Post # 12:
"The problem in Iraq is that the terrorists were not there until Mr. Bush started the war there."

Post #16:
"No doubt there is some prewar Iraq/terrorist connection,..."

Since you have expressed a desire not to chat, I will make this my last post adressed to you.

The world is a very complex place. The "side issues" I bring up do relate to the matter at hand. Events do not take place in a vacuum.

The President likes simplicity. Right or wrong. For us or aginst us. The man actually brags about not reading history. I guess this simplicity appeals to a lot of folks, hence the results of the recent election.

I have no doubt of the ability of our armed forces to win any battle. However, winning battles does not always win wars. Remember Vietnam? Regardless of what some posters think, Iraq does have disturbing similariaties with 'Nam.

We are fighting in a country who's culture we do not understand. They did not declare war on us. Our guys often have no idea who the enemy is until they are being shot at. We are fighting a war at points, not along a front with a conventional army. The enemy has the ability to melt away into the population. Locals who we think support us actually oppose us.

I could go on. Colin Powell, who has actually won a war in Iraq and no doubt has forgotten far more about war then you & I know combined is privatly telling people we are losing.

Perhaps I have just gotten to an age & lived through enough wars that I want to be very sure about what we are doing before the shooting starts. In the case of Al-Queda there is no doubt. Not so with Iraq.

Trying to demand unquestioning support of govt. policy in the name of "supporting the troops" is an idea I reject. They joined the military to defend freedom. This includes the freedom to question & criticize policy. Goverments have a nasty habit of doing evil. Our goverment has. Ask a Native American.

You seem like a decent guy. Hope we can agree to disagree.

I do like to argue too sometimes and I'm certainly not above name calling, but this goes deeper
than just thinking ill of someone that disagrees with me. I've learned over the years to recognize
a certain response that certain people, albeit relatively few, evoke in me. I've noticed in a handful
of people, that I've been exposed to over a period of time, that everything they say sounds wrong. Even things
I know to be right. This is where I learned to recognize this response. This invariably has come down to
people that have used every opportunity to manipulate information or a situation
(Given the opinionated blogosphere I'm surprised it hasn't happened to me more).

To me, the bringing up of side issues to change a subject have been manipulative to the point of evoking
this response. Bringing up "Oh think of the innocent casualties" or "think of the poor US families" on a
post that is obviously about the Success of US military operations is undermining, at least in intent,
support of our troops. This post and comments were only about the Killing of Terrorists and Insurgents in Iraq.

again the "poor use of American lives" argument just detracts from the US success in Killing
terrorists.

As I now understand my response I won't feel the need to respond to your future comments, probably at any time,
as I can't recall a time where they have helped me shed any light on the post being discussed, and they seem
to have evoked a like response in a number of other commenters. Feel free to post as you wish.

Sen Hagel & Sen Luger have both raised serious doubts about the war in Iraq. Are they anti-american? Hagel is a decorated combat vet and knows our goverment from the inside. Last week he said we are "in trouble" in Iraq.

"Incompetence" by the administration was what Luger said if I recall correctly.

That is really remarkable language coming from a senior member of the party of the sitting president.

We are not bogged down? Who will we send to Korea if war erupts there? Our manpower issues in Iraq are quite serious.

What you interpet as "anti-americanisim", is my concern over poor use of American lives and resources. I grew up watching our goverment squander both in Southeast Asia. Our goverment is not our country, to oppose its policies is not to be anti-american, as much as Mr. Bush wants to recreate the world into a black & white "for us or against us" place.

No doubt there is some prewar Iraq/terrorist connection, though even the adminstration now conceeds Saddam was not involved in 9-11. What of the absolutly definite, no-doubt-about -it Saudi Arabia/terrorist/9-11 connection?

And yes, sometimes I just like to argue :)

The problem in Iraq is that the terrorists were not there until Mr. Bush started the war there. Certainly now we are making enemies at a fast clip.

As for building democracy in Iraq, the president told us the war in Iraq was about imminent danger from WMD. I do not buy into the re-branding of the war.

I also have grave doubts about the policy of "spreading democracy" at gunpoint.

We are bogged down in Iraq and unable to properly focus on destroying the real enemy, Al-Queda.

I won't really agree to put Iraq aside. I agree war is a nasty job and we just need to get it done. (both finishing building democracy in Iraq and with Bin Laden)

I've said nothing about not regretting loss of innocent life anywhere in any post. The other bad things come out of war also have nothing in conflict with my feelings about accomplishing our objectives in defeating our enemies. So let's put those issues aside as they have nothing to do with celebratory posts concerning killing terrorists.

I find it more reprehensible not to show my true happiness at the defeat of our enemies, Especially
considering the cost to the wounded and to the families that have paid the ultimate sacrifice.
So am I changing how I think about this? certainly not due to any bleeding heart hand-wringing.
Go Team.

Don't you realize that the guys on the other side feel the same enthusiasm, exuberance & exhilaration? These very feelings are part of the endless cycle of violence that has plagued humanity for its entire history.

Lets put Iraq aside for a moment & focus on Al-Queda. Certainly we need to kill Bin Laden & company. Its just a nasty job that needs doing.

That does not stop me from feeling regret over the loss of innocent life that accompanies all such conflict, the damage to the enviorment & property, the waste of national treasure. Think also of the civilians who will be killed & wounded years from now by left-over ordinance.

I am glad we have the baddest bad-asses in the world fighting in our military. But I also think of the guys in VA hospitals as we speak with no legs. The mothers who have lost their sons.

Go team? This ain't a football game...

If you mean actual sexual gratification over war then I would sort of agree, that is pretty weird. If you mean showing any enthusiasm, exuberance, or exhilaration over the fact that we've managed to kill a lot of terrorists, with at least relatively low loss of life for our troops, then you're barking up the wrong tree. There is nothing pathetic about being proud of our troops efforts or happy about the results, even if we choose to show it through gallows humor.