Yes. That’s called ‘Freedom”.

And the parents, of course will make chocies about what school to send heir kids to, at least partially based on the curriculum. That’s called being responsible in freedom.

So, a Madrasa that teaches hatred of Jews and America would be an acceptable substitute to our current public school system in your view?

What happens when all of the schools in my area teach creationism as fact, because I live in a very conservative area and most parents will want a school that teaches that, but I want my children to learn actual science? Who pays for transporting my kid 50 miles to the nearest school that does that?

Has it not occurred to you that this goal is in fact causing the horrendous failings, and that your demand is that we continue the failings?

Trying to reach that goal may have caused a failing in our school system, but that doesn't mean the goal is not a good one, or that we should not be trying to reach it. As detailed above, having a non-standardized education system may very well _remove_ my choice of sending my kids to a school that teaches science. Certainly we shouldn't be letting schools teach kids anything, without regard to the truthfulness of the information, should we?

So each private school will decide what to charge, what to teach, where to teach, and who to teach?

Yes. That's called 'Freedom".

And the parents, of course will make chocies about what school to send heir kids to, at least partially based on the curriculum. That's called being responsible in freedom.

Unless you can detail some plan where a privatized school system will offer a free, standardized education

Has it not occurred to you that this goal is in fact causing the horrendous failings, and that your demand is that we continue the failings?

Which means, just about anything.

Which means just about nothing at this point, because nobody is ready to take the government's place.

By your own point, opening the education monopoly up to private concerns eliminates the situation where most parents only have one choice.

So each private school will decide what to charge, what to teach, where to teach, and who to teach?

Can you imagine that a better product wouldnt be produced from that scenario?

Yes, I can. I don't imagine any private company would want to run a school in a poor, crime-stricken neighborhood. I don't imagine any private company would want to run a free-admissions school. I don't imagine any private company would stand up to the parents of a majority of the students and insist on teaching factual science instead of pseudo-science.

Yes, I have and the ONLY suitable chocie, at that. Privatize.

Not currently a suitable choice, for the reasons listed above. Unless you can detail some plan where a privatized school system will offer a free, standardized education to any and all students wishing to attend, and provide free and safe transportation for any and all students to and from said schools.

But when you place the responsibility for education on the shoulders of the parents and not the government, the parents become more involved. I submit that most of the current cultural issues… the programmed mediocrity, I call it, falls in the realm of lack of parental involvement.

Okay, then the question now is how do we get parents involved in their children's education? I don't see how privatization would change parental interest.

And how do we improve the culture of a population?

Well, as has been noted, the two issues are linked. But when you place the responsibility for education on the shoulders of the parents and not the government, the parents become more involved. I submit that most of the current cultural issues... the programmed mediocrity, I call it, falls in the realm of lack of parental involvement. When it's the government's task, the individual tends to be less concerned about it. "It's their job".

We see where such attitudes have gotten us when we read the record of the government schools.

The disadvantage for these kids, is unlike kids who have educated parents, they don’t come to school already equipped with tools to help them learn and understand more easily what they are learning.

I would agree that if we are talking about schools at the elite level, that this can make a difference. However, I disagree that this is the primary reason certain populations in the US are trapped in cycles of poverty.

There are countries in the world that started off extremely uneducated, but in 50 years have made a great deal of progress. For example, my grandfather didn't even enter high school, much less finish.

I agree that tool aquisition is better when parents value education, and strive to pass that value on to their children, but if they are undeducated, they still put up some road blocks to learning-it isn't insurmountable, but it is more difficult.

I work in a predominately poor (well below poverty line) school district. The biggest road block I see to educating a lot of the poorer children, even when parents are supportive and involved is the lack of experience.

These kids have small vocabularies, most have not traveled outside the state, most have not even been to a large city (we live in rural NH, the biggest city isn't all that big). Many of them haven't even seen the ocean, even though an hours drive could get them there.

The disadvantage for these kids, is unlike kids who have educated parents, they don't come to school already equipped with tools to help them learn and understand more easily what they are learning.

So education can make a difference, although teachers can provide more enrichment into the school day to help make up for some of these.

I’m fine with removing government from the education system, as long as we replace it with something better.

Which means, just about anything.

Private orgs will always be willing to fill the void, I’m just worried about what they’ll fill it with

I'm not.... not nearly as much as I am worried about what government has filled it with. By your own point, opening the education monopoly up to private concerns eliminates the situation where most parents only have one choice.

Can you imagine that a better product wouldn't be produced from that scenario?

I’m pretty sure that isn’t the only aspect left, but even if it were, you still haven’t proposed a suitable replacement.

Yes, I have... and the ONLY suitable chocie, at that.
Privatize.

Like it or not you’re arguing to remove Government from the educational system… and so am I.

I'm fine with removing government from the education system, as long as we replace it with something better.

That said, the answer is up to the parents…. and that choice will be far easier to make, once we’re not taking all that money in school taxes from them.

It's only up to the parents when they have 2 or more equal choices, right now they don't. Since schools I believe are largely paid for in property taxes, and many poor people are renters, I'm not sure how much financial difference it would make to them.

Do you think for a minute that private orgs won’t leap up to fill the void?

Private orgs will always be willing to fill the void, I'm just worried about what they'll fill it with. Blackwater filled a void in Iraq, but that doesn't mean they were better at it than the US Army. Certainly I don't want Blackwater's educational equivalent in charge of my child's education.

Clearly, then the problem lies elsewhere…. and the only aspect left is the government itself

I'm pretty sure that isn't the only aspect left, but even if it were, you still haven't proposed a suitable replacement.

You can by truckloads of coal, or whatever other resources you want with money.

Yes, but that coal isn't going to improve anybody's education. What matters is _what_ you buy with the money, not how much money you spend on it.

Materials and resources? A few textbooks, pencils, etc., don’t seem like they would cost that much.

Multiply that by millions of students, and it adds up quick.

But here’s a thought experiment. Suppose I said I would give free tutoring to any disadvantaged high school student who showed up at the public library. How many would actually come?

Depends on many factors, where is your library located? Is your target customer going to be available (i.e, not working) during the time you're there? Still your point is taken, our current culture doesn't treat education as valuable, so even offering it for free won't attrack too many people.

The non-existance of, or low quality of, resources, material, and teachers in the public school they are zones for.

Like it or not you're arguing to remove Government from the educational system... and so am I.

Who will provide the education if not the government?

Much of your commentary is explained by this one question. That said, the answer is up to the parents.... and that choice will be far easier to make, once we're not taking all that money in school taxes from them. Do you think for a minute that private orgs won't leap up to fill the void? and they'll do it cheaper and more effectively. Government has proven itself a poor custodian of the educational system As Mike B says:

To suggest that the problem with education in the US is resources is simply unsupportable by the evidence.

Clearly, then the problem lies elsewhere.... and the only aspect left is the government itself... who has records in nearly everything they attempt, as abysmal as the one surrounding their attempts at education.

I'll have more on this later, but I think I've painted a large enough dayglow circle on my back to keep you busy for now.

Let’s break this down; What is preventing them from having such access?

The non-existance of, or low quality of, resources, material, and teachers in the public school they are zones for.

Teachers? Maybe. Materials and resources? A few textbooks, pencils, etc., don't seem like they would cost that much.

But here's a thought experiment. Suppose I said I would give free tutoring to any disadvantaged high school student who showed up at the public library. How many would actually come?

To suggest that the problem with education in the US is resources is simply unsupportable by the evidence.