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	<title>Comments on: GM Bankruptcy Over, GM Lite Emerges</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 04:32:40 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Marc Itzkowitz</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1096694</link>
		<dc:creator>Marc Itzkowitz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 16:07:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1096694</guid>
		<description>Even if the New GM works as a company it won’t work as an investment for the 300 Million US shareholders. Here is the scary math behind our little investment.

The government effectively will get 60% of General Motors in exchange for $50 Billion in aid.

This, using standard investor math, means that GM has an implied value of:

50 Billion/.60 = $83.3 Billion

Currently (just prior to bankruptcy) GM had 610 million shares outstanding.

That means that for the taxpayer to break-even GM shares (in the pre-bankruptcy world) would need to be worth $136.55 PER SHARE (83.3 Billion/610 Million)

The lifetime HIGH for GM is $93.62 back in April 2000 when the going was good. So good luck with that.

Oh and to complicate matters the government will see its holdings diluted if the bondholders take the extra 10% that they were promised as part of setting up the bankruptcy filing. If GM is doing well one would assume they would exercise these options and taxpayer shareholders would get diluted.

In that case the taxpayer stake goes to 54% which means an assumed market cap of $89.3 Billion or a per share price of $146.39

So even if GM were to return to its lifetime high of $93.62 the taxpayer would only get back $34 Billion 0r 68% of its investment if GM got as BIG as it ever was.

This of course is impossible based on the Government’s own admission that they are structuring GM to compete in an economy where car sales are 33% less than they are now. 

Sure these numbers are approximations and some of the debt might be repaid like a normal loan (and I hope most of it is) but you can tell that there is no way that the taxpayers will see even HALF of their money returned even if all the right things happened (in a short-period of time as President Obama doesn’t want to hold on for long).

Well look on the bright side. We got rust-protection and under-coating free with the deal and we know how important those are.

http://watchingmarcitz.com/2009/06/01/the-scary-math-behind-the-gm-taxpayer-bailout/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Even if the New GM works as a company it won&rsquo;t work as an investment for the 300 Million US shareholders. Here is the scary math behind our little investment.</p>
<p>The government effectively will get 60% of General Motors in exchange for $50 Billion in aid.</p>
<p>This, using standard investor math, means that GM has an implied value of:</p>
<p>50 Billion/.60 = $83.3 Billion</p>
<p>Currently (just prior to bankruptcy) GM had 610 million shares outstanding.</p>
<p>That means that for the taxpayer to break-even GM shares (in the pre-bankruptcy world) would need to be worth $136.55 PER SHARE (83.3 Billion/610 Million)</p>
<p>The lifetime HIGH for GM is $93.62 back in April 2000 when the going was good. So good luck with that.</p>
<p>Oh and to complicate matters the government will see its holdings diluted if the bondholders take the extra 10% that they were promised as part of setting up the bankruptcy filing. If GM is doing well one would assume they would exercise these options and taxpayer shareholders would get diluted.</p>
<p>In that case the taxpayer stake goes to 54% which means an assumed market cap of $89.3 Billion or a per share price of $146.39</p>
<p>So even if GM were to return to its lifetime high of $93.62 the taxpayer would only get back $34 Billion 0r 68% of its investment if GM got as BIG as it ever was.</p>
<p>This of course is impossible based on the Government&rsquo;s own admission that they are structuring GM to compete in an economy where car sales are 33% less than they are now. </p>
<p>Sure these numbers are approximations and some of the debt might be repaid like a normal loan (and I hope most of it is) but you can tell that there is no way that the taxpayers will see even HALF of their money returned even if all the right things happened (in a short-period of time as President Obama doesn&rsquo;t want to hold on for long).</p>
<p>Well look on the bright side. We got rust-protection and under-coating free with the deal and we know how important those are.</p>
<p><a href="http://watchingmarcitz.com/2009/06/01/the-scary-math-behind-the-gm-taxpayer-bailout/" rel="nofollow">http://watchingmarcitz.com/2009/06/01/the-scary-math-behind-the-gm-taxpayer-bailout/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Bill H</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1096643</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill H</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:23:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1096643</guid>
		<description>I have been wondering myself, and I still am. The deal was forced through by the government, and the government emerges as the major owner, which ought to raise a lot of eyebrows.

See &lt;a href=&quot;http://billsandiego.blogspot.com/2009/07/strange-bankruptcy.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;my blog post&lt;/a&gt; of yesterday.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have been wondering myself, and I still am. The deal was forced through by the government, and the government emerges as the major owner, which ought to raise a lot of eyebrows.</p>
<p>See <a href="http://billsandiego.blogspot.com/2009/07/strange-bankruptcy.html" rel="nofollow">my blog post</a> of yesterday.</p>
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		<title>By: Barry</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1096641</link>
		<dc:creator>Barry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 14:17:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1096641</guid>
		<description>&quot;My preferred approach would have been to use bankruptcy to set new performance standards for the dealerships. Those dealers that didn&#039;t like the new standards or couldn&#039;t meet them, could close and then file a claim in bankruptcy for any resulting financial obligation.&quot;

Posted by PD Shaw 

That would have been a good way.  The only thing I&#039;d change is to judge them on the past decade&#039;s performance, under the assumption that GM doesn&#039;t have years to waste.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"My preferred approach would have been to use bankruptcy to set new performance standards for the dealerships. Those dealers that didn't like the new standards or couldn't meet them, could close and then file a claim in bankruptcy for any resulting financial obligation."</p>
<p>Posted by PD Shaw </p>
<p>That would have been a good way.  The only thing I'd change is to judge them on the past decade's performance, under the assumption that GM doesn't have years to waste.</p>
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		<title>By: Weekend Opinionator: Is G.M. Back From the Dead? - The Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1096131</link>
		<dc:creator>Weekend Opinionator: Is G.M. Back From the Dead? - The Opinionator Blog - NYTimes.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 03:46:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1096131</guid>
		<description>[...] James Joyner at Outside the Beltway is glad the company has a few hurdles left: &#8220;The bad assets will continue to go through something akin to the traditional bankruptcy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] James Joyner at Outside the Beltway is glad the company has a few hurdles left: &#8220;The bad assets will continue to go through something akin to the traditional bankruptcy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1095829</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 11 Jul 2009 00:05:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1095829</guid>
		<description>One of the tenets of a successful economy is the protection of property rights. We can se scores of examples of unsuccessful economies around the world where property rights are protected, no success stories where property rights aren&#039;t protected.

Given the way the government has handled the property rights of the investors and creditors of GM, why would anyone put money into a business that had a democratic client (like the UAW) that could benefit from your money being stolen.

It is hard to pick which action by Obama will have the longest negative impact on the US, but the trampling of property rights for political expediency has to be in contention.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One of the tenets of a successful economy is the protection of property rights. We can se scores of examples of unsuccessful economies around the world where property rights are protected, no success stories where property rights aren't protected.</p>
<p>Given the way the government has handled the property rights of the investors and creditors of GM, why would anyone put money into a business that had a democratic client (like the UAW) that could benefit from your money being stolen.</p>
<p>It is hard to pick which action by Obama will have the longest negative impact on the US, but the trampling of property rights for political expediency has to be in contention.</p>
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		<title>By: PD Shaw</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1095559</link>
		<dc:creator>PD Shaw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:50:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1095559</guid>
		<description>AFAIK Chrysler and G.M. never gave a really sound business reason for cutting the dealerships, nor did they ever disclose the methodology used.  

A large part of the problem though is that by the time the cuts were being made, the government was already involved and the automakers and their czar were being lobbied on which dealerships to save.

My preferred approach would have been to use bankruptcy to set new performance standards for the dealerships.  Those dealers that didn&#039;t like the new standards or couldn&#039;t meet them, could close and then file a claim in bankruptcy for any resulting financial obligation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AFAIK Chrysler and G.M. never gave a really sound business reason for cutting the dealerships, nor did they ever disclose the methodology used.  </p>
<p>A large part of the problem though is that by the time the cuts were being made, the government was already involved and the automakers and their czar were being lobbied on which dealerships to save.</p>
<p>My preferred approach would have been to use bankruptcy to set new performance standards for the dealerships.  Those dealers that didn't like the new standards or couldn't meet them, could close and then file a claim in bankruptcy for any resulting financial obligation.</p>
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		<title>By: JKB</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1095539</link>
		<dc:creator>JKB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:42:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1095539</guid>
		<description>Well, the intervention in the dealership closing is simply proof that the companies will not be operated free of meddling by the government.  So new investment by those not as powerful as the government or the UAW is a fools errand.  If the companies do something in the corporate interest that isn&#039;t liked by the big powerful &quot;investors&quot; then the little investor is screwed.  

Many of us without billions, tag along with the big investors who can influence decisions in operating their investments but we do so with the assumption that influence will be to increase the value of the investment.  The government and the UAW &lt;strike&gt;may not&lt;/strike&gt; probably won&#039;t influence to increase return or even to strengthen  survival of the company.  Their investment strategies are not to make money but to pursue agendas divorced from market realities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, the intervention in the dealership closing is simply proof that the companies will not be operated free of meddling by the government.  So new investment by those not as powerful as the government or the UAW is a fools errand.  If the companies do something in the corporate interest that isn't liked by the big powerful "investors" then the little investor is screwed.  </p>
<p>Many of us without billions, tag along with the big investors who can influence decisions in operating their investments but we do so with the assumption that influence will be to increase the value of the investment.  The government and the UAW <strike>may not</strike> probably won't influence to increase return or even to strengthen  survival of the company.  Their investment strategies are not to make money but to pursue agendas divorced from market realities.</p>
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		<title>By: markm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/gm_bankruptcy_over_gm_lite_emerges/comment-page-1/#comment-1095489</link>
		<dc:creator>markm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Jul 2009 21:05:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=39238#comment-1095489</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Jim Manzi, Kevin Drum, and Matt Yglesias are upset with the notion that the government might intervene to keep the automakers from unilaterally closing 2000 dealerships.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Dunno why. As I see it, the Feds mandated, as part of the aid they recieved prior to bankruptcy, that GM and Chrysler cut dealerships. The only problem was that those dealerships (privately owned companies of 70-120 employees)were found to donate a lot of $$$ within communities (sponsors of little leage baseball, soccer, etc.) not to mention the unease of the added layoffs and the problems for state reps in Washington. Oddly, there was a sudden reversal that they didn&#039;t need to cut more dealerships. 

So at this point, closing any dealerships would give the appearance that it was via the heavy hand of the Feds. It&#039;s pure politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Jim Manzi, Kevin Drum, and Matt Yglesias are upset with the notion that the government might intervene to keep the automakers from unilaterally closing 2000 dealerships.</p></blockquote>
<p>Dunno why. As I see it, the Feds mandated, as part of the aid they recieved prior to bankruptcy, that GM and Chrysler cut dealerships. The only problem was that those dealerships (privately owned companies of 70-120 employees)were found to donate a lot of $$$ within communities (sponsors of little leage baseball, soccer, etc.) not to mention the unease of the added layoffs and the problems for state reps in Washington. Oddly, there was a sudden reversal that they didn't need to cut more dealerships. </p>
<p>So at this point, closing any dealerships would give the appearance that it was via the heavy hand of the Feds. It's pure politics.</p>
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