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	<title>Comments on: Flag Burning Amendment Unnecessary and Unpatriotic</title>
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		<title>By: Robert Prather</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86716</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Prather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 18:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86716</guid>
		<description>Matt,

Yeah, I figured you were being a wiseguy, but the notion of &quot;hate speech&quot; gets me steamed.  I&#039;m pretty much a free speech absolutist and see hateful speech as a price you pay for living in a free country.

Speech that is incitement to violence (NOT incitement to hatred) shouldn&#039;t be tolerated because it leads to violence, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>Yeah, I figured you were being a wiseguy, but the notion of "hate speech" gets me steamed.  I'm pretty much a free speech absolutist and see hateful speech as a price you pay for living in a free country.</p>
<p>Speech that is incitement to violence (NOT incitement to hatred) shouldn't be tolerated because it leads to violence, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86675</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 12:19:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86675</guid>
		<description>My hate speech hypothetical was mostly tongue in cheek, but I&#039;m surprised someone hasn&#039;t tried it.

I do totally agree with you, Robert. A society where one&#039;s loftiest goal is to not offend anyone else would not be worth much.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My hate speech hypothetical was mostly tongue in cheek, but I'm surprised someone hasn't tried it.</p>
<p>I do totally agree with you, Robert. A society where one's loftiest goal is to not offend anyone else would not be worth much.</p>
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		<title>By: DL</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86671</link>
		<dc:creator>DL</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 11:49:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86671</guid>
		<description>The more they burn the flag the more they expose their hatred of America. Let this dog die of its own accord. Their purpose is to get the conservatives riled - this amendment merely guarantees them the success they so desire.
Pick and choose the battles you fight -don&#039;t get suckered by the enemy so easily. Their tactics are good because they work -we should learn from them and bait them more often. Let them whine and scream.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The more they burn the flag the more they expose their hatred of America. Let this dog die of its own accord. Their purpose is to get the conservatives riled - this amendment merely guarantees them the success they so desire.<br />
Pick and choose the battles you fight -don't get suckered by the enemy so easily. Their tactics are good because they work -we should learn from them and bait them more often. Let them whine and scream.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Prather</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86658</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Prather</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 05:45:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86658</guid>
		<description>madmatt,

Your comment is mostly off-topic, and to the extent it&#039;s not, it&#039;s wrong.  You seem to be using your displeasure with the current administration to justify flag burning, when in fact it&#039;s justified as free speech, regardless of your feelings about the current administration.

Matt,

Your hypothetical about being on the flag-burning bandwagon makes the situation much worse.  There should be no such thing as hate speech since criminalizing it -- on largely arbitrary grounds -- borders on thought crimes.  I can sit around hating people as much as I want and it does them no harm.  When I say hateful things, my right to free speech far outweighs anything they might feel because of it.

In fact, you&#039;re turning to how people feel about speech to determine its propriety.  There are any number of pissypants people out there who are ready and waiting to be offended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>madmatt,</p>
<p>Your comment is mostly off-topic, and to the extent it's not, it's wrong.  You seem to be using your displeasure with the current administration to justify flag burning, when in fact it's justified as free speech, regardless of your feelings about the current administration.</p>
<p>Matt,</p>
<p>Your hypothetical about being on the flag-burning bandwagon makes the situation much worse.  There should be no such thing as hate speech since criminalizing it -- on largely arbitrary grounds -- borders on thought crimes.  I can sit around hating people as much as I want and it does them no harm.  When I say hateful things, my right to free speech far outweighs anything they might feel because of it.</p>
<p>In fact, you're turning to how people feel about speech to determine its propriety.  There are any number of pissypants people out there who are ready and waiting to be offended.</p>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86638</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jun 2006 01:19:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86638</guid>
		<description>I rarely disagree with you, James, but this comment is rather specious:

&lt;blockquote&gt;It the Veterans of Foreign Wars carries out a ceremony burning tattered and faded flags, rendering the proper honors, many of the same people who are outraged by â??flag burningâ?? get choked up with pride. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

The VFW, while carrying out a duty codified in federal law, should be honored. Would that more people had that kind of respect. To compare that ceremony to a gaggle of protestors showing off their liberal cred is ridiculous and utterly lame.

Were I on the protect the flag bandwagon, I&#039;d be proposing to have burning it classified as hate speech. To be sure, there are people as angered by the act as much as others when they hear a racial epithet.

I really just wish we could get to the point where we had a right to free speech, but no right not to be offended. That, my friends, would be utopia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I rarely disagree with you, James, but this comment is rather specious:</p>
<blockquote><p>It the Veterans of Foreign Wars carries out a ceremony burning tattered and faded flags, rendering the proper honors, many of the same people who are outraged by â??flag burningâ?? get choked up with pride. </p></blockquote>
<p>The VFW, while carrying out a duty codified in federal law, should be honored. Would that more people had that kind of respect. To compare that ceremony to a gaggle of protestors showing off their liberal cred is ridiculous and utterly lame.</p>
<p>Were I on the protect the flag bandwagon, I'd be proposing to have burning it classified as hate speech. To be sure, there are people as angered by the act as much as others when they hear a racial epithet.</p>
<p>I really just wish we could get to the point where we had a right to free speech, but no right not to be offended. That, my friends, would be utopia.</p>
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		<title>By: G A Phillips</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86622</link>
		<dc:creator>G A Phillips</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 22:26:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86622</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ll tell you what, burn a flag in front of me and see what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'll tell you what, burn a flag in front of me and see what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: RA</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86615</link>
		<dc:creator>RA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 21:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86615</guid>
		<description>You can&#039;t protest outside an abortion clinic without being prosecuted and bankrupted.  You can&#039;t say a prayer or read a bible in government school.  You are forced to take man hating feminist propaganda courses on many colleges.  You can&#039;t pay for POLITICAL advertisments 60 days before an election.

Don&#039;t tell me we cannot or should not make it a felony to burn the flag.  They can still do it but they will have to pay the penalty.

It always boggles my mind when people who call themselves conservative are suffering from a severe case of ACLUitis.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You can't protest outside an abortion clinic without being prosecuted and bankrupted.  You can't say a prayer or read a bible in government school.  You are forced to take man hating feminist propaganda courses on many colleges.  You can't pay for POLITICAL advertisments 60 days before an election.</p>
<p>Don't tell me we cannot or should not make it a felony to burn the flag.  They can still do it but they will have to pay the penalty.</p>
<p>It always boggles my mind when people who call themselves conservative are suffering from a severe case of ACLUitis.</p>
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		<title>By: madmatt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86592</link>
		<dc:creator>madmatt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86592</guid>
		<description>You also would have to define flag...is it ok to burn a Tommy Hilfiger shirt or a tshirt with a flag on it?  If so can I silkscreen a flag onto a sheet and burn that?
If you want the flag to be respected, the actions of the country need to be respectable....lately we have been far from that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You also would have to define flag...is it ok to burn a Tommy Hilfiger shirt or a tshirt with a flag on it?  If so can I silkscreen a flag onto a sheet and burn that?<br />
If you want the flag to be respected, the actions of the country need to be respectable....lately we have been far from that.</p>
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		<title>By: HerbEly</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86591</link>
		<dc:creator>HerbEly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86591</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Flag Desecration: Part II...&lt;/strong&gt;

If congress passes a law banning “desecration” it will be declaring that the flag is now sacred. Some lawyer will then challenge the law. The argument will be: “Congress has violated the first amendment by passing a law establishing the flag as s...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Flag Desecration: Part II...</strong></p>
<p>If congress passes a law banning “desecration” it will be declaring that the flag is now sacred. Some lawyer will then challenge the law. The argument will be: “Congress has violated the first amendment by passing a law establishing the flag as s...</p>
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		<title>By: PatriotPete</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86583</link>
		<dc:creator>PatriotPete</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:20:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86583</guid>
		<description>The amendment is not a &quot;flag burning amendment&quot;--it merely allows congress to &quot;prohibit the physical desecration&quot; of the flag.

One of the major acts of desecration has been the cheapening of the flag by every nimrod politician and his brother using it as a piece of jewelry.

If the amendment would allow the government to be able to fine someone everytime they wear one of those intolerable flag lapel pins or put a magnetic flag ribbons on their car, that would be excellent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The amendment is not a "flag burning amendment"--it merely allows congress to "prohibit the physical desecration" of the flag.</p>
<p>One of the major acts of desecration has been the cheapening of the flag by every nimrod politician and his brother using it as a piece of jewelry.</p>
<p>If the amendment would allow the government to be able to fine someone everytime they wear one of those intolerable flag lapel pins or put a magnetic flag ribbons on their car, that would be excellent.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86580</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:18:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86580</guid>
		<description>To me this is exactly as the process is supposed to work. We have the first amendment, which guarantees among other things our right to free speech. We have carved out some very limited limitations to that free speech as part of common sense (e.g. yelling &quot;Fire&quot; in a crowded theater and some time/manner/place limitations). We have some speech that is embraced by only a very small number, is found disgusting but not worth another exception by more and is found to be just wrong by a majority.

So unlike the McCain limitations on political free speech, the people who don&#039;t like the flag burning are going through the proper political process to carve out a limitation. They have every right to make their case for why such an amendment is in the country&#039;s best interests. The opponents, such as your self, also get their day in the court of public opinion as to why the amendment shouldn&#039;t go through. The country won&#039;t end if the amendment is passed or not. But the mechanism on how we should handle contentious issues is being played out.

If W was really who is critics claimed he was, we would be seeing armies of red, white and blue shirts attacking those who protest the war, including by burning the flag. Instead, we see the wheels of government grinding slowly towards a resolution on this amendment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To me this is exactly as the process is supposed to work. We have the first amendment, which guarantees among other things our right to free speech. We have carved out some very limited limitations to that free speech as part of common sense (e.g. yelling "Fire" in a crowded theater and some time/manner/place limitations). We have some speech that is embraced by only a very small number, is found disgusting but not worth another exception by more and is found to be just wrong by a majority.</p>
<p>So unlike the McCain limitations on political free speech, the people who don't like the flag burning are going through the proper political process to carve out a limitation. They have every right to make their case for why such an amendment is in the country's best interests. The opponents, such as your self, also get their day in the court of public opinion as to why the amendment shouldn't go through. The country won't end if the amendment is passed or not. But the mechanism on how we should handle contentious issues is being played out.</p>
<p>If W was really who is critics claimed he was, we would be seeing armies of red, white and blue shirts attacking those who protest the war, including by burning the flag. Instead, we see the wheels of government grinding slowly towards a resolution on this amendment.</p>
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		<title>By: Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Flag And Freedom</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-86576</link>
		<dc:creator>Below The Beltway &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The Flag And Freedom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 15 Jun 2006 19:00:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-86576</guid>
		<description>[...] Further thoughts from KipEsquire and James Joyner     &#160; [link] [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Further thoughts from KipEsquire and James Joyner       [link] [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Axes &#38; Alleys</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-130251</link>
		<dc:creator>Axes &#38; Alleys</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-130251</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;if golfers wore samurai armor. The armor would protect them from the Sun, they could keep their favorite golf club in a belt loop and they could identify themselves to spectators with a handy flag like the samurai wore. What do you think of my idea?Bob Kerrey President The New School University New York, NY P.S. Please don’t steal my idea. I am amazed at how positively useless this idea is. It would take more energy to steal this idea than it is worth. My suggestion is not to send an application to&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->if golfers wore samurai armor. The armor would protect them from the Sun, they could keep their favorite golf club in a belt loop and they could identify themselves to spectators with a handy flag like the samurai wore. What do you think of my idea?Bob Kerrey President The New School University New York, NY P.S. Please don&rsquo;t steal my idea. I am amazed at how positively useless this idea is. It would take more energy to steal this idea than it is worth. My suggestion is not to send an application to<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Overtaken By Events</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/comment-page-1/#comment-130252</link>
		<dc:creator>Overtaken By Events</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 1969 18:00:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2006/06/flag_burning_amendment_unnecessary_and_unpatriotic/#comment-130252</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-pre%--&gt;their mouths when on one hand they say that burning a flag is constitutionally protected &quot;speech&quot;, but on the other think it&#039;s just fine to limit another form of speech like, and I just spitballing here, donating money to the candidate of your choice?This post at Outside the Beltway&lt;!--%kramer-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-pre%-->their mouths when on one hand they say that burning a flag is constitutionally protected "speech", but on the other think it's just fine to limit another form of speech like, and I just spitballing here, donating money to the candidate of your choice?This post at Outside the Beltway<!--%kramer-post%--></p>
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