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	<title>Comments on: Friedman: Double U.S. Troops in Iraq</title>
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		<title>By: Nik Green</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-50129</link>
		<dc:creator>Nik Green</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:28:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-50129</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s a circular mess with no way out. One may ask, why it is that the troops are still there, and the usual answer is that &#039;the insurgents need to be defeated&#039;. But one also needs to ask the obvious, which is &#039;why are the insurgents are still fighting us?&#039;. One answer is supremely obvious: People, regardless of race, color, creed or whatever, tend to despise the presence of foreign troops on their land, especially foreign troops who are abusive, disrespectful or ignorant of ethnic customs and traditions. Doubling the number of troops on the ground will merely provide more targets for the insurgents, and undoubtedly will encourage more angry Iraqis to join the insurgency. 

Think of it this way, (and I think Defense Sec. Rumsfeld put it correctly when he said that the insurgency could go on for a decade of more): If it was America that happened to on the sharp end of a superior and unwelcome foreign occupying force (fortunately, this is a thought experiment rather than a likely future scenario), I would imagine that most able-bodied patriotic Americans capable of firing a weapon would be taking the fight to the enemy in whatever way they could. I would for sure. This is a no-brainer.

I am not suggesting a way out of this mess for the simple reason that a workable solution involves some degree of &quot;loss-of-face&quot; for the architects of this war. Knowing that &quot;loss-of-face&quot; is the ultimate no-go area for testosterone-addled hawks in the Pentagon, then its plain that we are in there for a long and painful haul.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's a circular mess with no way out. One may ask, why it is that the troops are still there, and the usual answer is that 'the insurgents need to be defeated'. But one also needs to ask the obvious, which is 'why are the insurgents are still fighting us?'. One answer is supremely obvious: People, regardless of race, color, creed or whatever, tend to despise the presence of foreign troops on their land, especially foreign troops who are abusive, disrespectful or ignorant of ethnic customs and traditions. Doubling the number of troops on the ground will merely provide more targets for the insurgents, and undoubtedly will encourage more angry Iraqis to join the insurgency. </p>
<p>Think of it this way, (and I think Defense Sec. Rumsfeld put it correctly when he said that the insurgency could go on for a decade of more): If it was America that happened to on the sharp end of a superior and unwelcome foreign occupying force (fortunately, this is a thought experiment rather than a likely future scenario), I would imagine that most able-bodied patriotic Americans capable of firing a weapon would be taking the fight to the enemy in whatever way they could. I would for sure. This is a no-brainer.</p>
<p>I am not suggesting a way out of this mess for the simple reason that a workable solution involves some degree of "loss-of-face" for the architects of this war. Knowing that "loss-of-face" is the ultimate no-go area for testosterone-addled hawks in the Pentagon, then its plain that we are in there for a long and painful haul.</p>
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		<title>By: cas</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-49025</link>
		<dc:creator>cas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Jun 2005 09:03:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-49025</guid>
		<description>Do you WANT to have the Kurds totally separate themselves from this process? Then just invite the Turkish Army into Northern Iraq, ands see how fast the ethnic cleansing and fighting breaks out. The Turks have been fighting their own war on terror against the Kurds for almost 100 years. Meanwhile the ethnic Kurds in eastern Turkey would like nothing better than an excuse to declare the country of Kurdistan, bring the Iraqi Kurds into the mix, oh and why not, involve the ethnic Kurds living in Iran and the Caucasus as well?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do you WANT to have the Kurds totally separate themselves from this process? Then just invite the Turkish Army into Northern Iraq, ands see how fast the ethnic cleansing and fighting breaks out. The Turks have been fighting their own war on terror against the Kurds for almost 100 years. Meanwhile the ethnic Kurds in eastern Turkey would like nothing better than an excuse to declare the country of Kurdistan, bring the Iraqi Kurds into the mix, oh and why not, involve the ethnic Kurds living in Iran and the Caucasus as well?</p>
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		<title>By: QandO</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-49013</link>
		<dc:creator>QandO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 23:55:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-49013</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;On Iraq&lt;/strong&gt;

Thomas Friedmanâ0ne of the few pundits willing to admit that he doesn&#039;t already know how the Iraq war will turn outâwrites an important column on that very topic. To start, however, </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>On Iraq</strong></p>
<p>Thomas Friedmanâ0ne of the few pundits willing to admit that he doesn't already know how the Iraq war will turn outâwrites an important column on that very topic. To start, however,</p>
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		<title>By: paladin</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48975</link>
		<dc:creator>paladin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 19:47:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48975</guid>
		<description>Cori Dauber has some harsh words for Friedman who says Iraqi military are just &quot;punching the clock&quot; but does not acknowledge the danger Iraqis face just standing in line to apply. My opinion on Friedman is that in order to justify the $50.00 to subscribe to his (and other) columns, he has to play to the anti-Bush, anti-conservative, anti-religious Central Park West denizens who will be forking over $50.00 to read his, MoDo, Krugman, Dionne, Herbert, etc. blatherings. Here&#039;s Cori&#039;s take: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rantingprofs.com/rantingprofs/2005/06/what_part_of_as.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;http://www.rantingprofs.com/rantingprofs/2005/06/what_part_of_as.html&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cori Dauber has some harsh words for Friedman who says Iraqi military are just "punching the clock" but does not acknowledge the danger Iraqis face just standing in line to apply. My opinion on Friedman is that in order to justify the $50.00 to subscribe to his (and other) columns, he has to play to the anti-Bush, anti-conservative, anti-religious Central Park West denizens who will be forking over $50.00 to read his, MoDo, Krugman, Dionne, Herbert, etc. blatherings. Here's Cori's take: <a href="http://www.rantingprofs.com/rantingprofs/2005/06/what_part_of_as.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.rantingprofs.com/rantingprofs/2005/06/what_part_of_as.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark in Mexico</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48960</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark in Mexico</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 17:29:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48960</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;America&#039;s Secret War&lt;/strong&gt;

Burns says that Freidman also noted that after years of weak responses to earlier terrorist attacks and our failure to take out Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War, we were seen as weak and not willing to take casualties.
The president couldn&#039;t say...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>America's Secret War</strong></p>
<p>Burns says that Freidman also noted that after years of weak responses to earlier terrorist attacks and our failure to take out Saddam Hussein in the first Gulf War, we were seen as weak and not willing to take casualties.<br />
The president couldn't say...</p>
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		<title>By: Scott in CA</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48956</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott in CA</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:16:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48956</guid>
		<description>The Jihadis are the biggest problem in Iraq. But we can&#039;t forget that the base of the Jihadis are the Sunnis in Iraq (and elsewhere) who are not happy over the fact that they no longer rule Iraq. The Sunnis ran things under the Ottomans, under the British, and under Saddam. Now they don&#039;t. So many people in the West don&#039;t understand the centuries of hatred between Sunnis and Shiites. Throw in the Sunni non-Arab Kurds for good measure. Until the Sunnis accept their place as a MINORITY in Iraq, things won&#039;t quiet down.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Jihadis are the biggest problem in Iraq. But we can't forget that the base of the Jihadis are the Sunnis in Iraq (and elsewhere) who are not happy over the fact that they no longer rule Iraq. The Sunnis ran things under the Ottomans, under the British, and under Saddam. Now they don't. So many people in the West don't understand the centuries of hatred between Sunnis and Shiites. Throw in the Sunni non-Arab Kurds for good measure. Until the Sunnis accept their place as a MINORITY in Iraq, things won't quiet down.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim Rhoads</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48954</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim Rhoads</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 16:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48954</guid>
		<description>Sounds to me like a LBJ-like response to the situation.

The whole idea is support not occupation.

I haven&#039;t heard any Iraquis making &quot;double the troops&quot; requests.  Have I missed something here?

And consider the anti war response to such an action.

Next thing you know Friedman will be calling for a draft so we can sustain the troop requirements.

Breathtaking.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sounds to me like a LBJ-like response to the situation.</p>
<p>The whole idea is support not occupation.</p>
<p>I haven't heard any Iraquis making "double the troops" requests.  Have I missed something here?</p>
<p>And consider the anti war response to such an action.</p>
<p>Next thing you know Friedman will be calling for a draft so we can sustain the troop requirements.</p>
<p>Breathtaking.</p>
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		<title>By: Lurking Observer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48946</link>
		<dc:creator>Lurking Observer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 14:31:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48946</guid>
		<description>For all the Vietnam comparisons, I find Friedman&#039;s argument bizarre. 

I thought it was the US military dominating the war in Vietnam, failing to cultivate an autonomous government and an autonomous military, that led to our failure there. Exactly how would re-creating such a dependency benefit us in Iraq? 

Would the government be perceived as stronger or weaker with a larger US military presence? Would the Iraqi military be more or less likely to stand and fight? (Keeping in mind that, at present, there&#039;s quite a bit of American firepower there as is.) 

As for praktike&#039;s suggestion, a few considerations: 

1. Saudi Arabia? You mean the Wahhabi stronghold from which much of the funding for Islamic terrorism (including al-Qaeda) comes from? 
2. To help put down an insurgency that, from quite a few reports, is as much al-Qaeda and foreign fighters as it is Sunni Iraqis? Hmmm. Perhaps we should also have sought Soviet assistance in suppressing VC guerillas?  
3. And Syria? Would that be the same Syria that the NYT and others have reported is regularly shipping insurgents and guerillas &lt;strong&gt;into&lt;/strong&gt; Iraq in the first place? 

Methinks that this is more a formula to ensure we lose, rather than a workable solution towards solving the problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For all the Vietnam comparisons, I find Friedman's argument bizarre. </p>
<p>I thought it was the US military dominating the war in Vietnam, failing to cultivate an autonomous government and an autonomous military, that led to our failure there. Exactly how would re-creating such a dependency benefit us in Iraq? </p>
<p>Would the government be perceived as stronger or weaker with a larger US military presence? Would the Iraqi military be more or less likely to stand and fight? (Keeping in mind that, at present, there's quite a bit of American firepower there as is.) </p>
<p>As for praktike's suggestion, a few considerations: </p>
<p>1. Saudi Arabia? You mean the Wahhabi stronghold from which much of the funding for Islamic terrorism (including al-Qaeda) comes from?<br />
2. To help put down an insurgency that, from quite a few reports, is as much al-Qaeda and foreign fighters as it is Sunni Iraqis? Hmmm. Perhaps we should also have sought Soviet assistance in suppressing VC guerillas?<br />
3. And Syria? Would that be the same Syria that the NYT and others have reported is regularly shipping insurgents and guerillas <strong>into</strong> Iraq in the first place? </p>
<p>Methinks that this is more a formula to ensure we lose, rather than a workable solution towards solving the problem.</p>
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		<title>By: Don Singleton</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48942</link>
		<dc:creator>Don Singleton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 13:46:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48942</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Let&#039;s Talk About Iraq&lt;/strong&gt;

Actually it does not take that much training to blow yourself up or plant an IED, but they certainly have financial support both from Iran and Syria. If a galvanizing Shiite figure arose, he would certainly be opposed by the Kurds and the Sunnis, but...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Let's Talk About Iraq</strong></p>
<p>Actually it does not take that much training to blow yourself up or plant an IED, but they certainly have financial support both from Iran and Syria. If a galvanizing Shiite figure arose, he would certainly be opposed by the Kurds and the Sunnis, but...</p>
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		<title>By: Meezer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/friedman_double_us_troops_in_iraq/comment-page-1/#comment-48936</link>
		<dc:creator>Meezer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Jun 2005 12:41:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10961#comment-48936</guid>
		<description>&quot;He believes diplomatic initiatives to get Iran, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia into the mix--plus solving the Israeli-Palestinian mess ...&quot;

Wow. And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"He believes diplomatic initiatives to get Iran, Syria, Turkey, Egypt, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia into the mix--plus solving the Israeli-Palestinian mess ..."</p>
<p>Wow. And if wishes were horses, beggars would ride.</p>
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