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	<title>Comments on: Holder and the Rich Pardon</title>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531835</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:22:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531835</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Holder supposedly used the Rich pardon to promote his own interests. If true, &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; does directly impinge on his fitness for the office of AG.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I agree completely on the last. I haven&#039;t seen anything on the first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Holder supposedly used the Rich pardon to promote his own interests. If true, <em>that</em> does directly impinge on his fitness for the office of AG.</p></blockquote>
<p>I agree completely on the last. I haven't seen anything on the first.</p>
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		<title>By: Dodd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531826</link>
		<dc:creator>Dodd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:07:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531826</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not the pardon itself that raises questions for me. It&#039;s the self-dealing. The President can pardon whomever he wishes for whatever reason. But Holder supposedly used the Rich pardon to promote his own interests. If true, &lt;em&gt;that&lt;/em&gt; does directly impinge on his fitness for the office of AG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's not the pardon itself that raises questions for me. It's the self-dealing. The President can pardon whomever he wishes for whatever reason. But Holder supposedly used the Rich pardon to promote his own interests. If true, <em>that</em> does directly impinge on his fitness for the office of AG.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531824</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 16:05:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531824</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;indefinitely in a Gitmo jail cell.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

No.

Under it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>indefinitely in a Gitmo jail cell.</p></blockquote>
<p>No.</p>
<p>Under it.</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531729</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 05:09:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531729</guid>
		<description>Anyone who had anything to do with Clinton is a yellow-bellied liberal.  This Holder character should be &quot;held&quot;--indefinitely in a Gitmo jail cell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anyone who had anything to do with Clinton is a yellow-bellied liberal.  This Holder character should be "held"--indefinitely in a Gitmo jail cell.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531727</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 04:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531727</guid>
		<description>Does his having been involved in Clinton&#039;s Last Day pardons disqualify him? No.

Does it uphold Obama&#039;s marketing as Change We Can Believe In&#8482;? Assuming one actually did believe in it, no.

As for this...&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Expecting reform before that takes place is actually pretty silly.&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;...the argument itself is silly. Right now we are watching as the self-proclaimed reformer creates his reform administration out of, well, a bunch of retreads from a former administration whose claim of ethical superiority turned out to be pure satire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does his having been involved in Clinton's Last Day pardons disqualify him? No.</p>
<p>Does it uphold Obama's marketing as Change We Can Believe In&trade;? Assuming one actually did believe in it, no.</p>
<p>As for this...<br />
<blockquote><em>Expecting reform before that takes place is actually pretty silly.</em></p></blockquote>
<p>...the argument itself is silly. Right now we are watching as the self-proclaimed reformer creates his reform administration out of, well, a bunch of retreads from a former administration whose claim of ethical superiority turned out to be pure satire.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531723</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 03:18:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531723</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Well, yes, anjin-san. When you run as a reform candidate, people actually expect you to reform. It&#039;s a cruel world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Well, let&#039;s see what happens when he actually takes office. Expecting reform before that takes place is actually pretty silly.

If Obama&#039;s intention as an executive has a strong thrust towards reform, I expect his senior staff will act on it, regardless of their resumes, or they will find themselves looking for new jobs.

If 18 months from now, there is no sign that Obama was ever serious about reform, people will have something to bitch about. Until then they are either bitching because they enjoy it, or because they can&#039;t think of anything interesting to say.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Well, yes, anjin-san. When you run as a reform candidate, people actually expect you to reform. It's a cruel world.</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, let's see what happens when he actually takes office. Expecting reform before that takes place is actually pretty silly.</p>
<p>If Obama's intention as an executive has a strong thrust towards reform, I expect his senior staff will act on it, regardless of their resumes, or they will find themselves looking for new jobs.</p>
<p>If 18 months from now, there is no sign that Obama was ever serious about reform, people will have something to bitch about. Until then they are either bitching because they enjoy it, or because they can't think of anything interesting to say.</p>
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		<title>By: belloscm</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531721</link>
		<dc:creator>belloscm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 02:49:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531721</guid>
		<description>&quot;Even if Holder had opposed the pardon, Clinton could have done it, anyway.&quot;

&quot;If&quot; Holder had opposed the pardon and, say, resigned on principle, he would now be regarded as a man of true integrity, not the butt-snorkeling shaper and trimmer that he is now.

Btw, wasn&#039;t an AG just recently hounded from office because of his unprincipled willingness to please his political masters? Would Alberto have kept his job if he had &quot;learned his lessons&quot;?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Even if Holder had opposed the pardon, Clinton could have done it, anyway."</p>
<p>"If" Holder had opposed the pardon and, say, resigned on principle, he would now be regarded as a man of true integrity, not the butt-snorkeling shaper and trimmer that he is now.</p>
<p>Btw, wasn't an AG just recently hounded from office because of his unprincipled willingness to please his political masters? Would Alberto have kept his job if he had "learned his lessons"?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531594</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:32:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531594</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Well, yes, anjin-san.  When you run as a reform candidate, people actually expect you to reform.  It&#039;s a cruel world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.
</p></blockquote>
<p>Well, yes, anjin-san.  When you run as a reform candidate, people actually expect you to reform.  It's a cruel world.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531590</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:18:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531590</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.&lt;/blockquote&gt;


Really?
Well, let&#039;s keep playing that game.
Postulate that following a Mccain victory at the polls, he proceeded to pile on the Bush appointees.

What&#039;s your reaction now?
 
(Amused stare)
 
Yeah, I thought so. Next?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.</p></blockquote>
<p>Really?<br />
Well, let's keep playing that game.<br />
Postulate that following a Mccain victory at the polls, he proceeded to pile on the Bush appointees.</p>
<p>What's your reaction now?</p>
<p>(Amused stare)</p>
<p>Yeah, I thought so. Next?</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531587</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:10:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531587</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Holder enabled it; no evidence he encouraged it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m not sure we can be quite so generous.
Mind usually I don&#039;t have much use for Richard Cohen... but check this out. 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120102403.html

&lt;blockquote&gt;Rich was a commodities trader who amassed both a fortune and some influential friends in the 1970s and &#039;80s. Along with his partner, Pincus Green, he was indicted in 1983 on 65 counts of tax evasion and related matters. Before he could be prosecuted, however, he fled to Switzerland. There he remained, avoiding extradition and eventually arranging to be represented by Jack Quinn, a Washington lawyer and Clinton&#039;s onetime White House counsel -- in other words, a certified power broker. Quinn did an end run around the Justice Department&#039;s pardon office and went straight to Holder and the White House. With a stroke of a pen, justice was not done. 

Holder was not just an integral part of the pardon process, he provided the White House with cover by offering his go-ahead recommendation. No alarm seemed to sound for him. Not only had strings been pulled, but it was rare to pardon a fugitive -- someone who had avoided possible conviction by avoiding the inconvenience of a trial. The U.S. attorney&#039;s office in New York -- which, Holder had told the White House, would oppose any pardon -- was kept ignorant of what was going on. Afterward, it was furious. 

...

But the pardon cannot be excepted. It suggests that Holder, whatever his other qualifications, could not say no to power. The Rich pardon request had power written all over it -- the patronage of important Democratic fundraisers, for instance. Holder also said he was &quot;really struck&quot; by the backing of Rich by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and the possibility of &quot;foreign policy benefits that would be reaped by granting the pardon.&quot; This is an odd standard for American justice, but more than that, what was Holder thinking? That U.S.-Israeli relations would suffer? Holder does not sound naive. He sounds disingenuous. 

Holder sounded just as disingenuous when he told a House committee that he did not &quot;reflexively oppose&quot; the pardon of a fugitive because &quot;I had previously supported a successful pardon request for a fugitive, Preston King.&quot; King, a black civil rights activist, chose to be tried for draft evasion in 1961 rather than submit to what he considered racist treatment. After his conviction, he fled to Europe. The two cases are not in the least similar.&lt;/blockquote&gt; 

Clearly, Holder saw an opportunity to make points for himself with democrat financial backers. Clearly, with this appointment, those points paid off.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Holder enabled it; no evidence he encouraged it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I'm not sure we can be quite so generous.<br />
Mind usually I don't have much use for Richard Cohen... but check this out. </p>
<p><a href="http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120102403.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/12/01/AR2008120102403.html</a></p>
<blockquote><p>Rich was a commodities trader who amassed both a fortune and some influential friends in the 1970s and '80s. Along with his partner, Pincus Green, he was indicted in 1983 on 65 counts of tax evasion and related matters. Before he could be prosecuted, however, he fled to Switzerland. There he remained, avoiding extradition and eventually arranging to be represented by Jack Quinn, a Washington lawyer and Clinton's onetime White House counsel -- in other words, a certified power broker. Quinn did an end run around the Justice Department's pardon office and went straight to Holder and the White House. With a stroke of a pen, justice was not done. </p>
<p>Holder was not just an integral part of the pardon process, he provided the White House with cover by offering his go-ahead recommendation. No alarm seemed to sound for him. Not only had strings been pulled, but it was rare to pardon a fugitive -- someone who had avoided possible conviction by avoiding the inconvenience of a trial. The U.S. attorney's office in New York -- which, Holder had told the White House, would oppose any pardon -- was kept ignorant of what was going on. Afterward, it was furious. </p>
<p>...</p>
<p>But the pardon cannot be excepted. It suggests that Holder, whatever his other qualifications, could not say no to power. The Rich pardon request had power written all over it -- the patronage of important Democratic fundraisers, for instance. Holder also said he was "really struck" by the backing of Rich by Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Barak and the possibility of "foreign policy benefits that would be reaped by granting the pardon." This is an odd standard for American justice, but more than that, what was Holder thinking? That U.S.-Israeli relations would suffer? Holder does not sound naive. He sounds disingenuous. </p>
<p>Holder sounded just as disingenuous when he told a House committee that he did not "reflexively oppose" the pardon of a fugitive because "I had previously supported a successful pardon request for a fugitive, Preston King." King, a black civil rights activist, chose to be tried for draft evasion in 1961 rather than submit to what he considered racist treatment. After his conviction, he fled to Europe. The two cases are not in the least similar.</p></blockquote>
<p>Clearly, Holder saw an opportunity to make points for himself with democrat financial backers. Clearly, with this appointment, those points paid off.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531584</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 20:02:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531584</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I note that Obama&#039;s cabinet is basically a variant on Clinton&#039;s cabinet. Clinton 2.0 if you will. Change you can believe in!&lt;/blockquote&gt;

And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.

The whine is certainly a constant...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I note that Obama's cabinet is basically a variant on Clinton's cabinet. Clinton 2.0 if you will. Change you can believe in!</p></blockquote>
<p>And if Obama had picked a bunch of unknowns, you could whine about him putting rookies in charge of the government in a time of financial crisis, war, terrorist threats and so on.</p>
<p>The whine is certainly a constant...</p>
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		<title>By: Kevin Drum</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531570</link>
		<dc:creator>Kevin Drum</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 19:05:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531570</guid>
		<description>Actually, I said that I &lt;em&gt;wasn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; really all the disturbed by Holder&#039;s role.  It wasn&#039;t exactly a high point of his career, but by itself it doesn&#039;t strike me as something that should prevent him from serving as AG.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, I said that I <em>wasn't</em> really all the disturbed by Holder's role.  It wasn't exactly a high point of his career, but by itself it doesn't strike me as something that should prevent him from serving as AG.</p>
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		<title>By: odograph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531557</link>
		<dc:creator>odograph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:48:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531557</guid>
		<description>Clinton went pardon crazy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Clinton went pardon crazy.</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531554</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:42:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531554</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;But it seems to me a question too, of who encouarged the action. That, clearly, was Holder.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Holder &lt;em&gt;enabled&lt;/em&gt; it; no evidence he &lt;em&gt;encouraged&lt;/em&gt; it.

&lt;blockquote&gt;During the waning days of the Clinton Administration the requests for pardon didn&#039;t go through the Office of Pardon Attorney as is usually the case. They went straight to Eric Holder.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I do think that&#039;s normally the case for 11th hour pardons.  Basically, the OPA is there to handle petitions from ordinary criminals whereas the president and his team usually vet political and personal pardons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>But it seems to me a question too, of who encouarged the action. That, clearly, was Holder.</p></blockquote>
<p>Holder <em>enabled</em> it; no evidence he <em>encouraged</em> it.</p>
<blockquote><p>During the waning days of the Clinton Administration the requests for pardon didn't go through the Office of Pardon Attorney as is usually the case. They went straight to Eric Holder.</p></blockquote>
<p>I do think that's normally the case for 11th hour pardons.  Basically, the OPA is there to handle petitions from ordinary criminals whereas the president and his team usually vet political and personal pardons.</p>
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		<title>By: Bithead</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/holder_and_the_rich_pardon/comment-page-1/#comment-531550</link>
		<dc:creator>Bithead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:29:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/?p=28152#comment-531550</guid>
		<description>I tend to agree with Schuler, here.
Blame clinton if you like... I&#039;ll not defend him. But it seems to me a question too, of who encouarged the action. That, clearly, was Holder.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I tend to agree with Schuler, here.<br />
Blame clinton if you like... I'll not defend him. But it seems to me a question too, of who encouarged the action. That, clearly, was Holder.</p>
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