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	<title>Comments on: DC Roads Close for Obama</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:32:40 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Obama&#8217;s &#8216;Lincolnesque&#8217; Train Ride</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-617716</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama&#8217;s &#8216;Lincolnesque&#8217; Train Ride</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Jan 2009 00:04:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-617716</guid>
		<description>[...] here&#8217;s the thing: Barack Obama has been in DC for days and days. Half of DC was shut down so he and his family could stay at the Hay-Adams and his girls could start at their $30,000 a year [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] here&#8217;s the thing: Barack Obama has been in DC for days and days. Half of DC was shut down so he and his family could stay at the Hay-Adams and his girls could start at their $30,000 a year [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Joe R.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-549194</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe R.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 18:14:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-549194</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The difference, of course, is that European transportation is subsidized heavily.

It that a good use for tax dollars? I suspect it is, especially if you get personal benefit from it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
And if you don&#039;t benefit, you get to pay for someone else&#039;s cheap, convenient commute.  Not as much of a good deal in that case.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The difference, of course, is that European transportation is subsidized heavily.</p>
<p>It that a good use for tax dollars? I suspect it is, especially if you get personal benefit from it.</p></blockquote>
<p>And if you don't benefit, you get to pay for someone else's cheap, convenient commute.  Not as much of a good deal in that case.</p>
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		<title>By: The Agitator &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Morning Links</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-549117</link>
		<dc:creator>The Agitator &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Morning Links</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 11:47:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-549117</guid>
		<description>[...] of the presidency watch: James Joyner says it&#8217;s time we stopped closing off neighborhoods shutting down cities in the name of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] of the presidency watch: James Joyner says it&#8217;s time we stopped closing off neighborhoods shutting down cities in the name of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548998</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 04:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548998</guid>
		<description>DC Loser: Well, given how popular he is at CIA and State, maybe that wasn&#039;t just paranoia!? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DC Loser: Well, given how popular he is at CIA and State, maybe that wasn't just paranoia!? :)</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548943</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:29:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548943</guid>
		<description>The Secret Service is paranoid, I guess.  How many British PMs have they lost to assassins?  But they do go overboard.  The current POTUS was at a very secure Top Secret SCIF facility in the DC area recently, and I had a chance to see first hand the Secret Service in action.  I was a little amused to see the extent to cocoon the POTUS from all those untrustworthy government workers with TS SCI clearances.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Secret Service is paranoid, I guess.  How many British PMs have they lost to assassins?  But they do go overboard.  The current POTUS was at a very secure Top Secret SCIF facility in the DC area recently, and I had a chance to see first hand the Secret Service in action.  I was a little amused to see the extent to cocoon the POTUS from all those untrustworthy government workers with TS SCI clearances.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548915</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548915</guid>
		<description>While posted in the UK, it was interesting to see the difference between UK and US security setups for heads of state. The US President travels in a 20-car motorcade, the Queen travels in a single car with a handful of motorcycle outriders.

The US Secret Service prefers to shut down streets an hour or so ahead of a motorcade&#039;s passing; the UK uses those outriders as rolling roadblocks, leapfrogging from intersection to intersection to close them off.

I do recall the Secret Service&#039;s being annoyed that they could not close the M4 between Heathrow and the city for Clinton&#039;s first motorcade. They were also miffed that the Brits wouldn&#039;t close Heathrow for the arrival/departure of Air Force One.

Actually, they weren&#039;t happy with security at #10 Downing St., either, until its subtleties were pointed out to them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While posted in the UK, it was interesting to see the difference between UK and US security setups for heads of state. The US President travels in a 20-car motorcade, the Queen travels in a single car with a handful of motorcycle outriders.</p>
<p>The US Secret Service prefers to shut down streets an hour or so ahead of a motorcade's passing; the UK uses those outriders as rolling roadblocks, leapfrogging from intersection to intersection to close them off.</p>
<p>I do recall the Secret Service's being annoyed that they could not close the M4 between Heathrow and the city for Clinton's first motorcade. They were also miffed that the Brits wouldn't close Heathrow for the arrival/departure of Air Force One.</p>
<p>Actually, they weren't happy with security at #10 Downing St., either, until its subtleties were pointed out to them.</p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548741</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 20:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548741</guid>
		<description>I think having secret service serve as body guards and armored motorcades make sense.   I can maybe see shutting down a road or two when the president or president elect is moving from point a to point b.  But closing down roads permanently for days or weeks seems like overkill.

They should be able to effectively protect the president when he is at home or in an temporary home or in an office without shutting down a city.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think having secret service serve as body guards and armored motorcades make sense.   I can maybe see shutting down a road or two when the president or president elect is moving from point a to point b.  But closing down roads permanently for days or weeks seems like overkill.</p>
<p>They should be able to effectively protect the president when he is at home or in an temporary home or in an office without shutting down a city.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548731</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 19:37:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548731</guid>
		<description>In addition to the discomfort factor of long walks to work, there&#039;s the issue of what rents/mortgage you pay in living close to work. In DC, that can be a pretty tidy sum.

DC public transportation doesn&#039;t exactly suck, but it&#039;s far from truly usable by the majority of the people who live and work there. It doesn&#039;t begin to compare, though, to the &#039;pedestrianized&#039; cities of Europe where public transportation is, generally speaking, a major asset. 

For $60/mo in many European cities, you can buy a ticket good on buses, undergrounds, and trains. That amount in the US doesn&#039;t get you a month on the underground or even two weeks in commercial parking lots. The difference, of course, is that European transportation is subsidized heavily. 

It that a good use for tax dollars? I suspect it is, especially if you get personal benefit from it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition to the discomfort factor of long walks to work, there's the issue of what rents/mortgage you pay in living close to work. In DC, that can be a pretty tidy sum.</p>
<p>DC public transportation doesn't exactly suck, but it's far from truly usable by the majority of the people who live and work there. It doesn't begin to compare, though, to the 'pedestrianized' cities of Europe where public transportation is, generally speaking, a major asset. </p>
<p>For $60/mo in many European cities, you can buy a ticket good on buses, undergrounds, and trains. That amount in the US doesn't get you a month on the underground or even two weeks in commercial parking lots. The difference, of course, is that European transportation is subsidized heavily. </p>
<p>It that a good use for tax dollars? I suspect it is, especially if you get personal benefit from it.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548713</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:39:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548713</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t recall any complaints about Cheney&#039;s daily trips at lunch time from his undisclosed location(s) back to the Naval Observatory lo these many years. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

A motorcade isn&#039;t the same as a weeks-long closure of major arteries.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Cities in the US and Europe with considerably higher population densities than DC have embraced pedestrianization. (See, e.g., Trafalgar Square, London.)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s not about residents so much as commuters. Unless one lives in non-Georgetown DC or the very near suburbs, driving is the only option for getting back and forth from work.  When I&#039;m in tourist mode, I gladly walk for miles and miles.

It&#039;s rather inefficient, however, to walk 15 miles each way to work in a business suit.  And between two income families and frequent job changes, &quot;live closer to the office&quot; isn&#039;t a realistic option for most of us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don't recall any complaints about Cheney's daily trips at lunch time from his undisclosed location(s) back to the Naval Observatory lo these many years. </p></blockquote>
<p>A motorcade isn't the same as a weeks-long closure of major arteries.</p>
<blockquote><p>Cities in the US and Europe with considerably higher population densities than DC have embraced pedestrianization. (See, e.g., Trafalgar Square, London.)</p></blockquote>
<p>It's not about residents so much as commuters. Unless one lives in non-Georgetown DC or the very near suburbs, driving is the only option for getting back and forth from work.  When I'm in tourist mode, I gladly walk for miles and miles.</p>
<p>It's rather inefficient, however, to walk 15 miles each way to work in a business suit.  And between two income families and frequent job changes, "live closer to the office" isn't a realistic option for most of us.</p>
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		<title>By: SavageView</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548708</link>
		<dc:creator>SavageView</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 18:29:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548708</guid>
		<description>1.  I don&#039;t recall any complaints about Cheney&#039;s &lt;i&gt;daily trips&lt;/i&gt; at lunch time from his undisclosed location(s) back to the Naval Observatory lo these many years.  But then that merely affects Connecticut and Wisconsin Avenues at midday.  (Oh, and he&#039;s a Republican god-king by the standards used in this entry and its thread.)

2.  Cities in the US and Europe with considerably higher population densities than DC have embraced pedestrianization.  (See, e.g., Trafalgar Square, London.)  Consider the closure of Penn Ave in front of the White House as a beautification process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1.  I don't recall any complaints about Cheney's <i>daily trips</i> at lunch time from his undisclosed location(s) back to the Naval Observatory lo these many years.  But then that merely affects Connecticut and Wisconsin Avenues at midday.  (Oh, and he's a Republican god-king by the standards used in this entry and its thread.)</p>
<p>2.  Cities in the US and Europe with considerably higher population densities than DC have embraced pedestrianization.  (See, e.g., Trafalgar Square, London.)  Consider the closure of Penn Ave in front of the White House as a beautification process.</p>
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		<title>By: Richard Gardner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548695</link>
		<dc:creator>Richard Gardner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 17:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548695</guid>
		<description>I just was looking at the &lt;a href=&quot;http://voices.washingtonpost.com/getthere/2009/01/road_restrictions_for_inaugura.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;complete list of road closures&lt;/a&gt; and was wondering what was open. Only the Beltway is my guess, and it is outside DC. I too went to the 2004 inauguration, and am glad I&#039;m not going to this one. Just wait until the masses attempt to reenter the Metro stations (I hope I&#039;m wrong). 

Last night on NPR there was talk about the new essay contest to get tickets, comparing it to &lt;em&gt;Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory&lt;/em&gt; with a &lt;em&gt;Golden Ticket&lt;/em&gt;. This is getting silly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I just was looking at the <a href="http://voices.washingtonpost.com/getthere/2009/01/road_restrictions_for_inaugura.html" rel="nofollow">complete list of road closures</a> and was wondering what was open. Only the Beltway is my guess, and it is outside DC. I too went to the 2004 inauguration, and am glad I'm not going to this one. Just wait until the masses attempt to reenter the Metro stations (I hope I'm wrong). </p>
<p>Last night on NPR there was talk about the new essay contest to get tickets, comparing it to <em>Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory</em> with a <em>Golden Ticket</em>. This is getting silly.</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Finel</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548662</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Finel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:59:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548662</guid>
		<description>Amen James.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Amen James.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548661</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:59:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548661</guid>
		<description>There is a legitimate need for security for the president-elect as well as other high-level government officials, as &#039;undemocratic&#039; as it may seem. The days of just walking up to the White House and knocking on the door are long gone. So, too, is the ability to drive on Pennsylvania Ave, in front of the building at 1600. Maybe it started with the Puerto Rican terrorists shot down in front of the Blair Mansion during the Truman administration.

But security can certainly be a pain in the neck for residents. My wife has a house in Georgetown that was three doors down from then-VP candidate John Edwards, and a block from John Kerry&#039;s house. Secret Service did not make the situation any more pleasant, taking up large numbers of parking places and shutting down the streets abruptly, albeit briefly.

The situation was similar with the security around Madeleine Albright&#039;s place when she was SecState. Neighbors gripe, too, at the fact that some houses have visits from the VP or high-level foreign officials, which lead to street closures and jammed traffic.

The latest buzz is that Oprah is looking for a place in Georgetown, maybe the Evermay mansion, maybe the Edwards&#039; former house. Not a government official, of course, she will still have security issues that will make life more complicated for those living nearby.

Part of the price of living in DC, I guess.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is a legitimate need for security for the president-elect as well as other high-level government officials, as 'undemocratic' as it may seem. The days of just walking up to the White House and knocking on the door are long gone. So, too, is the ability to drive on Pennsylvania Ave, in front of the building at 1600. Maybe it started with the Puerto Rican terrorists shot down in front of the Blair Mansion during the Truman administration.</p>
<p>But security can certainly be a pain in the neck for residents. My wife has a house in Georgetown that was three doors down from then-VP candidate John Edwards, and a block from John Kerry's house. Secret Service did not make the situation any more pleasant, taking up large numbers of parking places and shutting down the streets abruptly, albeit briefly.</p>
<p>The situation was similar with the security around Madeleine Albright's place when she was SecState. Neighbors gripe, too, at the fact that some houses have visits from the VP or high-level foreign officials, which lead to street closures and jammed traffic.</p>
<p>The latest buzz is that Oprah is looking for a place in Georgetown, maybe the Evermay mansion, maybe the Edwards' former house. Not a government official, of course, she will still have security issues that will make life more complicated for those living nearby.</p>
<p>Part of the price of living in DC, I guess.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dc_roads_close_for_obama/comment-page-1/#comment-548639</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 14:24:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29672#comment-548639</guid>
		<description>If presidents were only being treated like kings, it would be an enormous improvement.  There&#039;s an old proverb/wisecrack that&#039;s illuminating:  &#147;a cat may look at a king&#148;.  For much of our history any American could gain entrance to the White House to speak with the president just by walking up to the door.

Instead, presidents are being treated like god-kings or fabulous Oriental potentates.  

A lot of this is the increased security that happened after the Kennedy assassination, the mass demonstrations of the 1960&#039;s, the multiple assassination attempts of the 1970&#039;s and 1980&#039;s, and the domestic and foreign terrorist attacks of the last 20 years.  Some of it is probably the increased professionalism of the president&#039;s protectors.

But some of it is just because the country is so much bigger and the government is so much bigger, richer, and more powerful.

Remember, too, James, that Washington wasn&#039;t supposed to be a city.  It was supposed to be a sort of large campus&#8212;just the seat of government.  This is an issue related to the DC statehood one:  if Washington, DC is a city it should be treated like one (which includes representation either in its own right or by devolution); if it just the seat of government it shouldn&#039;t have so many people living there, commuting, etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If presidents were only being treated like kings, it would be an enormous improvement.  There's an old proverb/wisecrack that's illuminating:  &#8220;a cat may look at a king&#8221;.  For much of our history any American could gain entrance to the White House to speak with the president just by walking up to the door.</p>
<p>Instead, presidents are being treated like god-kings or fabulous Oriental potentates.  </p>
<p>A lot of this is the increased security that happened after the Kennedy assassination, the mass demonstrations of the 1960's, the multiple assassination attempts of the 1970's and 1980's, and the domestic and foreign terrorist attacks of the last 20 years.  Some of it is probably the increased professionalism of the president's protectors.</p>
<p>But some of it is just because the country is so much bigger and the government is so much bigger, richer, and more powerful.</p>
<p>Remember, too, James, that Washington wasn't supposed to be a city.  It was supposed to be a sort of large campus&mdash;just the seat of government.  This is an issue related to the DC statehood one:  if Washington, DC is a city it should be treated like one (which includes representation either in its own right or by devolution); if it just the seat of government it shouldn't have so many people living there, commuting, etc.</p>
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