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	<title>Comments on: Fly the Unfriendly Skies</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: Holiday travel fun: trains, planes, and automobiles</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-376519</link>
		<dc:creator>Holiday travel fun: trains, planes, and automobiles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 15:13:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-376519</guid>
		<description>[...] Joyner points to Kevin Drum on the unfriendly skies and the $15 bag checking [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Joyner points to Kevin Drum on the unfriendly skies and the $15 bag checking [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375310</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 20:59:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375310</guid>
		<description>Dunk:  I don&#039;t ever use my laptop on an airplane.  I read books and sleep.

yetanotherjohn: Round trip on Continental from SFO to EWR is $2100 for business and only $1200 coach.  The airline would more than recoup their costs.  Anyway, the point is not to make a net change in the number of coach vs. business and first seats, but simply to rearrange them so more of the business seats are on one flight.  There are already flights on Emirates that are entirely first class (and first class on Emirates means a 150 sq ft cabin).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dunk:  I don't ever use my laptop on an airplane.  I read books and sleep.</p>
<p>yetanotherjohn: Round trip on Continental from SFO to EWR is $2100 for business and only $1200 coach.  The airline would more than recoup their costs.  Anyway, the point is not to make a net change in the number of coach vs. business and first seats, but simply to rearrange them so more of the business seats are on one flight.  There are already flights on Emirates that are entirely first class (and first class on Emirates means a 150 sq ft cabin).</p>
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		<title>By: Dunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375178</link>
		<dc:creator>Dunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375178</guid>
		<description>Hey Jeff Baker,
I truly enjoy taking my young children on flights and always book them business class, just to annoy people like you. It warms my heart to piss off cold people like you.  Look for me soon on a DC-London flight; that kid enjoying herself will be mine and if she draws you away from your laptop for one minute -- job done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey Jeff Baker,<br />
I truly enjoy taking my young children on flights and always book them business class, just to annoy people like you. It warms my heart to piss off cold people like you.  Look for me soon on a DC-London flight; that kid enjoying herself will be mine and if she draws you away from your laptop for one minute -- job done.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375136</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 18:05:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375136</guid>
		<description>Jeff Baker,

Do this simple math test. Take a continental flight (which is 3 seats on each side). Removing 1/3 of the seats minimum (no extra leg room) for business class seats would say they would have to increase the cost of the flight by 1/3 to break even. If they removed every third row, to add leg room, another 1/3 cost.

If the plane has 150 seats now (25 rows of 6 seats), then we end up with about 76 seats to fit in business class. So in rough numbers, you have doubled the price for them to break even. They save a little for weight and needing fewer people who need to buy tickets to fill the plane, so they are probably money ahead if they can fill the plane. But they are now selling the same destination for twice the price as the cattle car. The $350 flight costs $700.

I agree it would be wonderful, from a flying on other people&#039;s money. But how many who are making the buying decision would pay double?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff Baker,</p>
<p>Do this simple math test. Take a continental flight (which is 3 seats on each side). Removing 1/3 of the seats minimum (no extra leg room) for business class seats would say they would have to increase the cost of the flight by 1/3 to break even. If they removed every third row, to add leg room, another 1/3 cost.</p>
<p>If the plane has 150 seats now (25 rows of 6 seats), then we end up with about 76 seats to fit in business class. So in rough numbers, you have doubled the price for them to break even. They save a little for weight and needing fewer people who need to buy tickets to fill the plane, so they are probably money ahead if they can fill the plane. But they are now selling the same destination for twice the price as the cattle car. The $350 flight costs $700.</p>
<p>I agree it would be wonderful, from a flying on other people's money. But how many who are making the buying decision would pay double?</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375109</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 17:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375109</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;One thing I would like to see is a plane consisting entirely of first or business class seating. Think of how fast the aircraft would board and alight with only high-paying frequent fliers, and how peaceful the trip would be without kids and babies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The market was not there for Eos, which flew between JFK (I think) and Heathrow.  They just went out of business a few weeks ago.

Silverjet is still around.  They fly from Luton to Newark.  Unfortunately, Al Gore has conned them into adding a &quot;carbon offset charge&quot; to each flight.  But when the flight is 5 grand round trip, a couple of bucks to keep Al Gore happy isn&#039;t going to make much of a difference for most flyers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>One thing I would like to see is a plane consisting entirely of first or business class seating. Think of how fast the aircraft would board and alight with only high-paying frequent fliers, and how peaceful the trip would be without kids and babies.</p></blockquote>
<p>The market was not there for Eos, which flew between JFK (I think) and Heathrow.  They just went out of business a few weeks ago.</p>
<p>Silverjet is still around.  They fly from Luton to Newark.  Unfortunately, Al Gore has conned them into adding a "carbon offset charge" to each flight.  But when the flight is 5 grand round trip, a couple of bucks to keep Al Gore happy isn't going to make much of a difference for most flyers.</p>
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		<title>By: Jeffrey W. Baker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375105</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeffrey W. Baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:52:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375105</guid>
		<description>I like Continental because they still serve real food.  I can&#039;t deal with a JetBlue flight all the way to New York with nothing to eat but a miniature bag of Doritos.  

One thing I would like to see is a plane consisting entirely of first or business class seating.  Think of how fast the aircraft would board and alight with only high-paying frequent fliers, and how peaceful the trip would be without kids and babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I like Continental because they still serve real food.  I can't deal with a JetBlue flight all the way to New York with nothing to eat but a miniature bag of Doritos.  </p>
<p>One thing I would like to see is a plane consisting entirely of first or business class seating.  Think of how fast the aircraft would board and alight with only high-paying frequent fliers, and how peaceful the trip would be without kids and babies.</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375094</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:41:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375094</guid>
		<description>Apropos the illustration and the comment about international flights.

One fact of life that you can count on in comparing the foreign vs US flag carriers on international flights is that the US carriers put the wide bodies on the wide bodies. I suspect that the average age of the stewardess on the international US flag planes is my age or higher while the average age on foreign flag planes is about half my age.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apropos the illustration and the comment about international flights.</p>
<p>One fact of life that you can count on in comparing the foreign vs US flag carriers on international flights is that the US carriers put the wide bodies on the wide bodies. I suspect that the average age of the stewardess on the international US flag planes is my age or higher while the average age on foreign flag planes is about half my age.</p>
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		<title>By: steveplunk</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375088</link>
		<dc:creator>steveplunk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:35:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375088</guid>
		<description>My first flight was nearly 30 years ago and it cost me about $350 round trip from Oregon to Boston.  It costs just little more today so I find the complaints without merit.  We get what we pay for.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My first flight was nearly 30 years ago and it cost me about $350 round trip from Oregon to Boston.  It costs just little more today so I find the complaints without merit.  We get what we pay for.</p>
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		<title>By: Spoker</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375072</link>
		<dc:creator>Spoker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:25:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375072</guid>
		<description>Having traveled well over a million miles with various airlines over the past several years I can assure you that very few airlines care about the passengers, their comfort, convenience, time, schedule, or trust.  Alas, but what choice do we have but to moo with discontent because there will certainly not be anything to graze on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having traveled well over a million miles with various airlines over the past several years I can assure you that very few airlines care about the passengers, their comfort, convenience, time, schedule, or trust.  Alas, but what choice do we have but to moo with discontent because there will certainly not be anything to graze on.</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375070</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:20:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375070</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It has been noted for years that international carriers bend over backwards to make flying family-friendly whereas American carriers cater to the business traveler.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Actually, the charge-for-everything practice and the catering towards individual consumers has been well-established in Europe for years. 

Try taking Ryan Air or EasyJet the next time you&#039;re over there.  Those carriers are basically glorified buses.  Tickets are dirt cheap and you have to pay an extra charge for EVERYTHING!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It has been noted for years that international carriers bend over backwards to make flying family-friendly whereas American carriers cater to the business traveler.</p></blockquote>
<p>Actually, the charge-for-everything practice and the catering towards individual consumers has been well-established in Europe for years. </p>
<p>Try taking Ryan Air or EasyJet the next time you're over there.  Those carriers are basically glorified buses.  Tickets are dirt cheap and you have to pay an extra charge for EVERYTHING!</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/comment-page-1/#comment-375059</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 16:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/05/fly_the_unfriendly_skies/#comment-375059</guid>
		<description>Go ahead.
Ask me again why I drive everywhere.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Go ahead.<br />
Ask me again why I drive everywhere.</p>
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