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	<title>Comments on: Federal Judge Voids Nebraska Gay Marriage Ban</title>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45980</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 May 2005 02:45:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45980</guid>
		<description>As someone who tends to be liberal on social issues, I&#039;m pleasantly surprised to see the noticeable difference between certain kinds political Conservatives (with a capital &quot;C&quot;). 

I see those who are social conservatives first and true conservative &quot;constructionists&quot; second and vice-versa. Personally, I wish the latter prevailed on the Right these days. Our national discourse would benefit greatly.

Judges, though fallible, know the law and the constitution better than most if not all of the people on these threads...regardless of who appointed them. I would be curious to see who appointed this judge and intend to find out. It wouldn&#039;t surprise me if he (or she) is a Bush 1 or Reagan appointee. It&#039;s worth noting that the judges who did make headlines in the Schiavo case and the story of the murdered family were Republican appointees who held up the constitution as they saw it.  

Talk of impeachment is nonesense as some true conservatives have pointed that out. Judges act outside of the pressure of public opinion. This is how it should be. When stories like this make headlines and go against what the reader wants, the reader needs to try to understand the basis of ruling before resorting to blind partisan bickering and talking points.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who tends to be liberal on social issues, I'm pleasantly surprised to see the noticeable difference between certain kinds political Conservatives (with a capital "C"). </p>
<p>I see those who are social conservatives first and true conservative "constructionists" second and vice-versa. Personally, I wish the latter prevailed on the Right these days. Our national discourse would benefit greatly.</p>
<p>Judges, though fallible, know the law and the constitution better than most if not all of the people on these threads...regardless of who appointed them. I would be curious to see who appointed this judge and intend to find out. It wouldn't surprise me if he (or she) is a Bush 1 or Reagan appointee. It's worth noting that the judges who did make headlines in the Schiavo case and the story of the murdered family were Republican appointees who held up the constitution as they saw it.  </p>
<p>Talk of impeachment is nonesense as some true conservatives have pointed that out. Judges act outside of the pressure of public opinion. This is how it should be. When stories like this make headlines and go against what the reader wants, the reader needs to try to understand the basis of ruling before resorting to blind partisan bickering and talking points.</p>
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		<title>By: drew</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45912</link>
		<dc:creator>drew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 21:51:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45912</guid>
		<description>Several posters here don&#039;t understand how the law works. A judge must preside over the arguments presented and the Constitution. The Judge struck down the Nebraska Constitution just as previous judges struck down Jim Crow laws. (For example, Georgia&#039;s constitution has been struck down numerous times.) Those upset about &quot;activist&quot; judges simply do not understand the grievances gays and lesbians are presenting to the Courts. If gays can form companies, join organizations, start limited liability companies, why can&#039;t they form marriages? The Judge asked what was the state&#039;s rational to prevent gays from entering marriage and found no argument was offered. Hence, virtually all the US constitutional arguments presented wipe out what Nebraska voters put in the Constitution. Remember, we are a democratic REPUBLIC. The will of the majority can not wipe out the rights of the minority and the individual.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Several posters here don't understand how the law works. A judge must preside over the arguments presented and the Constitution. The Judge struck down the Nebraska Constitution just as previous judges struck down Jim Crow laws. (For example, Georgia's constitution has been struck down numerous times.) Those upset about "activist" judges simply do not understand the grievances gays and lesbians are presenting to the Courts. If gays can form companies, join organizations, start limited liability companies, why can't they form marriages? The Judge asked what was the state's rational to prevent gays from entering marriage and found no argument was offered. Hence, virtually all the US constitutional arguments presented wipe out what Nebraska voters put in the Constitution. Remember, we are a democratic REPUBLIC. The will of the majority can not wipe out the rights of the minority and the individual.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45877</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 04:03:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45877</guid>
		<description>And Ken is the expert on lunacy...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Ken is the expert on lunacy...</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45873</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 May 2005 03:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45873</guid>
		<description>James, so you are saying that any fundemental human right that is not specifically enumerated in the US constitution can be denied by any of the states if they so chose. That is not only lunacy, it is also unconstitutional.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, so you are saying that any fundemental human right that is not specifically enumerated in the US constitution can be denied by any of the states if they so chose. That is not only lunacy, it is also unconstitutional.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45860</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 22:18:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45860</guid>
		<description>Robert: One would think the rationale would work the other way. The citizenry has defined &quot;marriage&quot; and wishes to preclude arrangements that violate the definition.

Chris: The Supreme Court is often, if not routinely, wrong. That vision of the 14th is so obviously out of whack with what its framers intended. Indeed, the great irony of the 14th is that it took nearly a century for the courts to uphold its plain meaning and intent (i.e., black people are to be treated as equals under the law) but only a quarter century for the courts to invent all sorts of things for the 14th to accomplish clearly outside its scope.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert: One would think the rationale would work the other way. The citizenry has defined "marriage" and wishes to preclude arrangements that violate the definition.</p>
<p>Chris: The Supreme Court is often, if not routinely, wrong. That vision of the 14th is so obviously out of whack with what its framers intended. Indeed, the great irony of the 14th is that it took nearly a century for the courts to uphold its plain meaning and intent (i.e., black people are to be treated as equals under the law) but only a quarter century for the courts to invent all sorts of things for the 14th to accomplish clearly outside its scope.</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Lawrence</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45858</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Lawrence</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 21:40:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45858</guid>
		<description>Of course, any fundamental liberty guaranteed by the  9th Amendment is also required to be respected by the states by the 14th Amendment... the right to travel, for example, is an unenumerated 9th Amendment right that the states must respect due to the due process guarantee of the 14th (see e.g. &lt;i&gt;Saenz v. Roe&lt;/i&gt;).

Presumably if there were an unenumerated right to &quot;intimate association&quot; guaranteed by the 9th Amendment, the logic of &lt;i&gt;Saenz&lt;/i&gt; would apply and the states would have to respect it unless this liberty was somehow not &quot;fundamental.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Of course, any fundamental liberty guaranteed by the  9th Amendment is also required to be respected by the states by the 14th Amendment... the right to travel, for example, is an unenumerated 9th Amendment right that the states must respect due to the due process guarantee of the 14th (see e.g. <i>Saenz v. Roe</i>).</p>
<p>Presumably if there were an unenumerated right to "intimate association" guaranteed by the 9th Amendment, the logic of <i>Saenz</i> would apply and the states would have to respect it unless this liberty was somehow not "fundamental."</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Prather</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45857</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Prather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 21:28:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45857</guid>
		<description>James,

This could be upheld for the same reason that Boy Scouts can exclude gay Scoutmasters: expressive association.  But, it seems like an awful stretch to me since we aren&#039;t talking about imprisoning people for being homosexual or, for that matter, even taking away their right to contract, which allows them to create whatever kind of relationship they want.

I like Volokh&#039;s interpretation and hope the case is overturned immediately, if not sooner.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James,</p>
<p>This could be upheld for the same reason that Boy Scouts can exclude gay Scoutmasters: expressive association.  But, it seems like an awful stretch to me since we aren't talking about imprisoning people for being homosexual or, for that matter, even taking away their right to contract, which allows them to create whatever kind of relationship they want.</p>
<p>I like Volokh's interpretation and hope the case is overturned immediately, if not sooner.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45855</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 21:08:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45855</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;When are the vast majorty of Americans going to get smart and start demanding that these Federal Judges that rule against the will of the people, be Impeached. When are we going to tell our âSenators and Repsâ., that they had best get off their rear ends and get these Judges out.&lt;/i&gt;

This has the dubious merit of being less intelligent than anything in the Nebraska judge&#039;s opinion.  Any judge who rules contrary to the wishes of 50.000001% of &quot;the people&quot; is subject to removal.  Great.  Any &quot;conservatives&quot; want to talk to Herb about this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>When are the vast majorty of Americans going to get smart and start demanding that these Federal Judges that rule against the will of the people, be Impeached. When are we going to tell our âSenators and Repsâ., that they had best get off their rear ends and get these Judges out.</i></p>
<p>This has the dubious merit of being less intelligent than anything in the Nebraska judge's opinion.  Any judge who rules contrary to the wishes of 50.000001% of "the people" is subject to removal.  Great.  Any "conservatives" want to talk to Herb about this?</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45842</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 20:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45842</guid>
		<description>Ken:  Once again, I would point out the 9th Amendment was a guarantee that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT would not encroach on unenumerated other rights.  Madison and others contended that the enumeration of rights might lead to the implication that those are the ONLY rights protected.  In actuality, the understanding was almost precisely the opposite:  Unless the Constitution specifically delegated to the federal government the power to do something, it was presumed that they did not have authority in that area.

The primary amendment in the federal Constitution that directly impacts the states is the 14th.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ken:  Once again, I would point out the 9th Amendment was a guarantee that the FEDERAL GOVERNMENT would not encroach on unenumerated other rights.  Madison and others contended that the enumeration of rights might lead to the implication that those are the ONLY rights protected.  In actuality, the understanding was almost precisely the opposite:  Unless the Constitution specifically delegated to the federal government the power to do something, it was presumed that they did not have authority in that area.</p>
<p>The primary amendment in the federal Constitution that directly impacts the states is the 14th.</p>
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		<title>By: herb</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45840</link>
		<dc:creator>herb</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 20:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45840</guid>
		<description>When are the vast majorty of Americans going to get smart and start demanding that these Federal Judges that rule against the will of the people, be Impeached.  When are we going to tell our &quot;Senators and Reps&quot;., that they had best get off their rear ends and get these Judges out.

The truth is: Americans will let it go on and on and will wake up some day and find out that Judges rule our counrty. Just think back a couple of months ago when we let 3 Federal Court Judges and a Supreme court Judge VIOLATE the law and neither the MSM, the blogers, Our Congress and our Justice department did a damned thing about it.

Shame, Shame on us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When are the vast majorty of Americans going to get smart and start demanding that these Federal Judges that rule against the will of the people, be Impeached.  When are we going to tell our "Senators and Reps"., that they had best get off their rear ends and get these Judges out.</p>
<p>The truth is: Americans will let it go on and on and will wake up some day and find out that Judges rule our counrty. Just think back a couple of months ago when we let 3 Federal Court Judges and a Supreme court Judge VIOLATE the law and neither the MSM, the blogers, Our Congress and our Justice department did a damned thing about it.</p>
<p>Shame, Shame on us.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45836</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 20:14:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45836</guid>
		<description>&quot;I&#039;m unsure which provision of the U.S. Constitution guarantees &quot;intimate associational rights.&quot;&quot;

James, this is a perfect example of the difference between a liberal and a so called conservative. The ninth admendment specifically says that rights do not have to be enumerated by the constitution in order to be rights held by the people. If you do not see that &#039;intimate associational rights&#039; are inherent in your being a human being the more is the pity. You would allow the government to take away your rights to marry whatever other consenting adult would have you. I would not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"I'm unsure which provision of the U.S. Constitution guarantees "intimate associational rights.""</p>
<p>James, this is a perfect example of the difference between a liberal and a so called conservative. The ninth admendment specifically says that rights do not have to be enumerated by the constitution in order to be rights held by the people. If you do not see that 'intimate associational rights' are inherent in your being a human being the more is the pity. You would allow the government to take away your rights to marry whatever other consenting adult would have you. I would not.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45833</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 20:11:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45833</guid>
		<description>JW&#039;s enthusiasm for impeaching mistaken judges is commendable, if his goal is to eliminate 99% of the judges in the United States.

The Nebraska judge&#039;s op will be swiftly and thoroughly reversed on appeal, which is how the system is supposed to work.

&quot;Intimate association&quot; has an uncertain but real pedigree, as in the cases holding that parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit---not, surely, something that the conservatives wish to see overturned.  This theory was the logical basis for the &quot;gay scoutmaster&quot; decision a few years back, but I think the Court&#039;s hostility to the theory led it to rely on &quot;expressive association,&quot; which made little sense in context &amp; is now giving some trouble in the Solomon Amendment case (with the universities trumpeting their right to restrict their associations with anti-gay groups lest their &quot;expression&quot; of anti-gayness be inferred).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>JW's enthusiasm for impeaching mistaken judges is commendable, if his goal is to eliminate 99% of the judges in the United States.</p>
<p>The Nebraska judge's op will be swiftly and thoroughly reversed on appeal, which is how the system is supposed to work.</p>
<p>"Intimate association" has an uncertain but real pedigree, as in the cases holding that parents have the right to educate their children as they see fit---not, surely, something that the conservatives wish to see overturned.  This theory was the logical basis for the "gay scoutmaster" decision a few years back, but I think the Court's hostility to the theory led it to rely on "expressive association," which made little sense in context &#038; is now giving some trouble in the Solomon Amendment case (with the universities trumpeting their right to restrict their associations with anti-gay groups lest their "expression" of anti-gayness be inferred).</p>
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		<title>By: jwbrown1969</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45818</link>
		<dc:creator>jwbrown1969</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 19:05:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45818</guid>
		<description>How be we impeach these judges before they start ruling the &lt;a href=&quot;http://citzcom.blogspot.com/2005/05/constitution-is-unconstitutional.html&quot;&gt;U.S. Consistution is unconstitutional&lt;/a&gt;.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://citzcom.blogspot.com&quot;&gt;CitzCom&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How be we impeach these judges before they start ruling the <a href="http://citzcom.blogspot.com/2005/05/constitution-is-unconstitutional.html">U.S. Consistution is unconstitutional</a>.</p>
<p><a href="http://citzcom.blogspot.com">CitzCom</a></p>
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		<title>By: spaceman</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/federal_judge_voids_nebraska_gay_marriage_ban/comment-page-1/#comment-45817</link>
		<dc:creator>spaceman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 May 2005 19:04:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10530#comment-45817</guid>
		<description>You won&#039;t hear much about this in the MSM except a short canned piece, then no more.  Timing is bad with Bush trying to get his &quot;conservative&quot; judges appointed.  Aka, those that prefer not to make law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You won't hear much about this in the MSM except a short canned piece, then no more.  Timing is bad with Bush trying to get his "conservative" judges appointed.  Aka, those that prefer not to make law.</p>
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