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	<title>Comments on: Different Rules for Different Classes of Citizens</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Wed, 25 Nov 2009 23:36:07 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Nightly Ramble: The Ad Campaign Edition &#124; BitsBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1055525</link>
		<dc:creator>Nightly Ramble: The Ad Campaign Edition &#124; BitsBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 20:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1055525</guid>
		<description>[...] Corruption, or corruption in general?  Over at OTB, Steve Verdon goes into Radley Balko mode on a story of police corruption. Frankly, I&#8217;ve always thought that Balko was over the top on [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Corruption, or corruption in general?  Over at OTB, Steve Verdon goes into Radley Balko mode on a story of police corruption. Frankly, I&#8217;ve always thought that Balko was over the top on [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1055183</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Jun 2009 02:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1055183</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well you&#039;ll have to forgive, it is rare for a case involving some sort of LEO to get to that point, hence my initial reaction.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Shrug)
What, you think I don&#039;t know? Nothing to it. I was concentrating on the actions of the police, not necessarily the response of the police hierarchy, and the courts.  The reaction to the crimes are certainly problematic.  Of larger concern, however are the crimes themselves.  

The other story coming out of that same police department that may interest you, is with regards to another cop... A sergeant, I think.  High on Coke, driving his personal vehicle, he backsides a stalled car in the middle of the outer loop (I-390) causing a pregnant woman to go into premature labor.  Recognizing that he is burned toast if he sticks around, he takes off, leaves the scene of the accident, and it takes several hours for the local constabulary to admit that one of its own has been involved in the wreck.  By that time of course, the DUI is legally questionable at least. 

At the moment, that particular case has caused an investigation into the conduct of the entire department who was on duty that night.  At issue, were they covering for him?  Well, no duh.

I&#039;m annoyed, because our member time when that particular Police department was something special, as such things go.

That said, though, The question comes up; what causes all this?  

It seems to me the trying to get a bad cop fired, has approximately the same chance to it as getting a bad teacher fired, or perhaps a city councilman and former mayor arrested for his crimes, (The bitch set me up!) or a congressman with cash in his freezer. 

Don&#039;t mistake my comment for making excuses for the cops in question.  

But I do wonder two things.  In the case of the police, I have to wonder how much of what we see here is procedure established by union -agreed upon -work -rules.  Certainly, that&#039;s the case with trying to get bad teachers fired.  I wonder if agreeing to this nonsense, we&#039;ve asked for these kind of incidents to occur.  

And secondly, how much of it is bad policy set forward with the purpose of staying out of lawsuit territory?  

Frankly, though, I think we&#039;re foolish if we ignore that there&#039;s a trend here that involves far more than just the guys in the blue uniforms. This is by no means a case of not enough law, and not enough oversight.  This is a situation in all these cases of too much law, and too much power in the hands of those enforcing it.  It&#039;s true enough that 20 and 40 years ago, there was less of the incidence of this kind of thing.  Then again, and we were better people, then, too. Finding someone for the job of &#039;policeman&#039; who was brave, honest, and true, was far less of a task, back in the day, because it was far less rare to find such a person in the general population.  We got away with a degree of power in the hands of the police that we did, for that reason.

Those days, I fear, are passed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well you'll have to forgive, it is rare for a case involving some sort of LEO to get to that point, hence my initial reaction.</p></blockquote>
<p>(Shrug)<br />
What, you think I don't know? Nothing to it. I was concentrating on the actions of the police, not necessarily the response of the police hierarchy, and the courts.  The reaction to the crimes are certainly problematic.  Of larger concern, however are the crimes themselves.  </p>
<p>The other story coming out of that same police department that may interest you, is with regards to another cop... A sergeant, I think.  High on Coke, driving his personal vehicle, he backsides a stalled car in the middle of the outer loop (I-390) causing a pregnant woman to go into premature labor.  Recognizing that he is burned toast if he sticks around, he takes off, leaves the scene of the accident, and it takes several hours for the local constabulary to admit that one of its own has been involved in the wreck.  By that time of course, the DUI is legally questionable at least. </p>
<p>At the moment, that particular case has caused an investigation into the conduct of the entire department who was on duty that night.  At issue, were they covering for him?  Well, no duh.</p>
<p>I'm annoyed, because our member time when that particular Police department was something special, as such things go.</p>
<p>That said, though, The question comes up; what causes all this?  </p>
<p>It seems to me the trying to get a bad cop fired, has approximately the same chance to it as getting a bad teacher fired, or perhaps a city councilman and former mayor arrested for his crimes, (The bitch set me up!) or a congressman with cash in his freezer. </p>
<p>Don't mistake my comment for making excuses for the cops in question.  </p>
<p>But I do wonder two things.  In the case of the police, I have to wonder how much of what we see here is procedure established by union -agreed upon -work -rules.  Certainly, that's the case with trying to get bad teachers fired.  I wonder if agreeing to this nonsense, we've asked for these kind of incidents to occur.  </p>
<p>And secondly, how much of it is bad policy set forward with the purpose of staying out of lawsuit territory?  </p>
<p>Frankly, though, I think we're foolish if we ignore that there's a trend here that involves far more than just the guys in the blue uniforms. This is by no means a case of not enough law, and not enough oversight.  This is a situation in all these cases of too much law, and too much power in the hands of those enforcing it.  It's true enough that 20 and 40 years ago, there was less of the incidence of this kind of thing.  Then again, and we were better people, then, too. Finding someone for the job of 'policeman' who was brave, honest, and true, was far less of a task, back in the day, because it was far less rare to find such a person in the general population.  We got away with a degree of power in the hands of the police that we did, for that reason.</p>
<p>Those days, I fear, are passed.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1055026</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 22:03:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1055026</guid>
		<description>Gustopher,

The informant is now claiming the initial claims that the warrant was based on are a lie.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090223_Cop_added_insult_to_injury__she_says.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Link&lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;Cujdik is at the center of a joint federal and local investigation that arose after Martinez claimed in a Daily News article that Cujdik told him to lie about some drug buys so that the officer could obtain search warrants to enter homes of suspected drug dealers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Here is Cujdik&#039;s attorney,

&lt;blockquote&gt;Cujdik&#039;s attorney, George Bochetto, has said the allegations are untrue and are based on the word of a &quot;professional liar.&quot;&lt;/blockquote&gt;

So Cujdik was trusting a professional liar as his confidential informant.  A rather incompetent police officer and at the very least should be fired.

&lt;blockquote&gt;He [Cujdik] emerged with a teddy bear that he said contained a small pouch secreted inside. That pouch contained 47 packets of cocaine.

Police also seized $560 from a bedroom dresser, McDonnell testified.

Gonzalez and Nunez swear they had roughly $1,000, mostly in large bills, that they&#039;d squirreled away for rent and Christmas presents.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Gee sounds just like the mom-&amp;-pop grocery stores...geee what a coincidence.

Yeah, Cujdik is the victim.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gustopher,</p>
<p>The informant is now claiming the initial claims that the warrant was based on are a lie.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.philly.com/philly/news/20090223_Cop_added_insult_to_injury__she_says.html" rel="nofollow">Link</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Cujdik is at the center of a joint federal and local investigation that arose after Martinez claimed in a Daily News article that Cujdik told him to lie about some drug buys so that the officer could obtain search warrants to enter homes of suspected drug dealers.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here is Cujdik's attorney,</p>
<blockquote><p>Cujdik's attorney, George Bochetto, has said the allegations are untrue and are based on the word of a "professional liar."</p></blockquote>
<p>So Cujdik was trusting a professional liar as his confidential informant.  A rather incompetent police officer and at the very least should be fired.</p>
<blockquote><p>He [Cujdik] emerged with a teddy bear that he said contained a small pouch secreted inside. That pouch contained 47 packets of cocaine.</p>
<p>Police also seized $560 from a bedroom dresser, McDonnell testified.</p>
<p>Gonzalez and Nunez swear they had roughly $1,000, mostly in large bills, that they'd squirreled away for rent and Christmas presents.</p></blockquote>
<p>Gee sounds just like the mom-&#038;-pop grocery stores...geee what a coincidence.</p>
<p>Yeah, Cujdik is the victim.</p>
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		<title>By: Gustopher</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054986</link>
		<dc:creator>Gustopher</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 21:06:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054986</guid>
		<description>Just to play devil&#039;s advocate, wouldn&#039;t an LEO who interacts with assorted scumbags all day be more likely to be the victim of false complaints?

The scumbags in question might be trying to discredit the testimony of an officer who arrested them, or just spitefully trying to hurt the officer and his or her career.

Separating the scumbags from actual victims of crimes committed by the police is likely to be non-trivial.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to play devil's advocate, wouldn't an LEO who interacts with assorted scumbags all day be more likely to be the victim of false complaints?</p>
<p>The scumbags in question might be trying to discredit the testimony of an officer who arrested them, or just spitefully trying to hurt the officer and his or her career.</p>
<p>Separating the scumbags from actual victims of crimes committed by the police is likely to be non-trivial.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054973</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 20:04:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054973</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, no, that wasn&#039;t my point.
Indeed, rather the opposite.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well you&#039;ll have to forgive, it is rare for a case involving some sort of LEO to get to that point, hence my initial reaction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, no, that wasn't my point.<br />
Indeed, rather the opposite.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well you'll have to forgive, it is rare for a case involving some sort of LEO to get to that point, hence my initial reaction.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Florack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054939</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Florack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 18:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054939</guid>
		<description>Well, no, that wasn&#039;t my point.
Indeed, rather the opposite.

I know something of the situation I linked, you see, and I suspect there&#039;s far more to the situation I linked, to say no more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, no, that wasn't my point.<br />
Indeed, rather the opposite.</p>
<p>I know something of the situation I linked, you see, and I suspect there's far more to the situation I linked, to say no more.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054937</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:58:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054937</guid>
		<description>Oh, so nothing to worry about then.  Please....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, so nothing to worry about then.  Please....</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054932</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054932</guid>
		<description>Parallel:

http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parallel:</p>
<p><a href="http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/different_rules_of_different_classes_of_citizens/comment-page-1/#comment-1054933</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Jun 2009 17:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=37058#comment-1054933</guid>
		<description>Parallel:

http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Parallel:</p>
<p><a href="http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx" rel="nofollow">http://rnews.com/content/top_stories/473592/pignato-jury-chosen--opening-statements-begin/Default.aspx</a></p>
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