Kerry did not “acquit himself honorably or well” and urinated on graves for political advancement later. McCain served in “Nam” for over 6 years with 5.5 of them in captivity. "

IIRC, every member of Kerry's crew supported him, except for the one guy he had court-martialed. I'll take the record as proof of his actions.

True, but the thing about McCain is that he's spent the rest of his life working very hard to live that down, so to speak. The hero of the Hanoi Hilton (and I think that he was a genuine hero) is long dead.

"Some might see that as demonstrating courage and leadership. I’m one of them. I’ve got plenty of problems with McCain, but I believe that he as proven his ability to make the hard choices and stick with them. His opponents seem to be more like poll-watching will-o-the-whims."

He's demonstrated repeated ability to make the wrong choices, and to stick with them long after most people have figured them out. He's demonstrated to bullsh*t the press shamelessly, and to get away with it (which pretty much seemed merely to involve liquoring them up). He's demonstrated dishonesty and lack of character - 'hard choices'?

The 2000 election pitted George W. Bush, who was trained to fly an obsolete fighter jet during the closing days of Vietnam and sort of served in the National Guard afterwards

:)

Well, when offered an easy but dishonorable course of action he remained steadfast.

Some might see that as demonstrating courage and leadership. I'm one of them. I've got plenty of problems with McCain, but I believe that he as proven his ability to make the hard choices and stick with them. His opponents seem to be more like poll-watching will-o-the-whims.

That Kerry and McCain served when others didn’t and that they acquitted themselves well under extreme stress redounds to their credit and earns them a certain amount of respect and deflects some lines of attack. But it’s not the end of the discussion.

I served in Nam for 15 months as a Riverine Patrol Officer, 2.5 of them with a self-aggrandizing Kerry who I met a few times in Nha Be in December of '68.

Kerry did not "acquit himself honorably or well" and urinated on graves for political advancement later. McCain served in "Nam" for over 6 years with 5.5 of them in captivity.

You're welcome to your opinion but get your facts straight. Implying equivalence of their service is worthy of extreme scorn. Which I gladly offer you.

Proud member of Swiftboat Veterans for Truth.

Aside from his service record, his recent statements regarding Iran and its role in Iraq, and his utter ignorance of the differences dividing the Shia and Sunni, and which is aligned with bin Laden, show that his understanding of the worldwide strategic situation is near zero.

FDR had been afflicted with polio and unable to serve in the military. He was none-the-less an effective war time leader.

Bill Clinton had no military service. He was also incompetent in the deployment of our military - think Somolia and the ineffective response to bin Laden. This had much more to do with politics and Clinton's character than his ability to comprehend our military's capabilities and limitations.

I think voluntary and honorable military service is one more tool in assessing the mosaic of a candidates character. Do they act based on principle or based on political expediency? The former will always be an effective leader - the only question being do you want to follow where they will lead. The latter cannot be counted on to act with determination in the dark days of a crisis when casualties mount. They will be ruled by winds of polls.

Tell me Spencer, is every servicemember who earned a Purple Heart deserving of being insulted for not being able to duck?

Only if they are democrats apparantly.

We really do have short memories don't we?

“While we honor McCain’s military service, the fact is Americans want a real leader who offers real solutions, not a blatant opportunist who doesn’t understand the economy and is promising to keep our troops in Iraq for 100 years.”

Well, seems to me the 'not' part of that statement encompasses both Clinton and Obama, rather nicely, although Dean would never say so.

And is it important? John Kerry seemed to think so, for reasons of his own, when he was busy gaming the system to get medals.... and changing his middle name to 'served in Vietnam'. Granted, somewhat less so when he was busy borrowing medals to toss over the White House fence.

The issue, clearly, is results gets attach to invoking a history of military service., which wuld seem to explain the different reaction to Kerry's military service then, and McCain's now.

Just to be difficult.

Yeah, well, let's examine this.

Do you want your president to be someone who’s most famous experience is one of an erstwhile husband, himself a president, whose biggest accomplishment while in office is Monica Lewinsky? Bad enough that the guy has to run around on you... but with THAT? A mark of failure by any measure. A big one.

On the other hand, do we really want Obama, whose biggest accomplishment was... what was it again, he's claiming to have done?

I don't like McCain for a number of reasons. But among them, sure isn't the fact of his service?

Tell me Spencer, is every servicemember who earned a Purple Heart deserving of being insulted for not being able to duck?

Seriously, the people who insult McCain's sacrifice, what he went through, for whatever purpose are like a cancer.