Comments on: From ‘Gook’ To ‘Raghead’ http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/ Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs Wed, 25 Nov 2009 08:42:30 -0600 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.8.5 hourly 1 By: David Smith http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-45633 David Smith Thu, 12 May 2005 05:27:44 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-45633 I've been checking this fairly regularly and not getting ANY firm opinions from people I would respect. It all seems to be extremists of one kind or another (and usually a week old) and the mainstream press doesn't even admit Delgado or Herbert ever existed. Can someone get use some solid, investigational type stuff? Not just the opinion of someone who was there that it's not very likely, but some actual firm data? I've been checking this fairly regularly and not getting ANY firm opinions from people I would respect.

It all seems to be extremists of one kind or another (and usually a week old) and the mainstream press doesn't even admit Delgado or Herbert ever existed.

Can someone get use some solid, investigational type stuff? Not just the opinion of someone who was there that it's not very likely, but some actual firm data?

]]> By: Cannon http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-45549 Cannon Wed, 11 May 2005 05:35:54 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-45549 There is one item about this story that doesn't wash. 1. Have you seen the windows on the HMMWVs that they drive around? If they are of the new, uparmored variety, the windows are not sized or positioned to stick arms out of. It would be extremely uncomfortable, if not painful, to try and stick an arm out, and hit a guy on the head with a bottle. The windows are made for rifle/machine gun barrels. The only alternative would be to drive with no doors (suicidal) or with the doors open (slightly less so, but nearly impossible). So you are faced with soldiers that are needlessly exposing themselves to snipers/IEDs and for a negligible tactical/entertainment value. If I were to actually see this, I would be confused how they could possibly work it. 2. "But what about the gunner?" Of course, why shouldn't a person stand up in the hatch, exposing the most sensetive parts of his body to bullets, blast effects, and shrapnel. To sum up, either the soldiers involved in the incidents should have higher casualty rates. Any half-wit insurgent observing their behavior would counter it with IEDs or sniper fire. The whole incident just doesn't add up, from the tactical point of view. These soldiers would be sacrificing their survivability for maybe a couple of disgusting yuks. There is one item about this story that doesn't wash.

1. Have you seen the windows on the HMMWVs that they drive around? If they are of the new, uparmored variety, the windows are not sized or positioned to stick arms out of. It would be extremely uncomfortable, if not painful, to try and stick an arm out, and hit a guy on the head with a bottle. The windows are made for rifle/machine gun barrels. The only alternative would be to drive with no doors (suicidal) or with the doors open (slightly less so, but nearly impossible). So you are faced with soldiers that are needlessly exposing themselves to snipers/IEDs and for a negligible tactical/entertainment value. If I were to actually see this, I would be confused how they could possibly work it.

2. "But what about the gunner?" Of course, why shouldn't a person stand up in the hatch, exposing the most sensetive parts of his body to bullets, blast effects, and shrapnel. To sum up, either the soldiers involved in the incidents should have higher casualty rates. Any half-wit insurgent observing their behavior would counter it with IEDs or sniper fire. The whole incident just doesn't add up, from the tactical point of view. These soldiers would be sacrificing their survivability for maybe a couple of disgusting yuks.

]]> By: Minh-Duc http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-45271 Minh-Duc Sun, 08 May 2005 06:23:22 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-45271 There are glass bottles at soda stand along the street, but there are three facts to considered: 1. Only a certain types of unit would stop at the street to buy soda, MP is not one of them 2. Local venders want the bottle back when you done drinking. 3. I would not drink local soda from bottle (only from can) because they are refilled and has lower hygience. Generally, one try to avoid eating or drinking local stuff. There are glass bottles at soda stand along the street, but there are three facts to considered:
1. Only a certain types of unit would stop at the street to buy soda, MP is not one of them
2. Local venders want the bottle back when you done drinking.
3. I would not drink local soda from bottle (only from can) because they are refilled and has lower hygience. Generally, one try to avoid eating or drinking local stuff.

]]> By: David Smith http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44854 David Smith Wed, 04 May 2005 20:18:15 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44854 Are American soldiers even ALLOWED to have empty glass bottles in their vehicles? Aren't you just asking to get tripped up or fragged w broken glass in a firefight? Are American soldiers even ALLOWED to have empty glass bottles in their vehicles? Aren't you just asking to get tripped up or fragged w broken glass in a firefight?

]]> By: Mayberry Machiavelli http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44778 Mayberry Machiavelli Wed, 04 May 2005 12:28:17 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44778 <strong>Their version of 'discrediting'</strong> If this is the level of proof that is required, it's no wonder that Fox News is popular. Outside the Beltway 'attacked' the Delgado story this way: Their version of 'discrediting'
If this is the level of proof that is required, it's no wonder that Fox News is popular. Outside the Beltway 'attacked' the Delgado story this way:

]]> By: John Boyle http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44763 John Boyle Wed, 04 May 2005 05:10:58 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44763 My email to Powerline on this story: Schoor: . . . “Also, we threw full C-ration cans at kids on the side of the road. Kids would be lined up on the side of the road. They'd be yelling out, "Chop, Chop, Chop, Chop," and they wanted food. They knew we carried C-rations. Well, just for a joke, these guys would take a full can if they were riding shotgun and throw it as hard as they could at a kid's head. I saw several kids' heads split wide open, knocked off the road, knocked into tires of vehicles behind, and knocked under tank traps.” . . . (citation below). I can supply a searchable (in MS Word - 1.31 MB) complete text of the Winter Soldier Investigation transcript. You may need it, since it is about to be recycled piecemeal and wholesale, and you need to be able to recognize it in its Iraqi disguise. This is the worst-case nightmare of we Vietnam Vets who have been working to debunk the lies of the 70's, and to prevent the same thing from happening again to our sons in uniform. The least they could do it find new material. I guess that's what they thought they did, since it is now Coke bottles. Most of those I've talked to who were there (in Vietnam), including myself, think you'd have to be Warren Spahn to hit anything from the bed of a bouncing GI truck, with enough force or accuracy to do anything. C-ration cans were generally the size of tuna fish cans and not as heavy. There is much more of this kind in the transcript. The hallmark of the WSI testimony is likewise its hearsay nature, and the willingness of the MSN then, and now, to repeat it without any critical sense. The simply audacious and implausible outrageousness of these kinds of allegations shock and nauseate every GI I've ever spoken to about them - not the content of the lies, but the mind-set of those telling them. The pervasive and consistent weltanschauung of the text is so psychopathic that it is really startling - and it is this outrageousness which was designed to insulate it from repudiation - it is almost too filthy to consider, and not imaginable by any sane person, "so therefore it must be true." I have always thought that no normal persons could have cooked this stuff up - it had to have come from real pros in the world of perverted thinking, i.e. professional Marxist propagandists with some access to comrades who actually did do things of this nature. Citation Source: VVAW Winter Soldier Investigation January – February 1971 Miscellaneous Panel Moderators: Jan Crumb, (a/k/a Jan Barry) 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963) John Kerry, 27, Lt. (j.g.), Coastal Sq., Coastal Division, 11 & 13, USNR (November 1968 to April 1969) Witness: Sam Schorr, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967) p. 177 (of my Combined Text in MS Word) My email to Powerline on this story:
Schoor: . . . “Also, we threw full C-ration cans at kids on the side of the road. Kids would be lined up on the side of the road. They'd be yelling out, "Chop, Chop, Chop, Chop," and they wanted food. They knew we carried C-rations. Well, just for a joke, these guys would take a full can if they were riding shotgun and throw it as hard as they could at a kid's head. I saw several kids' heads split wide open, knocked off the road, knocked into tires of vehicles behind, and knocked under tank traps.” . . . (citation below).
I can supply a searchable (in MS Word - 1.31 MB) complete text of the Winter Soldier Investigation transcript. You may need it, since it is about to be recycled piecemeal and wholesale, and you need to be able to recognize it in its Iraqi disguise. This is the worst-case nightmare of we Vietnam Vets who have been working to debunk the lies of the 70's, and to prevent the same thing from happening again to our sons in uniform. The least they could do it find new material. I guess that's what they thought they did, since it is now Coke bottles. Most of those I've talked to who were there (in Vietnam), including myself, think you'd have to be Warren Spahn to hit anything from the bed of a bouncing GI truck, with enough force or accuracy to do anything. C-ration cans were generally the size of tuna fish cans and not as heavy.
There is much more of this kind in the transcript. The hallmark of the WSI testimony is likewise its hearsay nature, and the willingness of the MSN then, and now, to repeat it without any critical sense. The simply audacious and implausible outrageousness of these kinds of allegations shock and nauseate every GI I've ever spoken to about them - not the content of the lies, but the mind-set of those telling them. The pervasive and consistent weltanschauung of the text is so psychopathic that it is really startling - and it is this outrageousness which was designed to insulate it from repudiation - it is almost too filthy to consider, and not imaginable by any sane person, "so therefore it must be true." I have always thought that no normal persons could have cooked this stuff up - it had to have come from real pros in the world of perverted thinking, i.e. professional Marxist propagandists with some access to comrades who actually did do things of this nature.
Citation Source:
VVAW Winter Soldier Investigation
January – February 1971
Miscellaneous Panel
Moderators:
Jan Crumb, (a/k/a Jan Barry) 28, SP/4, 18th Aviation Co. (December 1961 to October 1963)
John Kerry, 27, Lt. (j.g.), Coastal Sq., Coastal Division, 11 & 13, USNR (November 1968 to April 1969)
Witness:
Sam Schorr, SP/4 (E-4), 86th Combat Engineers (September 1966 to September 1967)
p. 177 (of my Combined Text in MS Word)

]]> By: Nathan http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44749 Nathan Wed, 04 May 2005 02:53:12 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44749 Actually yes glass bottles are common. I have worked in the middle east for the last 3 1/2 years, 9 months of which as in Iraq. While I stayed in more or less one place most of the time, I did travel some. I knew many military members active reserve, and many still from my days in military. While I won't say this didn't happen, it would have been an isolated incident. As for the kicking the 6 year old. Chances are the 6 year old was doing something wrong and the person probably felt he needed to get the kid away as quick as possible (possible weapon or bomb). That's the problem is the people looking at these and even the people making up the stories don't have the experience to judge. They are judging by American standards. Try living over here for years at a time and they would understand. DID anyone else notice how this person just happens to have enlisted on Sept 11th, PRIOR to the towers???????? I just double checked my facts, BUT the first plane hit at roughly 8:46 AM........HOW DID HE ENLIST ON SEPT 11, PRIOR TO THAT TIME. I know recruiters normally have something close to bankers hours.......Something tells me maybe this person isn't all that real or has changed the date to add more to the "sympathy effect." Actually yes glass bottles are common. I have worked in the middle east for the last 3 1/2 years, 9 months of which as in Iraq. While I stayed in more or less one place most of the time, I did travel some. I knew many military members active reserve, and many still from my days in military. While I won't say this didn't happen, it would have been an isolated incident. As for the kicking the 6 year old. Chances are the 6 year old was doing something wrong and the person probably felt he needed to get the kid away as quick as possible (possible weapon or bomb). That's the problem is the people looking at these and even the people making up the stories don't have the experience to judge. They are judging by American standards. Try living over here for years at a time and they would understand.

DID anyone else notice how this person just happens to have enlisted on Sept 11th, PRIOR to the towers???????? I just double checked my facts, BUT the first plane hit at roughly 8:46 AM........HOW DID HE ENLIST ON SEPT 11, PRIOR TO THAT TIME. I know recruiters normally have something close to bankers hours.......Something tells me maybe this person isn't all that real or has changed the date to add more to the "sympathy effect."

]]> By: Bookworm Room http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44745 Bookworm Room Wed, 04 May 2005 02:19:57 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44745 <strong>Who are our soldiers?</strong> Michelle Malkin did a very intensive post based upon the "gushing article" Bob Herbert, of the NY Times, did regarding Aidan Delgado, a conscientious objector. One of the things that's striking about Herbert's article, is how Delgado describes Amer... Who are our soldiers?
Michelle Malkin did a very intensive post based upon the "gushing article" Bob Herbert, of the NY Times, did regarding Aidan Delgado, a conscientious objector. One of the things that's striking about Herbert's article, is how Delgado describes Amer...

]]> By: The Q Speaks http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44733 The Q Speaks Wed, 04 May 2005 00:55:11 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44733 <strong>Don't believe what you read</strong> Sure, it's an op-ed column and not a news article. Even still, you have to be surprised that the New York Times would publish something that sounds as far-fetched as this drivel. Don't believe what you read
Sure, it's an op-ed column and not a news article. Even still, you have to be surprised that the New York Times would publish something that sounds as far-fetched as this drivel.

]]> By: Jack Treese http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44729 Jack Treese Wed, 04 May 2005 00:16:57 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44729 I served in the Army for 23 years, the majority of the time in combat arms units. I was in Vietnam, Germany and Panama. I was in Special Forces, the 101st Airborne Division, the 82nd Airborne Division, the 2nd Armored Battalion, the 24th Infantry Division, the 3rd Infantry Division and others. Never did I encounter anyone who would even think about kicking children, hitting civilians or otherwise mistreating the local populace. In fact I believe people in the military are the most law abiding, upstanding, honest people in this country. Yes there are those who slip through but because of the efficienty reports that all officers and enlisted personel receive every year most bad soldiers are weeded out. In the Army one would be punished for having oral sex with a co worker in his office, and again for lying about it unlike Bill Clinton. I served in the Army for 23 years, the majority of the time in combat arms units. I was in Vietnam, Germany and Panama. I was in Special Forces, the 101st Airborne Division, the 82nd Airborne Division, the 2nd Armored Battalion, the 24th Infantry Division, the 3rd Infantry Division and others. Never did I encounter anyone who would even think about kicking children, hitting civilians or otherwise mistreating the local populace. In fact I believe people in the military are the most law abiding, upstanding, honest people in this country. Yes there are those who slip through but because of the efficienty reports that all officers and enlisted personel receive every year most bad soldiers are weeded out.

In the Army one would be punished for having oral sex with a co worker in his office, and again for lying about it unlike Bill Clinton.

]]> By: THIRDWAVEDAVE http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44721 THIRDWAVEDAVE Tue, 03 May 2005 23:35:58 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44721 A Herbert column is just like a Krugman or MoDope column: Not worth reading. A Herbert column is just like a Krugman or MoDope column: Not worth reading.

]]> By: Rod Stanton http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44720 Rod Stanton Tue, 03 May 2005 23:24:12 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44720 Which party is he with? My guess is either Dem or Green; which accounts for his tale. Which party is he with? My guess is either Dem or Green; which accounts for his tale.

]]> By: JamesLambJr.com http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44718 JamesLambJr.com Tue, 03 May 2005 23:06:35 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44718 <strong>A Soldier's Story</strong> Full disclosure: I never supported the current Iraq War in any way. Never. To me, the necessary conflict was against the multinational terrorist conglomerate called al-Qaeda, and any diversion from that sacred mission would result in unneeded death, ... A Soldier's Story
Full disclosure: I never supported the current Iraq War in any way. Never. To me, the necessary conflict was against the multinational terrorist conglomerate called al-Qaeda, and any diversion from that sacred mission would result in unneeded death, ...

]]> By: BLACKFIVE http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44697 BLACKFIVE Tue, 03 May 2005 19:56:54 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44697 <strong>Bob Herbert Columns - No Investigating Required</strong> I read Bob Herbert's latest slam on American troops last night in the New York Times. Bob Herbert Columns - No Investigating Required
I read Bob Herbert's latest slam on American troops last night in the New York Times.

]]> By: Michelle Malkin http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/from_gook_to_raghead/comment-page-1/#comment-44690 Michelle Malkin Tue, 03 May 2005 19:14:18 +0000 /?p=10330#comment-44690 <strong>AIDAN DELGADO: FACT OR FICTION?</strong> Bob Herbert's gushing profile of conscientious objector Aidan Delgado has many astute observers asking questions. OTB, Juliette Ochieng, and Rich Lowry take a closer look. Lorie Byrd is investigating and is asking anyone who might have served with Del... AIDAN DELGADO: FACT OR FICTION?
Bob Herbert's gushing profile of conscientious objector Aidan Delgado has many astute observers asking questions. OTB, Juliette Ochieng, and Rich Lowry take a closer look. Lorie Byrd is investigating and is asking anyone who might have served with Del...

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