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	<title>Comments on: Evil Grocery Chains</title>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14533</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14533</guid>
		<description>When I read the $45,000 figure, I was astonished.  When I moved here, I made less than that, and my benefits (health, etc) cost more than what they are getting.  

The big joke is the guy says he earned his salary because he had to memorize produce codes??  Spare me!  I worked at a grocery store when I was in HS, made $4.40/hour, and memorized the produce codes in less than a week.  I still remember the code for bananas (27!).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I read the $45,000 figure, I was astonished.  When I moved here, I made less than that, and my benefits (health, etc) cost more than what they are getting.  </p>
<p>The big joke is the guy says he earned his salary because he had to memorize produce codes??  Spare me!  I worked at a grocery store when I was in HS, made $4.40/hour, and memorized the produce codes in less than a week.  I still remember the code for bananas (27!).</p>
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		<title>By: Director Mitch</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14534</link>
		<dc:creator>Director Mitch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14534</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re late to the party.  California already went through this with the same blog/counter-blog entries a few months ago during our grocery workers strike.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You're late to the party.  California already went through this with the same blog/counter-blog entries a few months ago during our grocery workers strike.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14535</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14535</guid>
		<description>There was a chain in much of the south called &quot;The SuperStore.&quot; It was one of the first to combine groceries with a fair amount of other household goods. The workers went on strike and management said they could not afford to pay them any more.

The strike when on for over a year and finally the chain collapsed. Management meant it... They could not pay them any more and survive. The unions killed thousands of jobs.

Then when the chain closed its doors the asshat union leaders got on television and declared victory!

 Why they were not pummeled but the union members around them is something I still don&#039;t know.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There was a chain in much of the south called "The SuperStore." It was one of the first to combine groceries with a fair amount of other household goods. The workers went on strike and management said they could not afford to pay them any more.</p>
<p>The strike when on for over a year and finally the chain collapsed. Management meant it... They could not pay them any more and survive. The unions killed thousands of jobs.</p>
<p>Then when the chain closed its doors the asshat union leaders got on television and declared victory!</p>
<p> Why they were not pummeled but the union members around them is something I still don't know.</p>
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		<title>By: mark</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14536</link>
		<dc:creator>mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14536</guid>
		<description>Forgive me for being ignorant on the subject, but how much do reporters make?  I was under the impression that a reporter at a large newspaper (like the Wa Post) was making good money.  Maybe that is because I saw an internet site that listed the average reporter salary at $65,000...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Forgive me for being ignorant on the subject, but how much do reporters make?  I was under the impression that a reporter at a large newspaper (like the Wa Post) was making good money.  Maybe that is because I saw an internet site that listed the average reporter salary at $65,000...</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14537</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14537</guid>
		<description>The fundamental question is who deserves the money. Should the workers who sell the merchandise make the money or should the people who tell thewm to sell it make the money? I have no problem with a grocery clerk making 45k a year. If he makes more than people with college degrees, so what? Maybe those people that went to college should have thought a little more before picking their major.

Although I am a college student myself, I don&#039;t understand why college grads feel that they somehow deserve to make more than non-grads. If you&#039;re pissed about the grocery guy or the auto worker making more than you, maybe you should do what he did and join a union so you can get a fair wage and decent benefits.

Why not bring yourself up, instead of bring the grocery guy down?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fundamental question is who deserves the money. Should the workers who sell the merchandise make the money or should the people who tell thewm to sell it make the money? I have no problem with a grocery clerk making 45k a year. If he makes more than people with college degrees, so what? Maybe those people that went to college should have thought a little more before picking their major.</p>
<p>Although I am a college student myself, I don't understand why college grads feel that they somehow deserve to make more than non-grads. If you're pissed about the grocery guy or the auto worker making more than you, maybe you should do what he did and join a union so you can get a fair wage and decent benefits.</p>
<p>Why not bring yourself up, instead of bring the grocery guy down?</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14538</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14538</guid>
		<description>Jeff: I make more than the grocery clerk. 

My argument isn&#039;t that people with college degrees per se &quot;deserve&quot; more than those without. Auto mechanics, plumbers, and other skilled tradesmen make excellent wages.  I&#039;m saying that people with essentially no skills can&#039;t expect to make those kind of wages without providing benefits that exceed that to their employer.  If one can hire a high school kid with no degradation in performance--or, as is increasingly happening, have the customers scan the items themselves!--then it&#039;s not a high value added job.

Unions don&#039;t create value.  Simply demanding wages only works if there&#039;s no competition from non-union labor and it&#039;s a non-elastic good.  Those conditions don&#039;t apply here.

Mark: I&#039;m not sure about that particular reporter.  But entry level is in the low &#039;30s, from what I understand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff: I make more than the grocery clerk. </p>
<p>My argument isn't that people with college degrees per se "deserve" more than those without. Auto mechanics, plumbers, and other skilled tradesmen make excellent wages.  I'm saying that people with essentially no skills can't expect to make those kind of wages without providing benefits that exceed that to their employer.  If one can hire a high school kid with no degradation in performance--or, as is increasingly happening, have the customers scan the items themselves!--then it's not a high value added job.</p>
<p>Unions don't create value.  Simply demanding wages only works if there's no competition from non-union labor and it's a non-elastic good.  Those conditions don't apply here.</p>
<p>Mark: I'm not sure about that particular reporter.  But entry level is in the low '30s, from what I understand.</p>
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		<title>By: Nick</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14539</link>
		<dc:creator>Nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14539</guid>
		<description>&quot;Deserves the money&quot;?  Is this the mindset our colleges are instilling these days?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Deserves the money"?  Is this the mindset our colleges are instilling these days?</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Drum</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14540</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Drum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14540</guid>
		<description>This article certainly piqued my interest.  Here in Southern California we are all experts in grocery clerk wage scales these days, and the &lt;i&gt;top&lt;/i&gt; pay is about $37,000.  That&#039;s for somebody working full time, who has years of seniority, and who manages a department.  The average cashier makes more like $25-30,000.

I wonder what the difference is?  SoCal is obviously a high cost of living area, so it&#039;s not that.  It seems very odd that the difference would be so great.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This article certainly piqued my interest.  Here in Southern California we are all experts in grocery clerk wage scales these days, and the <i>top</i> pay is about $37,000.  That's for somebody working full time, who has years of seniority, and who manages a department.  The average cashier makes more like $25-30,000.</p>
<p>I wonder what the difference is?  SoCal is obviously a high cost of living area, so it's not that.  It seems very odd that the difference would be so great.</p>
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		<title>By: Joe Baby</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14541</link>
		<dc:creator>Joe Baby</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14541</guid>
		<description>I wish one of the frequent responses to these type of unfortunate stories (certainly unfortunate for the workers who are going to be facing a pay cut) was, &#039;hey, why not ditch this corporate crap and go work for myself?&#039;

The general response, however, is &#039;Big Greedy Corporation Pounds Helpless Individual--Again&#039;.

And that&#039;s reason I&#039;m still a big fan of legal immigration...ever seen how many of them open their own business?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wish one of the frequent responses to these type of unfortunate stories (certainly unfortunate for the workers who are going to be facing a pay cut) was, 'hey, why not ditch this corporate crap and go work for myself?'</p>
<p>The general response, however, is 'Big Greedy Corporation Pounds Helpless Individual--Again'.</p>
<p>And that's reason I'm still a big fan of legal immigration...ever seen how many of them open their own business?</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14542</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14542</guid>
		<description>Kevin,

The only thing I can think of is lack of competition here.  I&#039;m not sure what the situation is in SoCal, but there were apparently just two stores--Safeway and Giant--with a significant presence here until recently.  Even the Wal-Marts around here are pitiful.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin,</p>
<p>The only thing I can think of is lack of competition here.  I'm not sure what the situation is in SoCal, but there were apparently just two stores--Safeway and Giant--with a significant presence here until recently.  Even the Wal-Marts around here are pitiful.</p>
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		<title>By: Brian J.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14543</link>
		<dc:creator>Brian J.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14543</guid>
		<description>Back ten years ago, when I got out of school, I went to work for a small Missouri chain with a union contract in place.  I remember one of the checkers telling me that she was making over ten dollars an hour.  The way it was explained to me: after a certain number of hours worked, you got a nickel raise; after another span, you got a dime raise; after another span, twenty cents, and that it doubled like that for some time.  After a number of years, this checker was pulling in $21,000 a year. 

She knew that she couldn&#039;t make that anywhere else, so she was stuck like a serf owned by both the store and the union.  

Me, I came in with four years&#039; of perimeter department experience (produce) and started at the minimum for the store, $4.85 an hour.  It&#039;s heartening to know that a hard worker with experience would always be lower on the pay scale than the high school dropout who was hired a month before me.

I never did make it to the nickel raise.  And the chain&#039;s out of business.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back ten years ago, when I got out of school, I went to work for a small Missouri chain with a union contract in place.  I remember one of the checkers telling me that she was making over ten dollars an hour.  The way it was explained to me: after a certain number of hours worked, you got a nickel raise; after another span, you got a dime raise; after another span, twenty cents, and that it doubled like that for some time.  After a number of years, this checker was pulling in $21,000 a year. </p>
<p>She knew that she couldn't make that anywhere else, so she was stuck like a serf owned by both the store and the union.  </p>
<p>Me, I came in with four years' of perimeter department experience (produce) and started at the minimum for the store, $4.85 an hour.  It's heartening to know that a hard worker with experience would always be lower on the pay scale than the high school dropout who was hired a month before me.</p>
<p>I never did make it to the nickel raise.  And the chain's out of business.</p>
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		<title>By: Nash</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14544</link>
		<dc:creator>Nash</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14544</guid>
		<description>My sister pointed out during the Southern California grocery worker&#039;s strike that customer service at the supermarkets really took a dive.  Can&#039;t find an item on the shelves?  Neither could the low-wage temporary workers.  

I don&#039;t care how cheap Walmart&#039;s prices are.  I won&#039;t shop there because I hate the poor customer service they have due to their low wages and high rate of employee turnover.  But if the supermarkets think they can compete in price with Walmart by sacrificing customer service then they are shooting themselves in their own foot.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My sister pointed out during the Southern California grocery worker's strike that customer service at the supermarkets really took a dive.  Can't find an item on the shelves?  Neither could the low-wage temporary workers.  </p>
<p>I don't care how cheap Walmart's prices are.  I won't shop there because I hate the poor customer service they have due to their low wages and high rate of employee turnover.  But if the supermarkets think they can compete in price with Walmart by sacrificing customer service then they are shooting themselves in their own foot.</p>
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		<title>By: Little Miss Attila</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14545</link>
		<dc:creator>Little Miss Attila</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14545</guid>
		<description>More important: we don&#039;t know what the permanent damage was to the supermarket chains. A lot of people switched over to Trader Joe&#039;s, independent grocery stores, butcher shops, bakeries, and their local farmer&#039;s markets for produce.

It&#039;ll be interesting to see how many people come back.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>More important: we don't know what the permanent damage was to the supermarket chains. A lot of people switched over to Trader Joe's, independent grocery stores, butcher shops, bakeries, and their local farmer's markets for produce.</p>
<p>It'll be interesting to see how many people come back.</p>
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		<title>By: danielle</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14546</link>
		<dc:creator>danielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14546</guid>
		<description>I have worked with Albertson&#039;s in Washington State for two years and I am looking for a promotion from courtesy clerk to produce clerk. I would love to be a checker, once you have worked a certain amount of hours, your pay increases. A manager makes the same as a journeyman checker in the front end dept. For example, my boyfriend also works for Albertson&#039;s and makes the same $16.28 per hour that the checker whose been there for like 20 years and who still hasn&#039;t applied for a management position. The only benefit of being a manger is guaranteed hours. You never have the same shifts in a week and never are guaranteed the money. Each dept. in the store is on their own pay scale. Produce happens to be on the same pay scale as checker - bonus, however the other job I am going for max. out at $8.00 and as a courtesy clerk I have max. out at $7.52. It&#039;s a job for people in college, people working towards a goal. It is looked down upon to be a &quot;lifer&quot;. If grocery is your passion, then that&#039;s different, but if you just applied and got the job and have just never moved on - that&#039;s sad. I have goals, and they are not to be making $16.28 for the rest of my life. It&#039;s to be pulling in at least $60 grand a year as a Marriage Family Therapist. For my boyfriend, he would love to be a teacher - salary depending on the state we decide on. It&#039;s not a great job, but it&#039;s pretty good pay and benefits for a couple of kids trying to get by on some top ramen and cup of noodles!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have worked with Albertson's in Washington State for two years and I am looking for a promotion from courtesy clerk to produce clerk. I would love to be a checker, once you have worked a certain amount of hours, your pay increases. A manager makes the same as a journeyman checker in the front end dept. For example, my boyfriend also works for Albertson's and makes the same $16.28 per hour that the checker whose been there for like 20 years and who still hasn't applied for a management position. The only benefit of being a manger is guaranteed hours. You never have the same shifts in a week and never are guaranteed the money. Each dept. in the store is on their own pay scale. Produce happens to be on the same pay scale as checker - bonus, however the other job I am going for max. out at $8.00 and as a courtesy clerk I have max. out at $7.52. It's a job for people in college, people working towards a goal. It is looked down upon to be a "lifer". If grocery is your passion, then that's different, but if you just applied and got the job and have just never moved on - that's sad. I have goals, and they are not to be making $16.28 for the rest of my life. It's to be pulling in at least $60 grand a year as a Marriage Family Therapist. For my boyfriend, he would love to be a teacher - salary depending on the state we decide on. It's not a great job, but it's pretty good pay and benefits for a couple of kids trying to get by on some top ramen and cup of noodles!</p>
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		<title>By: Kalblog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/evil_grocery_chains/comment-page-1/#comment-14547</link>
		<dc:creator>Kalblog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=5594#comment-14547</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;I&#039;m In The Wrong Industry&lt;/strong&gt;
$45,000 for a grocery store clerk? All my sympathy for Safeway employees just dried up. The fact is, that&#039;s twice what most entry-level people in politics get, despite the fact that the latter group is made up of college graduates...

---</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>I'm In The Wrong Industry</strong><br />
$45,000 for a grocery store clerk? All my sympathy for Safeway employees just dried up. The fact is, that's twice what most entry-level people in politics get, despite the fact that the latter group is made up of college graduates...</p>
<p>---</p>
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