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	<title>Comments on: Gay Vet Wants to Serve Openly</title>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42212</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 16:38:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42212</guid>
		<description>Yes, but Truman had guts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, but Truman had guts.</p>
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		<title>By: DC Loser</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42204</link>
		<dc:creator>DC Loser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:59:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42204</guid>
		<description>Didn&#039;t Truman integrate the armed forces by executive order?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Didn't Truman integrate the armed forces by executive order?</p>
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		<title>By: DaveD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42203</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:54:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42203</guid>
		<description>Michelangelo,
Thanks for the quick reply.  I was trying to figure out whether an act of Congress is needed to relax the policy or whether an Executive Order (as the President is the Commander-In-Chief) is sufficient.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michelangelo,<br />
Thanks for the quick reply.  I was trying to figure out whether an act of Congress is needed to relax the policy or whether an Executive Order (as the President is the Commander-In-Chief) is sufficient.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelangelo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42202</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelangelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42202</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Please enlighten me (I apologize for my ignorance). Is there a specific honest-to-God, passed by Congress, signed by the President law not permitting openly gay indivduals from serving in the United States Armed Forces? Or is this a product of deeply entrenched policy? Just wondering.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Homosexual sex is prohibited by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  Early in President Clinton&#039;s first term there were some changes made to how that particular law is enforced, commonly known as &quot;Don&#039;t Ask, Don&#039;t Tell&quot; (basically a way of allowing gays to remain in the service as long as they aren&#039;t open about their sexuality).  So the current situation is a combination of laws enacted by Congress (the UCMJ) and the application of policy.

And to Jim, I certainly don&#039;t want the military to disobey the laws enacted by Congress.  I just think it&#039;s time to take a serious look at changing those laws.  Sgt Stout, unfortunately, has to go, but perhaps his case can trigger a re-thinking of how the military deals with gay servicemembers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Please enlighten me (I apologize for my ignorance). Is there a specific honest-to-God, passed by Congress, signed by the President law not permitting openly gay indivduals from serving in the United States Armed Forces? Or is this a product of deeply entrenched policy? Just wondering.</p></blockquote>
<p>Homosexual sex is prohibited by the Uniform Code of Military Justice.  Early in President Clinton's first term there were some changes made to how that particular law is enforced, commonly known as "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" (basically a way of allowing gays to remain in the service as long as they aren't open about their sexuality).  So the current situation is a combination of laws enacted by Congress (the UCMJ) and the application of policy.</p>
<p>And to Jim, I certainly don't want the military to disobey the laws enacted by Congress.  I just think it's time to take a serious look at changing those laws.  Sgt Stout, unfortunately, has to go, but perhaps his case can trigger a re-thinking of how the military deals with gay servicemembers.</p>
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		<title>By: DaveD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42200</link>
		<dc:creator>DaveD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 14:21:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42200</guid>
		<description>Please enlighten me (I apologize for my ignorance).  Is there a specific honest-to-God, passed by Congress, signed by the President law not permitting openly gay indivduals from serving in the United States Armed Forces? Or is this a product of deeply entrenched policy?  Just wondering.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Please enlighten me (I apologize for my ignorance).  Is there a specific honest-to-God, passed by Congress, signed by the President law not permitting openly gay indivduals from serving in the United States Armed Forces? Or is this a product of deeply entrenched policy?  Just wondering.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42186</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 10:40:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42186</guid>
		<description>It is amazing the amount of people here who want the miltary to disobey the law and by doing so the Constitution.  To have the military (I would imagine  it would be the CJCS) deliberatly go against the law of Congress makes me very unconfortable and begins a  very slippery slope...why stop with gays in the military....?  Civil control of the military is one of those things that have kept us from becomming a military dictatorship and to see people here dismissing that in a an attempt to change social policy is disheartening.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It is amazing the amount of people here who want the miltary to disobey the law and by doing so the Constitution.  To have the military (I would imagine  it would be the CJCS) deliberatly go against the law of Congress makes me very unconfortable and begins a  very slippery slope...why stop with gays in the military....?  Civil control of the military is one of those things that have kept us from becomming a military dictatorship and to see people here dismissing that in a an attempt to change social policy is disheartening.</p>
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		<title>By: Michelangelo</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42133</link>
		<dc:creator>Michelangelo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 02:33:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42133</guid>
		<description>James is right about Sgt Stout knowing the rules.  At this time, it is not permitted for openly gay people to serve in the military, and that is made abundantly clear to any potential enlistee.

However, I do think that rule is overdue for a review.  This isn&#039;t the same military I joined 19 years ago.  Back then, society in general was not as tolerant of homosexuality, and especially so the military, with its necessarily exaggerated notions of masculinity.    Today, the pool of potential enlistees is generally quite tolerant of homosexuality, so the original rationale for prohibiting gays from serving seems, to me anyway, rather obsolete.

I personally would have no problem whatsoever with allowing gays to be open about their sexuality and remain on active duty or in the reserve components, subject to the same restrictions against fraternization and inappropriate sexual conduct that heterosexuals must follow.  It seems pretty stupid to be dismissing people in critical specialties just for being gay.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James is right about Sgt Stout knowing the rules.  At this time, it is not permitted for openly gay people to serve in the military, and that is made abundantly clear to any potential enlistee.</p>
<p>However, I do think that rule is overdue for a review.  This isn't the same military I joined 19 years ago.  Back then, society in general was not as tolerant of homosexuality, and especially so the military, with its necessarily exaggerated notions of masculinity.    Today, the pool of potential enlistees is generally quite tolerant of homosexuality, so the original rationale for prohibiting gays from serving seems, to me anyway, rather obsolete.</p>
<p>I personally would have no problem whatsoever with allowing gays to be open about their sexuality and remain on active duty or in the reserve components, subject to the same restrictions against fraternization and inappropriate sexual conduct that heterosexuals must follow.  It seems pretty stupid to be dismissing people in critical specialties just for being gay.</p>
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		<title>By: John</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42132</link>
		<dc:creator>John</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 02:30:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42132</guid>
		<description>James says,

&quot;He could certainly have kept his homosexuality private had remaining a soldier been his top priority.&quot;

Only the monumental arrogance of the abysmally ignorant could produce such a piece of shit as that.  

Just try to think for a minute, James: put yourself into the same situation and reverse the roles.  Could you hide your heterosexuality from a bunch of your homosexual buddies?  Would you want to?  How would you feel about being forced to?  How would you react to some dumb-ass, two-bit blogger pontificating that it&#039;s your responsibility to hide? 

Or, how about this: Do you really want an army full of lying soldiers who are living every day in an agony of conflict?  

Do you imagine that we queers come equipped differently than you do?  That we have some alien ability to switch off at will one of the most important parts of our selves?

Try thinking before you write, James.  I know there&#039;s something good in you but, Jesus! you need to be spanked!

John Hall
Seattle Washington
jfhseattle@cablespeed.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James says,</p>
<p>"He could certainly have kept his homosexuality private had remaining a soldier been his top priority."</p>
<p>Only the monumental arrogance of the abysmally ignorant could produce such a piece of shit as that.  </p>
<p>Just try to think for a minute, James: put yourself into the same situation and reverse the roles.  Could you hide your heterosexuality from a bunch of your homosexual buddies?  Would you want to?  How would you feel about being forced to?  How would you react to some dumb-ass, two-bit blogger pontificating that it's your responsibility to hide? </p>
<p>Or, how about this: Do you really want an army full of lying soldiers who are living every day in an agony of conflict?  </p>
<p>Do you imagine that we queers come equipped differently than you do?  That we have some alien ability to switch off at will one of the most important parts of our selves?</p>
<p>Try thinking before you write, James.  I know there's something good in you but, Jesus! you need to be spanked!</p>
<p>John Hall<br />
Seattle Washington<br />
<a href="mailto:jfhseattle@cablespeed.com">jfhseattle@cablespeed.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Marcos Vazquez</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42130</link>
		<dc:creator>Marcos Vazquez</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 01:44:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42130</guid>
		<description>&quot;For the record, a lot of people think the rule about gays in the military is ârightâ. The military is not a microcosm of everyday life and has to have different rules and procedures.&quot;&quot;

And those people have that belief based on error and bigotry.  If the powerful Israeli, British, and Canadian military has had no problems integrating open gays and bisexuals into the military, it is irrational to think there is any logical reason to keep the current, antiquated policy.  People who think the current policy is &quot;right&quot; are wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"For the record, a lot of people think the rule about gays in the military is ârightâ. The military is not a microcosm of everyday life and has to have different rules and procedures.""</p>
<p>And those people have that belief based on error and bigotry.  If the powerful Israeli, British, and Canadian military has had no problems integrating open gays and bisexuals into the military, it is irrational to think there is any logical reason to keep the current, antiquated policy.  People who think the current policy is "right" are wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42127</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 01:01:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42127</guid>
		<description>Will someone explain to me how the rule against gays in the military makes any sense now that we have women in the military?

[Goes back to post to make sure answer not prominently displayed ... check.  Proceeds with comment.]

Somehow, male and female soldiers are able to serve even though there&#039;s a theoretical possibility that some will be sexually attracted to others.  So I&#039;m missing something here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Will someone explain to me how the rule against gays in the military makes any sense now that we have women in the military?</p>
<p>[Goes back to post to make sure answer not prominently displayed ... check.  Proceeds with comment.]</p>
<p>Somehow, male and female soldiers are able to serve even though there's a theoretical possibility that some will be sexually attracted to others.  So I'm missing something here.</p>
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		<title>By: whatever</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42125</link>
		<dc:creator>whatever</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Apr 2005 00:47:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42125</guid>
		<description>Everyone here thinks the rules should be broken since they are &quot;wrong&quot;.

Most of the very same people - especially James - would have a fit if instead of declaring his sexual preference he were trying to bring water to Schiavo two weeks ago because he thought what was being done with her was &quot;wrong&quot;. 

For the record, a lot of people think the rule about gays in the military is &quot;right&quot;.  The military is not a microcosm of everyday life and has to have different rules and procedures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Everyone here thinks the rules should be broken since they are "wrong".</p>
<p>Most of the very same people - especially James - would have a fit if instead of declaring his sexual preference he were trying to bring water to Schiavo two weeks ago because he thought what was being done with her was "wrong". </p>
<p>For the record, a lot of people think the rule about gays in the military is "right".  The military is not a microcosm of everyday life and has to have different rules and procedures.</p>
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		<title>By: Marie</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42107</link>
		<dc:creator>Marie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 23:26:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42107</guid>
		<description>Obviously he knew the rules.  That is why rules are made, to be changed (or broken whichever).  There used to be rules about slaves too, but you see how well that turned out.  Yeah, you can say all you want he knew when he went in, but get a grip, who are we to judge the morality of sexual preference?  Jesus, Joseph, and Mary.  Does no one read the Bible anymore?  Judge not?  Ring any bells?  And please, I know all about the supposed comments also in the Bible about homosexuality.  This coming from a book that told the story of 2 daughters seducing their own father after plying him with liquor.  God, don&#039;t get me started.  Jacqueline Susann has nothing on the Bible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Obviously he knew the rules.  That is why rules are made, to be changed (or broken whichever).  There used to be rules about slaves too, but you see how well that turned out.  Yeah, you can say all you want he knew when he went in, but get a grip, who are we to judge the morality of sexual preference?  Jesus, Joseph, and Mary.  Does no one read the Bible anymore?  Judge not?  Ring any bells?  And please, I know all about the supposed comments also in the Bible about homosexuality.  This coming from a book that told the story of 2 daughters seducing their own father after plying him with liquor.  God, don't get me started.  Jacqueline Susann has nothing on the Bible.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42104</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42104</guid>
		<description>James makes a good point: at this time it is not the AArmy&#039;s choice.  They are merely following the law.  You can make a persuassive argument that the law is wrong but that does not allow the Army to disobey it.  It is up to Congress to change the law and I would expect the change to occur soon...I only hope the military is make some advance plans for when that occurs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James makes a good point: at this time it is not the AArmy's choice.  They are merely following the law.  You can make a persuassive argument that the law is wrong but that does not allow the Army to disobey it.  It is up to Congress to change the law and I would expect the change to occur soon...I only hope the military is make some advance plans for when that occurs.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Dillard</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42089</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Dillard</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 22:05:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42089</guid>
		<description>The guy did his job as ordered. What is the problem? I&#039;m sorry, but this argument about close quarters rings a bit hollow with men and women pretty much serving side by side. If the Brits and the Israelis can deal with, so can we. I&#039;m sorry if some guys don&#039;t like serving with gay men. Some whites didn&#039;t want to serve with blacks in 1948. It&#039;s the 21st century - grow up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The guy did his job as ordered. What is the problem? I'm sorry, but this argument about close quarters rings a bit hollow with men and women pretty much serving side by side. If the Brits and the Israelis can deal with, so can we. I'm sorry if some guys don't like serving with gay men. Some whites didn't want to serve with blacks in 1948. It's the 21st century - grow up.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openlygay_us_soldier_wants_to_serve_openly/comment-page-1/#comment-42081</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 08 Apr 2005 21:51:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=10002#comment-42081</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve changed posts soon after posting after a re-read, although not in this case.

I don&#039;t think I&#039;m being condescending, just noting that his own actions brought on the fight.  The Army is doing what Congress has mandated they do under the law.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I've changed posts soon after posting after a re-read, although not in this case.</p>
<p>I don't think I'm being condescending, just noting that his own actions brought on the fight.  The Army is doing what Congress has mandated they do under the law.</p>
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