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	<title>Comments on: Dean to Florida and Michigan: Your Move</title>
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		<title>By: bornonthefourth</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-296246</link>
		<dc:creator>bornonthefourth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 00:13:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-296246</guid>
		<description>COUNT THE VOTES........ We were in FLA. just before the primary and saw Obama adds on TV talking like Malcolm X, dirty Chi Town Pizza Uno politics. His adds were on TV in FLA. No more John Sweeney stop the vote in Fla. and fix the election. Obama violated the rules with spill over adds. They need to have a state convention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>COUNT THE VOTES........ We were in FLA. just before the primary and saw Obama adds on TV talking like Malcolm X, dirty Chi Town Pizza Uno politics. His adds were on TV in FLA. No more John Sweeney stop the vote in Fla. and fix the election. Obama violated the rules with spill over adds. They need to have a state convention.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-296234</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 23:54:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-296234</guid>
		<description>Isn&#039;t it interesting, though, that the Clinton strategy for winning the primary this time round, is exactly Gore&#039;s strategy to win the 2000 election? Challenge the agreed upon rules, and demand a re-vote.....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Isn't it interesting, though, that the Clinton strategy for winning the primary this time round, is exactly Gore's strategy to win the 2000 election? Challenge the agreed upon rules, and demand a re-vote.....</p>
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		<title>By: Esoterically.net/weblog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-296144</link>
		<dc:creator>Esoterically.net/weblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 21:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-296144</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Once more, with feeling...&lt;/strong&gt;

Florida and Michigan are still throwing temper tantrums like three year old children. Some people on the right are still having difficulty in understanding the DNC&#8217;s position in all this. (My own feelings were presented in an earlier post.)
So&amp;#8...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Once more, with feeling...</strong></p>
<p>Florida and Michigan are still throwing temper tantrums like three year old children. Some people on the right are still having difficulty in understanding the DNC&#8217;s position in all this. (My own feelings were presented in an earlier post.)<br />
So&amp;#8...</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-296037</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:57:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-296037</guid>
		<description>Michael;

        From the Wisdom of wiki....

 &quot;&quot;The show emphasizes conflict resolution, co-operation, socialization and various learning skills.{Builder} Bob&#039;s catchphrase is &quot;Can we fix it?&quot;, to which the other characters respond with &quot;Yes we can!&quot; This phrase is also the title of the show&#039;s theme song, which was a Comic Relief hit in England.&quot;&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael;</p>
<p>        From the Wisdom of wiki....</p>
<p> ""The show emphasizes conflict resolution, co-operation, socialization and various learning skills.{Builder} Bob's catchphrase is "Can we fix it?", to which the other characters respond with "Yes we can!" This phrase is also the title of the show's theme song, which was a Comic Relief hit in England.""</p>
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		<title>By: Len</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-296031</link>
		<dc:creator>Len</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 18:40:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-296031</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s half time at the Super Bowl. One of the teams decides that a touchdown should now be worth ten points rather than seven. Do you change the rules?

Both Michigan and Florida knew the rules and had agreed to them before this process started. They then decided to break the rules. I wish one of you folks on the right would explain to me why you feel they should be rewarded for this. Why should the rules be changed in the middle of the game?

This Crist character in Florida is really a piece of work. I hope McCain picks him as his running mate.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's half time at the Super Bowl. One of the teams decides that a touchdown should now be worth ten points rather than seven. Do you change the rules?</p>
<p>Both Michigan and Florida knew the rules and had agreed to them before this process started. They then decided to break the rules. I wish one of you folks on the right would explain to me why you feel they should be rewarded for this. Why should the rules be changed in the middle of the game?</p>
<p>This Crist character in Florida is really a piece of work. I hope McCain picks him as his running mate.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlaloc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295993</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlaloc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:28:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295993</guid>
		<description>For as maligned as he is, Dean is a damn good DNC chair.  His 50 state strategy was roundly laughed at until it ended up being a huge success, now even some republicans are openly saying they need to copy it.  And I respect that he&#039;s not caving in here.  Good for him.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For as maligned as he is, Dean is a damn good DNC chair.  His 50 state strategy was roundly laughed at until it ended up being a huge success, now even some republicans are openly saying they need to copy it.  And I respect that he's not caving in here.  Good for him.</p>
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		<title>By: Florida and Michigan a do-over? &#124; BitsBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295984</link>
		<dc:creator>Florida and Michigan a do-over? &#124; BitsBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 17:10:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295984</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner gets into all of this, this monring, with an overview of some of the surrounding issues. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner gets into all of this, this monring, with an overview of some of the surrounding issues. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295967</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:45:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295967</guid>
		<description>There is unquestionably a sense of irony surrounding the idea that twice, now, the election hangs, for Democrats on Florida. And now, this time, Mich, too.

This is imporant, I think, because of the degree of emotionalism that the Democrat party tends to base it&#039;s campaigns... and it&#039;s chocies of campaigners.. on.  The combo is a deadly one, either way Dean were to rule on this one. The party is divided at near enough 50/50 as to not matter much, which way he rules... any choice at all is bound to tick off half the party, and likely cost the independant vote, as well... and across the country, not just in those states.

Either way, it comes off as high-handed, and we&#039;ll see charges of both an arbitrary ruling, and a pre-selection by the DNC. 

However that goes, there&#039;s the image of a party that is in extreme disarray, and over the last 4 presidential cycles, a situation that&#039;s been getting worse. 

In all of this the one thing that shows rather clearly is something I&#039;ve been lamenting for some time; the only thing that makes McCain look good is the Democrats.... now, not only from a matter of policy, but as a matter of sheer organizational inability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There is unquestionably a sense of irony surrounding the idea that twice, now, the election hangs, for Democrats on Florida. And now, this time, Mich, too.</p>
<p>This is imporant, I think, because of the degree of emotionalism that the Democrat party tends to base it's campaigns... and it's chocies of campaigners.. on.  The combo is a deadly one, either way Dean were to rule on this one. The party is divided at near enough 50/50 as to not matter much, which way he rules... any choice at all is bound to tick off half the party, and likely cost the independant vote, as well... and across the country, not just in those states.</p>
<p>Either way, it comes off as high-handed, and we'll see charges of both an arbitrary ruling, and a pre-selection by the DNC. </p>
<p>However that goes, there's the image of a party that is in extreme disarray, and over the last 4 presidential cycles, a situation that's been getting worse. </p>
<p>In all of this the one thing that shows rather clearly is something I've been lamenting for some time; the only thing that makes McCain look good is the Democrats.... now, not only from a matter of policy, but as a matter of sheer organizational inability.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295959</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:30:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295959</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee shall act on the proposed plans as soon as practicable, but in no case later than September 16, 2007, or four months before the respective state’s first determining step, whichever is earlier. Its decision shall be final and binding.&lt;/em&gt;

Given the above line in the &lt;a href=&quot;http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Democratic party rules&lt;/a&gt; for selecting delegates, wouldn&#039;t holding a second vote be in violation of the democratic rules? As such, whomever loses would be incentivized to go into court to throw it out. How would going ahead and seating the selected delegates be any less a violation than holding a second vote?

And if they are going to be breaking the rules anyway, why not let them just do a final state convention to select delegates?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>The DNC Rules and Bylaws Committee shall act on the proposed plans as soon as practicable, but in no case later than September 16, 2007, or four months before the respective state&rsquo;s first determining step, whichever is earlier. Its decision shall be final and binding.</em></p>
<p>Given the above line in the <a href="http://s3.amazonaws.com/apache.3cdn.net/3e5b3bfa1c1718d07f_6rm6bhyc4.pdf" rel="nofollow">Democratic party rules</a> for selecting delegates, wouldn't holding a second vote be in violation of the democratic rules? As such, whomever loses would be incentivized to go into court to throw it out. How would going ahead and seating the selected delegates be any less a violation than holding a second vote?</p>
<p>And if they are going to be breaking the rules anyway, why not let them just do a final state convention to select delegates?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295954</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:19:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295954</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They could&#039;ve been smart like the Repubs and said that they&#039;d seat only half the delegates, which would still have allowed for campaigning &amp; a primary.&lt;/blockquote&gt;And if Hillary won a large majority in both, and seating the other half would give her the nomination, don&#039;t you think we&#039;d be right back where we are now?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They could've been smart like the Repubs and said that they'd seat only half the delegates, which would still have allowed for campaigning &amp; a primary.</p></blockquote>
<p>And if Hillary won a large majority in both, and seating the other half would give her the nomination, don't you think we'd be right back where we are now?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295952</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:17:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295952</guid>
		<description>Florida&#039;s Gov. Charlie Christ has announced that if the state Democrats were to hold another primary, the state wouldn&#039;t pay for it.  I think their estimate is that it would cost $25 million.  I wonder if each candidate&#039;s campaign would be willing to contribute $12.5 million of their contributions to a Florida re-primary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Florida's Gov. Charlie Christ has announced that if the state Democrats were to hold another primary, the state wouldn't pay for it.  I think their estimate is that it would cost $25 million.  I wonder if each candidate's campaign would be willing to contribute $12.5 million of their contributions to a Florida re-primary.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295950</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:12:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295950</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They could&#039;ve been smart like the Repubs and said that they&#039;d seat only half the delegates&lt;/blockquote&gt;

A fair point.

Honestly, I don&#039;t think it occurred to anyone at the DNC -- quite reasonably, it seems to me -- that it&#039;d ever get to this stage.  HRC was supposed to benefit tremendously from the tightly clustered primaries and wrap things up by Super Tuesday.  So taking a bold stand wasn&#039;t going to really cost anything and the FL and MI delegates would be seated when it didn&#039;t matter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They could've been smart like the Repubs and said that they'd seat only half the delegates</p></blockquote>
<p>A fair point.</p>
<p>Honestly, I don't think it occurred to anyone at the DNC -- quite reasonably, it seems to me -- that it'd ever get to this stage.  HRC was supposed to benefit tremendously from the tightly clustered primaries and wrap things up by Super Tuesday.  So taking a bold stand wasn't going to really cost anything and the FL and MI delegates would be seated when it didn't matter.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295949</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295949</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Oh!!! I forgot the the slogan which was plagiarized from Builder Bob...&quot;YES! WE CAN!!&lt;/blockquote&gt;It was actually taken from Cesar Chavez: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%AD_se_puede</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Oh!!! I forgot the the slogan which was plagiarized from Builder Bob..."YES! WE CAN!!</p></blockquote>
<p>It was actually taken from Cesar Chavez: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%AD_se_puede" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S%C3%AD_se_puede</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295943</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 16:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The mess is partly of the DNC&#039;s making.  They could&#039;ve been smart like the Repubs and said that they&#039;d seat only half the delegates, which would still have allowed for campaigning &amp; a primary.  

Then if Florida was very very sorry etc., horses could be traded and the remaining delegates seated, or not.

As it stands, they had NO real primary and face the obstacles you&#039;ve described.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The mess is partly of the DNC's making.  They could've been smart like the Repubs and said that they'd seat only half the delegates, which would still have allowed for campaigning &amp; a primary.  </p>
<p>Then if Florida was very very sorry etc., horses could be traded and the remaining delegates seated, or not.</p>
<p>As it stands, they had NO real primary and face the obstacles you've described.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/comment-page-1/#comment-295928</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 06 Mar 2008 15:39:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/03/dean_to_florida_and_michigan_your_move/#comment-295928</guid>
		<description>Oh!!! I forgot the the slogan which was plagiarized from Builder Bob...&quot;YES! WE CAN!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh!!! I forgot the the slogan which was plagiarized from Builder Bob..."YES! WE CAN!!</p>
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