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	<title>Comments on: Hamas Is Not An Iranian Proxy</title>
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	<lastBuildDate>Tue, 24 Nov 2009 23:06:48 -0600</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-601394</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 Jan 2009 14:30:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Good Lord, this is the measure of your analysis...whether or not Iran issues a denial&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And the measure of yours is what, exactly? Is it, as I suspect a parallel to another in this thread, that the Jpost covered the story?

&lt;blockquote&gt;Hamas receives more money from Saudi Arabia than from Iran&lt;/blockquote&gt;
But more weapons from Iran. And, more threats, apparently.


&lt;blockquote&gt;Let me ask you something...Why is it so important that Iran be behind all of this? Are you seeking some kind of causus &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Because that scenario fits the facts to hand. Why is it so important that Iran NOT be behind all of this? Is it so you can lay further blame for the conflict on Israel, I wonder?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Good Lord, this is the measure of your analysis...whether or not Iran issues a denial</p></blockquote>
<p>And the measure of yours is what, exactly? Is it, as I suspect a parallel to another in this thread, that the Jpost covered the story?</p>
<blockquote><p>Hamas receives more money from Saudi Arabia than from Iran</p></blockquote>
<p>But more weapons from Iran. And, more threats, apparently.</p>
<blockquote><p>Let me ask you something...Why is it so important that Iran be behind all of this? Are you seeking some kind of causus </p></blockquote>
<p>Because that scenario fits the facts to hand. Why is it so important that Iran NOT be behind all of this? Is it so you can lay further blame for the conflict on Israel, I wonder?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Smithe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550575</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Smithe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 18:20:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550575</guid>
		<description>&quot;ummm... have there been any denials on the point issued by Iran? They never hesitate to issue denials, right?&quot;

Good Lord, this is the measure of your analysis...whether or not Iran issues a denial. I thought that Iran was an untrustworthy bunch? Apparently not when they agree with your good ideas.

Just what constitutes a &quot;proxy?&quot; Hamas receives more money from Saudi Arabia than from Iran. Are you telling us all that Iran has more influence over a Sunni organization than Saudi Arabia does? Let&#039;s assume for a moment that I&#039;m correct...Do Iran and Saudi Arabia&#039;s goals coincide? 

Honestly you need to bury your emotion and start focusing on the FACTS. Iran is not calling the shots...and even if they were it would be impossible to know. Is it unreasonable to believe that perhaps Hamas doesn&#039;t like the Israelis based solely upon their own history?

Let me ask you something...Why is it so important that Iran be behind all of this? Are you seeking some kind of causus belli?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"ummm... have there been any denials on the point issued by Iran? They never hesitate to issue denials, right?"</p>
<p>Good Lord, this is the measure of your analysis...whether or not Iran issues a denial. I thought that Iran was an untrustworthy bunch? Apparently not when they agree with your good ideas.</p>
<p>Just what constitutes a "proxy?" Hamas receives more money from Saudi Arabia than from Iran. Are you telling us all that Iran has more influence over a Sunni organization than Saudi Arabia does? Let's assume for a moment that I'm correct...Do Iran and Saudi Arabia's goals coincide? </p>
<p>Honestly you need to bury your emotion and start focusing on the FACTS. Iran is not calling the shots...and even if they were it would be impossible to know. Is it unreasonable to believe that perhaps Hamas doesn't like the Israelis based solely upon their own history?</p>
<p>Let me ask you something...Why is it so important that Iran be behind all of this? Are you seeking some kind of causus belli?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550562</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:28:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550562</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The implication being that the you would view the same evidence as trustworthy....&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No, the implication is, I&#039;d agree with the move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The implication being that the you would view the same evidence as trustworthy....</p></blockquote>
<p>No, the implication is, I'd agree with the move.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550561</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:21:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550561</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;So says an unnamed Egyptian official about a meeting in Syria that didn&#039;t involve any Egyptians, about a country and organization that Egypt is not particularly fond of, told to an Israeli newspaper&lt;/blockquote&gt;

(Mumbles...And you wonder why we don&#039;t trust the Dinosaur media.)

ummm... have there been any denials on the point issued by Iran? They never hesitate to issue denials, right?

Were these wto in fact, there for the meeting? 
(Clue: there are pictures)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>So says an unnamed Egyptian official about a meeting in Syria that didn't involve any Egyptians, about a country and organization that Egypt is not particularly fond of, told to an Israeli newspaper</p></blockquote>
<p>(Mumbles...And you wonder why we don't trust the Dinosaur media.)</p>
<p>ummm... have there been any denials on the point issued by Iran? They never hesitate to issue denials, right?</p>
<p>Were these wto in fact, there for the meeting?<br />
(Clue: there are pictures)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550560</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:20:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550560</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;That depends. Who has the White House at the time?&lt;/blockquote&gt;The implication being that the you would view the same evidence as trustworthy if it validates your already held beliefs, but not if it contradicts them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>That depends. Who has the White House at the time?</p></blockquote>
<p>The implication being that the you would view the same evidence as trustworthy if it validates your already held beliefs, but not if it contradicts them.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550559</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 17:13:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550559</guid>
		<description>That depends. Who has the White House at the time?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That depends. Who has the White House at the time?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550536</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550536</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Think about it this way, change the names of the players... Exchange the Palastinians for Israel, and exchange Iran for the US. Given the situation as described above, would you not say Israel was a proxy for the US in the region?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Okay, lets play that hypothetical.  Say an unnamed Syrian official claims in a Gaza paper that US representatives met with Israeli representatives in Riyadh and told them not to agree to the cease fire.

Now tell me, wouldn&#039;t &lt;i&gt;you&lt;/i&gt; be skeptical about that claim?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Think about it this way, change the names of the players... Exchange the Palastinians for Israel, and exchange Iran for the US. Given the situation as described above, would you not say Israel was a proxy for the US in the region?</p></blockquote>
<p>Okay, lets play that hypothetical.  Say an unnamed Syrian official claims in a Gaza paper that US representatives met with Israeli representatives in Riyadh and told them not to agree to the cease fire.</p>
<p>Now tell me, wouldn't <i>you</i> be skeptical about that claim?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550533</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:59:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550533</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I should think that self evident;
Hamas IS a proxy for Iran.&lt;/blockquote&gt;So says an unnamed Egyptian official about a meeting in Syria that didn&#039;t involve any Egyptians, about a country and organization that Egypt is not particularly fond of, told to an Israeli newspaper.

But hey, if that&#039;s enough proof for you...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I should think that self evident;<br />
Hamas IS a proxy for Iran.</p></blockquote>
<p>So says an unnamed Egyptian official about a meeting in Syria that didn't involve any Egyptians, about a country and organization that Egypt is not particularly fond of, told to an Israeli newspaper.</p>
<p>But hey, if that's enough proof for you...</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550501</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 15:08:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550501</guid>
		<description>I should think that self evident;
Hamas IS a proxy for Iran. Always has been.

Think about it this way, change the names of the players... Exchange the Palastinians for Israel, and exchange Iran for the US. Given the situation as described above, would you not say Israel was a proxy for the US in the region?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I should think that self evident;<br />
Hamas IS a proxy for Iran. Always has been.</p>
<p>Think about it this way, change the names of the players... Exchange the Palastinians for Israel, and exchange Iran for the US. Given the situation as described above, would you not say Israel was a proxy for the US in the region?</p>
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		<title>By: Michael</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550490</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 14:34:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550490</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Any questions, class?&lt;/blockquote&gt;Yes: Why was that relevant?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Any questions, class?</p></blockquote>
<p>Yes: Why was that relevant?</p>
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		<title>By: Iran pulling Hamas puppet strings &#124; BitsBlog</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550462</link>
		<dc:creator>Iran pulling Hamas puppet strings &#124; BitsBlog</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:34:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550462</guid>
		<description>[...] who is naive enough claim that Iran is not at the opposite end of the Palestinian puppet strings (Are you listening, Alex?) ought to check this article out in the Jerusalem Post this morning. Iran is exerting heavy [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] who is naive enough claim that Iran is not at the opposite end of the Palestinian puppet strings (Are you listening, Alex?) ought to check this article out in the Jerusalem Post this morning. Iran is exerting heavy [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550461</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 12:32:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550461</guid>
		<description>http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull
&lt;blockquote&gt;
    Iran is exerting heavy pressure on Hamas not to accept the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Israel, an Egyptian government official said on Sunday.

    …
    The Egyptian official said that the two Iranian emissaries, Ali Larijani, Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, and Said Jalili of the Iranian Intelligence Service, met in the Syrian capital with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal and Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Ramadan Shallah.

    “As soon as the Iranians heard about the Egyptian cease-fire initiative, they dispatched the two officials to Damascus on an urgent mission to warn the Palestinians against accepting it,” the Egyptian government official told the Post.

    “The Iranians threatened to stop weapons supplies and funding to the Palestinian factions if they agreed to a cease-fire with Israel. The Iranians want to fight Israel and the US indirectly. They are doing this through Hamas in Palestine and Hizbullah in Lebanon”. &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Any questions, class?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull" rel="nofollow">http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1231424929369&amp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull</a></p>
<blockquote><p>
    Iran is exerting heavy pressure on Hamas not to accept the Egyptian proposal for a cease-fire with Israel, an Egyptian government official said on Sunday.</p>
<p>    …<br />
    The Egyptian official said that the two Iranian emissaries, Ali Larijani, Speaker of the Iranian Parliament, and Said Jalili of the Iranian Intelligence Service, met in the Syrian capital with Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal and Islamic Jihad Secretary-General Ramadan Shallah.</p>
<p>    “As soon as the Iranians heard about the Egyptian cease-fire initiative, they dispatched the two officials to Damascus on an urgent mission to warn the Palestinians against accepting it,” the Egyptian government official told the Post.</p>
<p>    “The Iranians threatened to stop weapons supplies and funding to the Palestinian factions if they agreed to a cease-fire with Israel. The Iranians want to fight Israel and the US indirectly. They are doing this through Hamas in Palestine and Hizbullah in Lebanon”. </p></blockquote>
<p>Any questions, class?</p>
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		<title>By: Ed Smithe</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550334</link>
		<dc:creator>Ed Smithe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Jan 2009 03:38:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550334</guid>
		<description>And therein lies the central problem with our country. Too many of our countrymen do not burden themselves with the necessary task of actually READING and RESEARCHING the complicated nature of this fight. Iran is an insignificant part of the Hamas problem...Was it Iran that forced a majority of Palestinians to (democratically) elect these thugs over the corrupt, incompetent and U.S. supported PA? Was it Iran that prevented the people in Gaza from stopping these terrorists from launching their missiles at Israel? 

As dangerous as Iran is, they are not the responsible party in this case. Rather than propose another war be started, perhaps these individuals should take the time to understand this problem...or are our men and women not worth the effort?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And therein lies the central problem with our country. Too many of our countrymen do not burden themselves with the necessary task of actually READING and RESEARCHING the complicated nature of this fight. Iran is an insignificant part of the Hamas problem...Was it Iran that forced a majority of Palestinians to (democratically) elect these thugs over the corrupt, incompetent and U.S. supported PA? Was it Iran that prevented the people in Gaza from stopping these terrorists from launching their missiles at Israel? </p>
<p>As dangerous as Iran is, they are not the responsible party in this case. Rather than propose another war be started, perhaps these individuals should take the time to understand this problem...or are our men and women not worth the effort?</p>
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		<title>By: Daily Koan &#187; Joe and the PJ Circus&#8230;send in the clowns&#8230;</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-550109</link>
		<dc:creator>Daily Koan &#187; Joe and the PJ Circus&#8230;send in the clowns&#8230;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 18:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-550109</guid>
		<description>[...] in Gaza?  Reason Magazine is covering Gaza and here is the author&#8217;s bio page.  What about OTB&#8217;s assessment and author?  What about me?  Am I [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] in Gaza?  Reason Magazine is covering Gaza and here is the author&#8217;s bio page.  What about OTB&#8217;s assessment and author?  What about me?  Am I [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/hamas_is_not_an_iranian_proxy/comment-page-1/#comment-549849</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Jan 2009 00:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=29619#comment-549849</guid>
		<description>May I say something as I have been following the Iran\Israel relation\conflict a little. There is no question about the relation before the Iranian revolution, Shah (king) was a friend of Israel, but wanted to have the upper hand in the region, like a regional super power. That dream was\is still in Iranian leader&#039;s minds.

After the revolution, under the rhetorical surface, there has been three periods in Iran\Israel relationship.

Period One, until the outburst Iran-Iraq war in 1980, Iran was building relation with palestinians and distancing from Israel, Arafat went to Iran and was promised a lot of money (but never received more than a few percent of it!), there he noticed that Iranians are not true, but tactical supporters of Palestine and that feeling is still in the hearts of Palestinians.

Period Two, after the outburst of Iran\Iraq war, almost all Arabs, including Palestinians sided with Iraq, Arafat praised Saddam, so Iran got much closer to Israel, all Iranian logistics were American while there was no relation with the US, much of Iran&#039;s need was provided through Israel, as Iran was fighting the direct enemy of Israel, i.e. Arab Iraq. this unspoken bond was in effect until after the first (Persian) Gulf war. when Iraq became so weak, and with Iran&#039;s ambition (and growing population and power) Arab were more afraid of Iran than Israel. Israel took advantage of the situation and changed enemies. Recall that the Iranian-Arab conflict is much older than the Israeli-Arab conflict! This achieved its height in double containment and Helm-Burton and D&#039;Amoto law&#039;s in US congress that banned trade with Iran (and they really hurt Iran&#039;s economy extensively, nearly every Iranian was supporting Bush in 2000, cause they hated Clinton!) Iran saw all these things coming from Israel, and started investing against Israel ever since.

But Iran&#039;s most important concern is its sovereignty and fear of attack from US and being divided by force, that&#039;s why they are seeking Nuclear power. Ahmadi-Nejhad came to power merely because Iran-US talks failed, Iran has always been seeking an agreement with US in which US would promise not to attack and not to support dividing Iran, and correctly or incorrectly, Iran sees Israel as the force preventing it to happen. In 2003 Iran suggested an agreement with the US which entailed disarmament of Hezbollah (the true proxy of Iran which those who claim Iran is involved now should answer why Hezbollah is not doing anything) and recognizing Israel. It was rejected by Americans and Iran naturally blamed Israel for that. Since then Israel would become number one enemy of Arabs again.

Israel (in my belief) has never been afraid of a Nuclear Iran, but a Nuclear Arab world, and the first will lead to the second inevitably. Iran is a tactical enemy while the Arab neighbors are strategic ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>May I say something as I have been following the Iran\Israel relation\conflict a little. There is no question about the relation before the Iranian revolution, Shah (king) was a friend of Israel, but wanted to have the upper hand in the region, like a regional super power. That dream was\is still in Iranian leader's minds.</p>
<p>After the revolution, under the rhetorical surface, there has been three periods in Iran\Israel relationship.</p>
<p>Period One, until the outburst Iran-Iraq war in 1980, Iran was building relation with palestinians and distancing from Israel, Arafat went to Iran and was promised a lot of money (but never received more than a few percent of it!), there he noticed that Iranians are not true, but tactical supporters of Palestine and that feeling is still in the hearts of Palestinians.</p>
<p>Period Two, after the outburst of Iran\Iraq war, almost all Arabs, including Palestinians sided with Iraq, Arafat praised Saddam, so Iran got much closer to Israel, all Iranian logistics were American while there was no relation with the US, much of Iran's need was provided through Israel, as Iran was fighting the direct enemy of Israel, i.e. Arab Iraq. this unspoken bond was in effect until after the first (Persian) Gulf war. when Iraq became so weak, and with Iran's ambition (and growing population and power) Arab were more afraid of Iran than Israel. Israel took advantage of the situation and changed enemies. Recall that the Iranian-Arab conflict is much older than the Israeli-Arab conflict! This achieved its height in double containment and Helm-Burton and D'Amoto law's in US congress that banned trade with Iran (and they really hurt Iran's economy extensively, nearly every Iranian was supporting Bush in 2000, cause they hated Clinton!) Iran saw all these things coming from Israel, and started investing against Israel ever since.</p>
<p>But Iran's most important concern is its sovereignty and fear of attack from US and being divided by force, that's why they are seeking Nuclear power. Ahmadi-Nejhad came to power merely because Iran-US talks failed, Iran has always been seeking an agreement with US in which US would promise not to attack and not to support dividing Iran, and correctly or incorrectly, Iran sees Israel as the force preventing it to happen. In 2003 Iran suggested an agreement with the US which entailed disarmament of Hezbollah (the true proxy of Iran which those who claim Iran is involved now should answer why Hezbollah is not doing anything) and recognizing Israel. It was rejected by Americans and Iran naturally blamed Israel for that. Since then Israel would become number one enemy of Arabs again.</p>
<p>Israel (in my belief) has never been afraid of a Nuclear Iran, but a Nuclear Arab world, and the first will lead to the second inevitably. Iran is a tactical enemy while the Arab neighbors are strategic ones.</p>
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