The Democrats unlike the Republicans are not stupid. They will not cut funds for this war, that will give them ownership of the war, and we don't want it.

The war is all yours.... In fact I am for more funds, and if you people the "Cut and Bleed" crowd continue with your so called policy so much the better!!

In 08 you will not have a party left.... What is it now, you know the support for your cause among the normal Americans?.... 20% or so?

If that does not tell your side where you stand you are dumber than I tought... And apparently you people are, so be my guest destroy yourselves over an idiot president.

After this next failed "surge" PLEASE support another one, and another one... OH man this would be fun if it was not so tragic, for THE REAL AMERICANS YOUR SIDE CONTINUES TO SEND TO DIE BECAUSE .... YOU SUPPORT THE TROOPS!!!

No pal, your kind supports the Iraqi troops, your side supports al Sadar the nut leader of the Shiite Militias, your side supports al Sistani the crazy Iranian Mullah ... Those are the ones getting an R&R while our soldiers "supported" by you "patriots" continue to be sent back to die tour after tour

Have you ever heard of a plan that works? When it does, you can tell immediately because you start to see results. You side some how went back to kinder garden and forgot that a plan that "works" is not supposed to take four years of incremental chaos. Are you people that dumb, or are you like pretending now?

And Carl... what are you smoking, and where can I get ME some of it?

Bush will say “The spending proposed by Congress does not sufficently provide for our troops in the field,” carefully including all the magical buzz words as he vetoes the bill.

Good luck with that. I'm sure a president with approval ratings in the low 30s to high 20s who is trying to escalate a massive unpopular and unnecessary war in the year before a presidential election...

...nevermind.

If you want to believe the public will accept Bush's excuse of why he "had" to veto funding for the troops- be my guest.

How do I acquire and Who do I thank for a mantra to the abyss? I got to believe that sometimes George and maybe his fister buddy Cheney, sit in the dark, looking up from the blackest pit of a soulless prison of their own devise, with their only resolve being to find the exit in the corner of the round room. But the “news” always slaps me back like the wet gym towel snap to the ass. I guess one has to have a sense of humor to deal with the absurdity and hopelessness, so much so that what is needed at times like these is to metaphorically light a fart to chase away the dark spooks of despair! I didn't actually do that last night but I had the opportunity for much needed decompression.

What's the worst that could happen? (Don't ask!) I'm too old to get drafted. I probably don't qualify anymore to work at the 7-Up bottling company. They don't have debtor's prison. I managed to lose that crazy bitch that chased after my car. And as far as I know, there's no warrants for my arrest. The shoulder/headache conundrum is bugging the shit out of me, but that's what drugs are for. If they fire me I know I can at least get a job shoveling sand! I take solace in various blogger’s words of encouragement and caring; as the Indians would say: "There is both fire and iron in your words". At least I'm not a guitar player for Celine Dion.

Befuddled by life’s ill-timed, truant, and what I hope is malingering karma, listening to the honeyed, Old Grand Dad soaked strains of Charlie Rich tossing around the idea of who the next bobo will be, as I wipe my weekend-induced, furrowed brow, contemplating yon weekend’s bitter yet persnickety insistence that I not rest easy nor enjoy chemical related abandon. Events are happening at a frightening rate, threatening to spin out of control, just like me. I find myself strangely impelled to hug pillows, chant mantras, and probe for breeches in what has been, up to now, my impenetrable frame of reference that the Diggers gave to me free of charge back in those rather idyllic, stupid, days of yore.

Listen all you hustlers! Don’t give up, send digital transmissions...crypto-brainiacs will download and dump...."What a dump!"...hook pinkies over the hardlines....put a crowbar in that glimmer of insanity you call a mind and pry open that tuna can skull of yours and smile.

The first problem: Like all the misery penciled in and scheduled for Job by demons and gods too punch-drunk on their own pulchritude, I too ponder life’s lousy timing and incredibly bad taste in humor, waiting for the break that ultimately will only transpire, with my luck, at the slacker end of the rope and once again I’ll have to trod up Alfred’s 13 steps (a movie I’ve never been able to sit through) and take my place at my desk, hands folded, singing “Good Morning to You” to some numbskull who represents my first and best argument for forced sterilization, awaiting the inevitable swinging open of the trap door when I get back from lunch. So I sit here, broken hearted, paid my dime and only………..

Second problem (I never seem to have a scarcity of problems): Forces irrational, short-tempered, and zealous in their labors to fling culpability for wars and other damages unto any nearby victim, like yesterday’s pesky booger, are attempting to unseat my customarily erratic and inconsistent mental state. No amount of reality can thwart their Judy Garland/Mickey Rooney paranoid fantasies, so surreptitious strategies and furtive senseless gestures are in order immediately, purposely obfuscating messages in order to confuse small and petty minds. Persevere.

I’m quite sure that very few want the surge ‘defeated’. Maybe they didn’t want the surge to happen, but now that it is happening I’m sure they want it to succeed.

Sorry I was unclear. They want the idea of the surge defeated. And they still do. It isn't happening yet to any significant degree.

Also note that your citation says that 58% do not want Congress to cut funding.

I know, I made sure to include that to give the whole picture. That's why the dems should not try to pass a bill that defunds the war. They should just pass a budget that, while popular, bush will veto, causing him to defund his own war.

And no one in their right mind will think Bush vetoes a Defense Budget because HE wants to cut funding to troops. Congress will not be able to hide the reason behind any such veto of a defense budget.

Whether he *wants* to cut funding doesn't matter. He *will* be the one doing so. What is he going to say? "I had to veto that defense funding bill"? For what reason? "Oh cause the dems wouldn't let me give the sunnis another 20,000 troops to shoot at"?

Yeah that'll go over well. If Bush vetos funding then yes he is the one cutting off the funding. This is a pretty simple logical proposition: would the troops have funding if he hadn't vetoed? Yes. Do they have funding if he does? No.

Also note that your citation says that 58% do not want Congress to cut funding.

And no one in their right mind will think Bush vetoes a Defense Budget because HE wants to cut funding to troops. Congress will not be able to hide the reason behind any such veto of a defense budget.

The point that’s being missed, that Democrat officeholders, understand, apparently more so than the Nutroots, is that not everyone claiming “Democrat’ as their party banner, is in agreement with the nutroots on the war, or anything else for that matter. More to the point, there are still enough people who do not subscribe to the nutroots way of non-thinking, as to make winning election purely by way of the shrillness of the nutroots impossible.

The problem with your argument is that it is false. Not only do the majority of democrats want the troops out of iraq the majority of ALL AMERICANS want the troops out:

Nearly two-thirds of Americans - 63 percent - want US troops home from Iraq by the end of 2008, according to a new poll published on Tuesday by the newspaper USA Today.

One month after US President George Bush announced a plan to expand the number of US soldiers in Iraq by 21 500, 57 percent of those polled said they wanted a cap on troop levels.

However, only 40 percent supported proposals in Congress to block funding for the war to force Bush to bring home US forces, while 58 percent opposed such a move.

link

People want the troops home, they want the surge defeated, but they don't want funds cut. So the dems should send up a defense budget that precludes a surge and let bush veto. He cut the funds then, not them.

How so? They’re going to not pass a defense budget?

Exactly.

They send up a defense budget that definds Iraq. Bush vetos it. Now *BUSH* is the one who has cut funding to the troops not the dems. They offered a bill, he refused. And he has no power to get money without them.

It is win-win for the dems (not to mention the troops who get to come home). Of course that means it makes entirely too much sense for the dems to do.

"The bush can veto it" argument is a non-starter since Bush needs funds for the DoD and he can;t get them himself.

Matt Stoller has given Congressional Democrats one month to change the world and end the war. They’ve failed so he’s asking if the netroots should launch primary challenges. They just won back Congress and they’re thinking about the n...

But hey can still “feel” screwed over because what they see as clearly the right course of action isn’t being taken. It is one thing for the democrats in the minority to feed them red meat rhetoric, but it is another thing to only get the sizzle and not the meat when the democrats are in the majority.

The point that's being missed, that Democrat officeholders, understand, apparently more so than the Nutroots, is that not everyone claiming "Democrat' as their party banner, is in agreement with the nutroots on the war, or anything else for that matter. More to the point, there are still enough people who do not subscribe to the nutroots way of non-thinking, as to make winning election purely by way of the shrillness of the nutroots impossible.

Indeed, if the Edwards business of the last couple weeks proves anything, it's that people like Stoller are more a problem for the Democrats, than they are a solution.

In the end, that's what has Stoller and the DU(h) crowd so annoyed.