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	<title>Comments on: English Only Laws</title>
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		<title>By: Low Sea</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-242121</link>
		<dc:creator>Low Sea</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Nov 2007 07:19:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-242121</guid>
		<description>I have a suggestion ... instead of &lt;strong&gt;&quot;English Only&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; how about &lt;strong&gt;&quot;English Always&quot;&lt;/strong&gt; ?  Here is what I mean:

Have you ever seen a Spanish language publication and  wondered what the title/headline means? Have you ever driven by a business with signage in Russian/Korean/Arabic etc and not had a clue what they were selling? &lt;em&gt;Why is that OK?&lt;/em&gt; Certainly I understand that merchants in Chinatown are going to advertise in Chinese because of the many local residents who are more comfortable in their native language. That&#039;s cool. But doesn&#039;t such &quot;Chinese Only&quot; advertising discriminate against English speaking consumers?

I propose a law be created that requires: &lt;strong&gt;(1)&lt;/strong&gt; all non-English commercial signage &lt;em&gt;(of any size)&lt;/em&gt; to include English translations in a reasonably sized subscript [some sort of % of the original text size]; &lt;strong&gt;(2)&lt;/strong&gt; all non-English publications must have English translations of headlines, titles, chapter names, and captions; and &lt;strong&gt;(3)&lt;/strong&gt; all non-English broadcasts should have English subtitles/2nd-Audio per whatever the same rules are that currently support these features in the other direction.

Such a law will have two powerful benefits: &lt;strong&gt;(A)&lt;/strong&gt; it will encourage the use of English in all commercial settings thus opening the door for potential customers that otherwise would avoid such businesses due to the language barrier, and &lt;strong&gt;(B)&lt;/strong&gt; increase the opportunity for non-English speakers to be exposed to English words for familiar products thus expanding their ability to shop at English speaking businesses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have a suggestion ... instead of <strong>"English Only"</strong> how about <strong>"English Always"</strong> ?  Here is what I mean:</p>
<p>Have you ever seen a Spanish language publication and  wondered what the title/headline means? Have you ever driven by a business with signage in Russian/Korean/Arabic etc and not had a clue what they were selling? <em>Why is that OK?</em> Certainly I understand that merchants in Chinatown are going to advertise in Chinese because of the many local residents who are more comfortable in their native language. That's cool. But doesn't such "Chinese Only" advertising discriminate against English speaking consumers?</p>
<p>I propose a law be created that requires: <strong>(1)</strong> all non-English commercial signage <em>(of any size)</em> to include English translations in a reasonably sized subscript [some sort of % of the original text size]; <strong>(2)</strong> all non-English publications must have English translations of headlines, titles, chapter names, and captions; and <strong>(3)</strong> all non-English broadcasts should have English subtitles/2nd-Audio per whatever the same rules are that currently support these features in the other direction.</p>
<p>Such a law will have two powerful benefits: <strong>(A)</strong> it will encourage the use of English in all commercial settings thus opening the door for potential customers that otherwise would avoid such businesses due to the language barrier, and <strong>(B)</strong> increase the opportunity for non-English speakers to be exposed to English words for familiar products thus expanding their ability to shop at English speaking businesses.</p>
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		<title>By: ChineseGuy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-235003</link>
		<dc:creator>ChineseGuy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 15:09:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-235003</guid>
		<description>I am a Chinese guy working in a high-tech company 
established by American Jewish people. Most of my colleagues including my boss do NOT always speak English in the workplace, they speak Hebrew to each other. Of course, we Chinese folks enjoy our freedom to chat in Chinese. 

Nobody gives a damn about &quot;English Only&quot;, there is no such policy in our company. We are happy to work and live in a harmony and friendly environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am a Chinese guy working in a high-tech company<br />
established by American Jewish people. Most of my colleagues including my boss do NOT always speak English in the workplace, they speak Hebrew to each other. Of course, we Chinese folks enjoy our freedom to chat in Chinese. </p>
<p>Nobody gives a damn about "English Only", there is no such policy in our company. We are happy to work and live in a harmony and friendly environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234925</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 10:34:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234925</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;How many Americans are moving to Europe to take jobs for someone other than their own government and refusing to integrate into the society?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Admittedly the numbers are relatively small, but most of the Americans I have met here have done very little to integrate themselves into the society and remain in thought, dress, and language American.
&lt;blockquote&gt;Heck, most American soldiers I knew at least made some effort to learn German even though they were living and working in an American environment.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
and most people who move to America, whether from Mexico or elsewhere, make efforts to learn English. 
That is not what this law is about.  It is being deliberately framed to stir up nativist sentiment.  Then any disagreement can be tarred as being against business and against America.  Last cycle it was the national anthem being sung in Spanish, this cycle it is English only, next cycle it will be something else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>How many Americans are moving to Europe to take jobs for someone other than their own government and refusing to integrate into the society?</p></blockquote>
<p>Admittedly the numbers are relatively small, but most of the Americans I have met here have done very little to integrate themselves into the society and remain in thought, dress, and language American.</p>
<blockquote><p>Heck, most American soldiers I knew at least made some effort to learn German even though they were living and working in an American environment.</p></blockquote>
<p>and most people who move to America, whether from Mexico or elsewhere, make efforts to learn English.<br />
That is not what this law is about.  It is being deliberately framed to stir up nativist sentiment.  Then any disagreement can be tarred as being against business and against America.  Last cycle it was the national anthem being sung in Spanish, this cycle it is English only, next cycle it will be something else.</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234820</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Nov 2007 06:17:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234820</guid>
		<description>I recently went car shopping in Illinois&#039; second largest city. Three of Five dealerships visited had NO SALESPERSON able to speak English!
Nobody benefits from the Babelization of America.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I recently went car shopping in Illinois' second largest city. Three of Five dealerships visited had NO SALESPERSON able to speak English!<br />
Nobody benefits from the Babelization of America.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234481</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234481</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;You mean like virtually every American I have met in Europe?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

How many Americans are moving to Europe to take jobs for someone other than their own government and refusing to integrate into the society?  Heck, most American soldiers I knew at least made some effort to learn German even though they were living and working in an American environment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>You mean like virtually every American I have met in Europe?</p></blockquote>
<p>How many Americans are moving to Europe to take jobs for someone other than their own government and refusing to integrate into the society?  Heck, most American soldiers I knew at least made some effort to learn German even though they were living and working in an American environment.</p>
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		<title>By: Grewgills</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234428</link>
		<dc:creator>Grewgills</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 22:02:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234428</guid>
		<description>This is ultimately about 1-2 hundred cases a year and the majority of those are about people being fired for speaking Spanish on break.  At least one case involves a woman being fired for greeting her friend by saying &quot;buenos diaz&quot; when she first arrived at work.
This is not about solving a large or even real problem.  It is an early election year stunt designed to create a divisive issue, much like the whole national anthem being sung in Spanish brouhaha.
&lt;blockquote&gt;The idea that people would simultaneously leave their native land for the opportunities available here but still feel the need to maintain their heritage, including dressing and speaking in the manner they did back home, is simply bizarre.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
You mean like virtually every American I have met in Europe?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is ultimately about 1-2 hundred cases a year and the majority of those are about people being fired for speaking Spanish on break.  At least one case involves a woman being fired for greeting her friend by saying "buenos diaz" when she first arrived at work.<br />
This is not about solving a large or even real problem.  It is an early election year stunt designed to create a divisive issue, much like the whole national anthem being sung in Spanish brouhaha.</p>
<blockquote><p>The idea that people would simultaneously leave their native land for the opportunities available here but still feel the need to maintain their heritage, including dressing and speaking in the manner they did back home, is simply bizarre.</p></blockquote>
<p>You mean like virtually every American I have met in Europe?</p>
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		<title>By: Tano</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234343</link>
		<dc:creator>Tano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:52:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234343</guid>
		<description>I think there is a tendency to romanticize the assimilation that took place in the past.

When I grew up in &quot;da city&quot; there were no Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, German-Americans etc. There were only Italians, Irish and Germans. We all had relatives who never learned English. They were of the generation that wanted a new life, but also needed to maintain some sense of a coherent identity.

Later generations naturally formed our identities based on our experinces which were exclusively formed in America (well in New York at least...).

Thats the way things work. If the numbers in Latino communities today are such that there is a bit more of a buffer, a larger native-speaking community to be immersed in, and the result is that full homogenization takes place slower, so what? The process is relentless none the less. 

Children born in America will deal with other Americans all their lives, they will not be able to remain ghettoized, nor would they wish to.

Maybe if those who are really concerned about this want to aid the assimilation process, who want current immigrants to behave like previous ones, they might consider erecting institutional channels to citizenship for those who are so well integrated into our economy.

My advice is to just chill out on all this. 
It gets promoted as a big political issue by those who either have no sense of the dynamics of immigrants, or who have some nastier nativist agenda.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think there is a tendency to romanticize the assimilation that took place in the past.</p>
<p>When I grew up in "da city" there were no Italian-Americans, Irish-Americans, German-Americans etc. There were only Italians, Irish and Germans. We all had relatives who never learned English. They were of the generation that wanted a new life, but also needed to maintain some sense of a coherent identity.</p>
<p>Later generations naturally formed our identities based on our experinces which were exclusively formed in America (well in New York at least...).</p>
<p>Thats the way things work. If the numbers in Latino communities today are such that there is a bit more of a buffer, a larger native-speaking community to be immersed in, and the result is that full homogenization takes place slower, so what? The process is relentless none the less. </p>
<p>Children born in America will deal with other Americans all their lives, they will not be able to remain ghettoized, nor would they wish to.</p>
<p>Maybe if those who are really concerned about this want to aid the assimilation process, who want current immigrants to behave like previous ones, they might consider erecting institutional channels to citizenship for those who are so well integrated into our economy.</p>
<p>My advice is to just chill out on all this.<br />
It gets promoted as a big political issue by those who either have no sense of the dynamics of immigrants, or who have some nastier nativist agenda.</p>
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		<title>By: LaurenceB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234286</link>
		<dc:creator>LaurenceB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 18:58:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234286</guid>
		<description>Left to their own devices, humans will choose the most efficient language to communicate in.  An employer who chooses to dictate that language is probably making a mistake.  That having been said, I believe it is the right of the employer to make that mistake.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Left to their own devices, humans will choose the most efficient language to communicate in.  An employer who chooses to dictate that language is probably making a mistake.  That having been said, I believe it is the right of the employer to make that mistake.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234254</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 17:31:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234254</guid>
		<description>Should an employer require employees to speak English?  As someone who tries to be sympathetic to immigrants and who disagrees with most of the anti-immigrant proposals and rhetoric these days, I&#039;d say that is a tough question -- but for the private market, not the federal government.  Employers need to decide what works best for their business and then employees can decide whether they want to work for places who choose one way or the other.  We have too much red tape on employers already, if we keep adding more there will not be as many jobs for the immigrants to come get.

If EEOC is saying that any English-only rule is per se a violation incurring liability, that goes way too far.  If they are saying that there may be  some instances in which an employer&#039;s rule is in fact a disguised means of pointless discrimination (such as firing two employees caught speaking Spanish in an employer lunch room not accessible by customers), I&#039;d be willing to hear out their theory that the government has a role, although federal rules that require case-by-case analysis seem to invite too much costly litigation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Should an employer require employees to speak English?  As someone who tries to be sympathetic to immigrants and who disagrees with most of the anti-immigrant proposals and rhetoric these days, I'd say that is a tough question -- but for the private market, not the federal government.  Employers need to decide what works best for their business and then employees can decide whether they want to work for places who choose one way or the other.  We have too much red tape on employers already, if we keep adding more there will not be as many jobs for the immigrants to come get.</p>
<p>If EEOC is saying that any English-only rule is per se a violation incurring liability, that goes way too far.  If they are saying that there may be  some instances in which an employer's rule is in fact a disguised means of pointless discrimination (such as firing two employees caught speaking Spanish in an employer lunch room not accessible by customers), I'd be willing to hear out their theory that the government has a role, although federal rules that require case-by-case analysis seem to invite too much costly litigation.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234222</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:09:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234222</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The &quot;plumbers&quot; were Spanish only speakers.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That&#039;s an entirely separate issue, though. OSHA isn&#039;t requiring that people hire people who can&#039;t speak English.

In your case, presumably, the contractor was trying to get the cheapest possible laborers and simply didn&#039;t care that they spoke Spanish on the job.

In the case we&#039;re talking about, employers are forbidding employees from speaking other languages, even in casual conversation with co-workers, in the workplace.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The "plumbers" were Spanish only speakers.</p></blockquote>
<p>That's an entirely separate issue, though. OSHA isn't requiring that people hire people who can't speak English.</p>
<p>In your case, presumably, the contractor was trying to get the cheapest possible laborers and simply didn't care that they spoke Spanish on the job.</p>
<p>In the case we're talking about, employers are forbidding employees from speaking other languages, even in casual conversation with co-workers, in the workplace.</p>
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		<title>By: C.Wagener</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234219</link>
		<dc:creator>C.Wagener</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 16:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234219</guid>
		<description>Recently my pool was redone.  It is done in several stages, one of which is when the &quot;plumbers&quot; show up.  The &quot;plumbers&quot; were Spanish only speakers.

While I had gone over everything with the project manager who assured me I&#039;d always have someone that could speak English on premises, I still had a frantic moment explaining the negative affects of jackhammering a natural gas line in Spanglish.  Normally, the homeowner wouldn&#039;t be home.  In comparison, many OSHA rules seem trite.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Recently my pool was redone.  It is done in several stages, one of which is when the "plumbers" show up.  The "plumbers" were Spanish only speakers.</p>
<p>While I had gone over everything with the project manager who assured me I'd always have someone that could speak English on premises, I still had a frantic moment explaining the negative affects of jackhammering a natural gas line in Spanglish.  Normally, the homeowner wouldn't be home.  In comparison, many OSHA rules seem trite.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234212</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:40:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234212</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
Agreed but not on this scale.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
We&#039;ve never had a population on this scale before, either.

The closest analogue would be the 1890&#039;s and New York City, for example, had Yiddish-speaking neighborhoods for decades after the immigration of eastern European Jews to the United States.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
Agreed but not on this scale.
</p></blockquote>
<p>We've never had a population on this scale before, either.</p>
<p>The closest analogue would be the 1890's and New York City, for example, had Yiddish-speaking neighborhoods for decades after the immigration of eastern European Jews to the United States.</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234210</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:37:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234210</guid>
		<description>&quot;There have always been situations of linguistic isolation in the United States.&quot;

Agreed but not on this scale.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"There have always been situations of linguistic isolation in the United States."</p>
<p>Agreed but not on this scale.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Plunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234208</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Plunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:34:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234208</guid>
		<description>Patrick,

The federal government is already involved through the EEOC.  They are forcing the issue and are probably outside of the original intent of the law.  Now congress is looking to remedy the situation by removing the government intervention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Patrick,</p>
<p>The federal government is already involved through the EEOC.  They are forcing the issue and are probably outside of the original intent of the law.  Now congress is looking to remedy the situation by removing the government intervention.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/english_only_laws/comment-page-1/#comment-234202</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 15:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/english_only_laws/#comment-234202</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
And the first things most did was learn the language. The difference is that most now only want to work here, send money home and do not want to be an American. They don&#039;t want to assimilate.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
An exaggeration.  There continue to be communities in the United States in which German is the primary language.  Within living memory there have been communities in which French was the primary language (there may still be&#8212;I haven&#039;t been to Louisiana lately).

There have always been situations of linguistic isolation in the United States.  The difference today is that modern communications and transportation makes most linguistic isolation self-imposed and a political statement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
And the first things most did was learn the language. The difference is that most now only want to work here, send money home and do not want to be an American. They don't want to assimilate.
</p></blockquote>
<p>An exaggeration.  There continue to be communities in the United States in which German is the primary language.  Within living memory there have been communities in which French was the primary language (there may still be&mdash;I haven't been to Louisiana lately).</p>
<p>There have always been situations of linguistic isolation in the United States.  The difference today is that modern communications and transportation makes most linguistic isolation self-imposed and a political statement.</p>
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