement</strong></p>
<p>	Conservative lawblogger Stephen Bainbridge is getting a lot of what they call in Washington &#8220;strange new respect&#8221; for his strongly-worded criticism of the President&#8217;s international and domestic policies.  While liberals like Kevin Dr...</p>
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		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55387</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 15:40:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55387</guid>
		<description>Trying to divide the two components of Iraq and claiming they are not related is a dishonest appraisal of the situation.  You do not take over a country without  thinking about what you do next.  Many of us that opposed the war, including me, opposed it because we believed or expected the situation to end up like it has -- a protracted insurgency that weakened the US. 

The question now is how do we clean up the mess without massively harming the ability of the US to  influence events in the region  and conduct a rational foreign policy where the rest of the world does not look at the US as some ignorant cowboy who should not be trusted to weild its great power.

Watching this war evolve over the last couple of years made me feel like I did when the police called me in the middle of the night to come get my teenager that had done something stupid. You still love the kid, and will do anything to keep the incident from ruining his life, but you know the rules have to change and you can not trust the kid like you did before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trying to divide the two components of Iraq and claiming they are not related is a dishonest appraisal of the situation.  You do not take over a country without  thinking about what you do next.  Many of us that opposed the war, including me, opposed it because we believed or expected the situation to end up like it has -- a protracted insurgency that weakened the US. </p>
<p>The question now is how do we clean up the mess without massively harming the ability of the US to  influence events in the region  and conduct a rational foreign policy where the rest of the world does not look at the US as some ignorant cowboy who should not be trusted to weild its great power.</p>
<p>Watching this war evolve over the last couple of years made me feel like I did when the police called me in the middle of the night to come get my teenager that had done something stupid. You still love the kid, and will do anything to keep the incident from ruining his life, but you know the rules have to change and you can not trust the kid like you did before.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55383</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55383</guid>
		<description>DCL:  No, it was certainly at least on par with &quot;regime change/WMD&quot; as the motivation for the war. 

My point is merely that the main criticism of Bush from the MoveOn.org crowd have to do with the &quot;Bush lied&quot; business about WMD and so forth whereas that part of the war isn&#039;t what went badly.

The more rational &quot;poor planning for the aftermath&quot; argument is one I quibble with at the margins but is not the one that seems to have most people in a froth.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DCL:  No, it was certainly at least on par with "regime change/WMD" as the motivation for the war. </p>
<p>My point is merely that the main criticism of Bush from the MoveOn.org crowd have to do with the "Bush lied" business about WMD and so forth whereas that part of the war isn't what went badly.</p>
<p>The more rational "poor planning for the aftermath" argument is one I quibble with at the margins but is not the one that seems to have most people in a froth.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55382</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:49:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55382</guid>
		<description>Do you really believe that the &quot;ambitious agenda to reshape the Arab Middle East&quot; was an afterthought?  Back when you all thought the war was over it was trumpeted as a GWB legacy for posterity.  Now it&#039;s the red headed stepchild.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you really believe that the "ambitious agenda to reshape the Arab Middle East" was an afterthought?  Back when you all thought the war was over it was trumpeted as a GWB legacy for posterity.  Now it's the red headed stepchild.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/conservative_bloggers_debate_bush/comment-page-1/#comment-55381</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 22 Aug 2005 14:45:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=11728#comment-55381</guid>
		<description>Good post.  I might question your cause-&amp;-effect:

&lt;blockquote&gt;If the war is ultimately a failure, it will be because of an overly ambitious agenda to reshape the Arab Middle East, not flawed intelligence on the nuclear program or miscalculations as to the danger posed by Saddam.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The flawed intel and miscalculations were how the war was sold to America.  I suppose a different president might have been able to remove Saddam, look around and go &quot;oops, no WMD&quot; and leave the premises, but Bush wasn&#039;t him.  (Okay, sure, &quot;he,&quot; but it sounds funny.)

Plus, our utter failure to plan the postwar led to the insurgency, which then placed a substantial burden upon us to provide stability in Iraq.  The PR consequences of doing so by setting up Saddam II were likely insurmountable.  

So I think coming up empty-handed on the WMD&#039;s was partially the cause of the emphasis on nation-building.  Granted, Wolfowitz &amp; his ilk were for the latter all along, but I think the WMD fiasco put their ideas up front, faute de mieux.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Good post.  I might question your cause-&amp;-effect:</p>
<blockquote><p>If the war is ultimately a failure, it will be because of an overly ambitious agenda to reshape the Arab Middle East, not flawed intelligence on the nuclear program or miscalculations as to the danger posed by Saddam.</p></blockquote>
<p>The flawed intel and miscalculations were how the war was sold to America.  I suppose a different president might have been able to remove Saddam, look around and go "oops, no WMD" and leave the premises, but Bush wasn't him.  (Okay, sure, "he," but it sounds funny.)</p>
<p>Plus, our utter failure to plan the postwar led to the insurgency, which then placed a substantial burden upon us to provide stability in Iraq.  The PR consequences of doing so by setting up Saddam II were likely insurmountable.  </p>
<p>So I think coming up empty-handed on the WMD's was partially the cause of the emphasis on nation-building.  Granted, Wolfowitz &amp; his ilk were for the latter all along, but I think the WMD fiasco put their ideas up front, faute de mieux.</p>
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