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	<title>Comments on: Girls Go Wild &#8211; Not Their Fault?</title>
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		<title>By: Raising the Minimum Age for Porn (Shakesville)</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124645</link>
		<dc:creator>Raising the Minimum Age for Porn (Shakesville)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 May 2007 17:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] I think by 65 a woman has finally attained the maturity necessary to weigh the pros and cons of participating in pornography. Since she will most likely be retired or on the way to retirement by that age, there is little danger that such images will come back to haunt her in her career. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] I think by 65 a woman has finally attained the maturity necessary to weigh the pros and cons of participating in pornography. Since she will most likely be retired or on the way to retirement by that age, there is little danger that such images will come back to haunt her in her career. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: submandave</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124394</link>
		<dc:creator>submandave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 May 2007 22:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124394</guid>
		<description>FYI, the &quot;19 year-old&quot; average in Vietnam is a myth.  Assuming casualties accurately reflect the average age of the group, based upon the Combat Area Casualty File the average age of KIA in Vietnam was 23.11 and the average age of iiB MOS (infantry) was 22.55.  In fact, even among E-1s the average age was 20.34.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>FYI, the "19 year-old" average in Vietnam is a myth.  Assuming casualties accurately reflect the average age of the group, based upon the Combat Area Casualty File the average age of KIA in Vietnam was 23.11 and the average age of iiB MOS (infantry) was 22.55.  In fact, even among E-1s the average age was 20.34.</p>
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		<title>By: NLG</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124051</link>
		<dc:creator>NLG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 20:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124051</guid>
		<description>Back when I learned contract law, I was taught that one cannot form the necessary consent to enter into an agreement if one is in some way mentally impaired.  You can&#039;t, for example, stumble in drunk to a closing and sign the contracts to buy a house, or go buy a car, etc.  I suspect that sooner or later one of these girls will hire an attorney who will successfully challenge the contractual consent form they signed on the basis that she was drunk when she signed it and incapable of providing consent.  An argument that would have all the more force if shown that the person obtaining the signature on the form knew or had reason to know she was drunk.

The last thing we need are more laws protecting yet more classes of people from doing silly, even stupid, things.  If people are not free to take risks and make choices that can come back to haunt or even hurt them, there&#039;s no reason for them to learn to exercise good judgment -- we can just let the government make all our decisions for us.

Indeed, that likely far greater than 99% of all young women in this country manage to keep their panties on when in a setting where their otherwise private acts might become fodder for the general public tells me that people still do as a general rule learn to exercise proper judgment.  That only an extremly tiny minority are unable to do so is no reason to start legislating on the matter.  Even if they suffer the worst of consequences in terms of lost job opportunities or whatever, the economy is not going to collapse as a result, nor does this phenomenon seem to be all that threatening to the overall moral or ethical foundations of our social fabric.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back when I learned contract law, I was taught that one cannot form the necessary consent to enter into an agreement if one is in some way mentally impaired.  You can't, for example, stumble in drunk to a closing and sign the contracts to buy a house, or go buy a car, etc.  I suspect that sooner or later one of these girls will hire an attorney who will successfully challenge the contractual consent form they signed on the basis that she was drunk when she signed it and incapable of providing consent.  An argument that would have all the more force if shown that the person obtaining the signature on the form knew or had reason to know she was drunk.</p>
<p>The last thing we need are more laws protecting yet more classes of people from doing silly, even stupid, things.  If people are not free to take risks and make choices that can come back to haunt or even hurt them, there's no reason for them to learn to exercise good judgment -- we can just let the government make all our decisions for us.</p>
<p>Indeed, that likely far greater than 99% of all young women in this country manage to keep their panties on when in a setting where their otherwise private acts might become fodder for the general public tells me that people still do as a general rule learn to exercise proper judgment.  That only an extremly tiny minority are unable to do so is no reason to start legislating on the matter.  Even if they suffer the worst of consequences in terms of lost job opportunities or whatever, the economy is not going to collapse as a result, nor does this phenomenon seem to be all that threatening to the overall moral or ethical foundations of our social fabric.</p>
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		<title>By: Jon Swift</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124041</link>
		<dc:creator>Jon Swift</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 14:25:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124041</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Raising the Minimum Age for Porn...&lt;/strong&gt;

The problem with Franke-Ruta&#039;s proposal is that she does not go far enough....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Raising the Minimum Age for Porn...</strong></p>
<p>The problem with Franke-Ruta's proposal is that she does not go far enough....</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124039</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 13:15:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124039</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;fallacy of the &quot;old-enough-to-soldier == old-enough-to-[insert favorite activity requiring maturity]&quot; argument.&lt;/em&gt;

I don&#039;t disagree that soldiering is a young man&#039;s game.  My argument isn&#039;t so much about maturity, though, as it is about lining up obligations and rights.  If we demand that 18-year-olds be prepared to put their lives on the line for society, then we ought treat them as adults.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>fallacy of the "old-enough-to-soldier == old-enough-to-[insert favorite activity requiring maturity]" argument.</em></p>
<p>I don't disagree that soldiering is a young man's game.  My argument isn't so much about maturity, though, as it is about lining up obligations and rights.  If we demand that 18-year-olds be prepared to put their lives on the line for society, then we ought treat them as adults.</p>
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		<title>By: Jules Crittenden &#187; Girls Gone Wild News</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124035</link>
		<dc:creator>Jules Crittenden &#187; Girls Gone Wild News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 12:18:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124035</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Joyner, Outside the Beltway, on a nanny-state proposal vs. the erotic arts. [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Joyner, Outside the Beltway, on a nanny-state proposal vs. the erotic arts. [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: just me</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-124034</link>
		<dc:creator>just me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 12:02:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-124034</guid>
		<description>Kent makes a point.  Not a perfectly generalized one, but one I think probably with some truth, although I think in the fog of war many men/soldiers do things on instinct without thinking about the &quot;future&quot; or possible consequences, they just react.  Sometimes it takes the hill, sometimes it gets them killed and sometimes it may do both.

As for getting married at young ages-I am guessing that it varies some by region and family.  I had family from rural KY and TN mountains, and while a lot of people got married in their younger teens, I can&#039;t say my family tree is full of them.  At least one side has the geneology done back to the 1700&#039;s, and most of the marriages were somewhere between 16 and 20 for the women, and similar for the men.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent makes a point.  Not a perfectly generalized one, but one I think probably with some truth, although I think in the fog of war many men/soldiers do things on instinct without thinking about the "future" or possible consequences, they just react.  Sometimes it takes the hill, sometimes it gets them killed and sometimes it may do both.</p>
<p>As for getting married at young ages-I am guessing that it varies some by region and family.  I had family from rural KY and TN mountains, and while a lot of people got married in their younger teens, I can't say my family tree is full of them.  At least one side has the geneology done back to the 1700's, and most of the marriages were somewhere between 16 and 20 for the women, and similar for the men.</p>
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		<title>By: NewsTrust - About this Story - Girls Go Wild - Not Their Fault?</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123930</link>
		<dc:creator>NewsTrust - About this Story - Girls Go Wild - Not Their Fault?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 02:58:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123930</guid>
		<description>&lt;!--%kramer-ref-pre%--&gt;[...] Girls Go Wild - Not Their Fault? - Review&#160;this&#160;Story   Outside the Beltway - By James Joyner - May 5, 2007 - Full Story  Let&#039;s presume, though, that &quot;going wild&quot; on video actually has not yet become socially acceptable. Indeed, I rather hope that&#039;s the case. How old does one have to be to decide whether to buck social norms for fun, fame, fortune, or foolishness?In expanded thoughts on her own site, Garance notes that &quot;our laws recognize that maturity comes slowly,&quot; with different age thresholds required for voting, drinking, serving as Representative, Senator, and President. Any &quot;age of consent&quot; line is arbitrary in the particular no matter how scientific it is in the aggregate. Yet we draw lines anyway... More&#160;&#187; [...]&lt;!--%kramer-ref-post%--&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><!--%kramer-ref-pre%-->[...] Girls Go Wild - Not Their Fault? - Review this Story   Outside the Beltway - By James Joyner - May 5, 2007 - Full Story  Let's presume, though, that &quot;going wild&quot; on video actually has not yet become socially acceptable. Indeed, I rather hope that's the case. How old does one have to be to decide whether to buck social norms for fun, fame, fortune, or foolishness?In expanded thoughts on her own site, Garance notes that &quot;our laws recognize that maturity comes slowly,&quot; with different age thresholds required for voting, drinking, serving as Representative, Senator, and President. Any &quot;age of consent&quot; line is arbitrary in the particular no matter how scientific it is in the aggregate. Yet we draw lines anyway... More &raquo; [...]<!--%kramer-ref-post%--></p>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123928</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 02:52:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123928</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t think the reason we send 18-year-olds to war is because we think they&#039;re old enough and wise enough to rush a sniper. I think we send 18-year-olds to war because they&#039;re young enough and stupid enough to rush a sniper.

When you recognize that, you recognize the fallacy of the &quot;old-enough-to-soldier == old-enough-to-[insert favorite activity requiring maturity]&quot; argument.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don't think the reason we send 18-year-olds to war is because we think they're old enough and wise enough to rush a sniper. I think we send 18-year-olds to war because they're young enough and stupid enough to rush a sniper.</p>
<p>When you recognize that, you recognize the fallacy of the "old-enough-to-soldier == old-enough-to-[insert favorite activity requiring maturity]" argument.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123925</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 02:22:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123925</guid>
		<description>The answer to your question, James, &lt;a href=&quot;http://theglitteringeye.com/?p=2873&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;is here&lt;/a&gt;.  My family was definitely urban.  I&#039;ve researched some lines of my genealogy back nearly a thousand years and haven&#039;t yet found a farmer.

As to whether they were affluent, I&#039;d say it was various.  Some were quite prosperous; some were desperately poor.  But as best as I&#039;ve been able to tell family income has little to do with age or marriage and childbearing by women in my family.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The answer to your question, James, <a href="http://theglitteringeye.com/?p=2873" rel="nofollow">is here</a>.  My family was definitely urban.  I've researched some lines of my genealogy back nearly a thousand years and haven't yet found a farmer.</p>
<p>As to whether they were affluent, I'd say it was various.  Some were quite prosperous; some were desperately poor.  But as best as I've been able to tell family income has little to do with age or marriage and childbearing by women in my family.</p>
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		<title>By: The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Age at Birth of Oldest Child</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123924</link>
		<dc:creator>The Glittering Eye &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Age at Birth of Oldest Child</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 May 2007 02:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123924</guid>
		<description>[...] Once again the, shall we say, idiosyncracies of my family&#8217;s experience have been powerfully impressed on me. In the comments to this post of James Joyner&#8217;s I wondered about the age at which women married and had children in the past, citing my own family&#8217;s history. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Once again the, shall we say, idiosyncracies of my family&#8217;s experience have been powerfully impressed on me. In the comments to this post of James Joyner&#8217;s I wondered about the age at which women married and had children in the past, citing my own family&#8217;s history. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Verdon</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123878</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Verdon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:44:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123878</guid>
		<description>Funny how the side usually associated with the women&#039;s movement/feminism is actually portraying women and incapable of taking care of themselves and making their own decisions.  Perhaps the solution is to put these women in the custody of men to make the decisions for them.[/sarcasm]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Funny how the side usually associated with the women's movement/feminism is actually portraying women and incapable of taking care of themselves and making their own decisions.  Perhaps the solution is to put these women in the custody of men to make the decisions for them.[/sarcasm]</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123875</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:30:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123875</guid>
		<description>This isn&#039;t just something spiraling around the US.

Take a look at &lt;a href=&quot;http://xrdarabia.org/blog/archives/2007/05/05/saudi-women-discover-the-web-cam/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;what Saudi women are up to&lt;/a&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This isn't just something spiraling around the US.</p>
<p>Take a look at <a href="http://xrdarabia.org/blog/archives/2007/05/05/saudi-women-discover-the-web-cam/" rel="nofollow">what Saudi women are up to</a>!</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123872</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:12:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123872</guid>
		<description>I make note judgments, with this, but I find it interesting that you should post this so close to the article about the Iranian ambassador a stormed out because the violinist were showing a little cleavage.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I make note judgments, with this, but I find it interesting that you should post this so close to the article about the Iranian ambassador a stormed out because the violinist were showing a little cleavage.</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/comment-page-1/#comment-123870</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 May 2007 16:08:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/05/girls_go_wild_-_not_their_fault/#comment-123870</guid>
		<description>It appears many on this blog have had a sheltered life.  Girls getting married before 18 was  quite common even in urban areas as well as rural.  In the late 70s, there was a girl who married as a sophomore, for the baby.  What has changed is the social pressure to marry when a girl gets pregnant.  But it really doesn&#039;t matter as many women marry and have children at 18 and 19, which is the current threshold for going wild on tape.  You may have seen reports of the several girls under 18 charged as sexually exploiting a minor because they posted nude pictures of themselves on the internet.  How is a life as a listed sexual predator as a social stigma?

What the nanny staters don&#039;t want to face is that this is a consequence of the surveillance state.  Having grown up under the all seeing eye of the school and the mall security camera, many people today see no reason to not take the private public.  If your always going to be seen, why not let them see it all.  Not exactly what the nanny staters intended but they usually are bit by the law of unintended consequences.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It appears many on this blog have had a sheltered life.  Girls getting married before 18 was  quite common even in urban areas as well as rural.  In the late 70s, there was a girl who married as a sophomore, for the baby.  What has changed is the social pressure to marry when a girl gets pregnant.  But it really doesn't matter as many women marry and have children at 18 and 19, which is the current threshold for going wild on tape.  You may have seen reports of the several girls under 18 charged as sexually exploiting a minor because they posted nude pictures of themselves on the internet.  How is a life as a listed sexual predator as a social stigma?</p>
<p>What the nanny staters don't want to face is that this is a consequence of the surveillance state.  Having grown up under the all seeing eye of the school and the mall security camera, many people today see no reason to not take the private public.  If your always going to be seen, why not let them see it all.  Not exactly what the nanny staters intended but they usually are bit by the law of unintended consequences.</p>
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