I don't think the religious right "lost" on the issues you stated. Rather, they weren't even in the fight until after most of the issues were lost. And much of what gets classified as "religious right" is really just middle America - the red states, if you will, with more conservative, traditional views than the coasts and the (yes, I said it) liberal media.

In short, most of the "religious right" is really the "American center." And that drives Kevin Drum crazy.

As you blogged a while back (I'm too lazy to look for link) they represent a very small subset of the population compared to their perceived numbers and political power.

When the health statics come out every year the first thing they they talk about is the number of people who died from AIDS. Forget it is merely a virus that is both preventable and not near the biggest killer in the world. Heart disease and Cancer are buried but AIDS numbers are front and center.

If you go to the CIA factbook site and look up different countries, they post prominently how many people in the country have AIDS but don't mention malaria or any other diseases.

I've never heard Kevin complain about gays having undo sway over policy.

It strikes me that Kevin's problem is not disproportional democratic representation but that Christians might (gasp) want to be represented too.

And really, if people are actually seriously considering passing a Constitutional amendment basically saying that homosexual love is a nonexistent joke, how politically powerful can they really be?

Bryan: Needless to say, the religious right has little influence in California. But it does in lots of other places.

My problem isn't so much that they have influence (though of course I'm on the opposite side) but that Republicans endlessly pretend that they don't. I don't pretend that gays or blacks or labor have no influence on the Democratic party, so why the pretense about the religious right and Republicans?

And James, although there are issues where the religious right more or less is in sync with other groups, there's not much question that most of the energy and activism and money on these issues (abortion, prayer, stem cells, gays, etc.) comes from the religious right. If not for them, they would be moderate issues that would probably have been compromised away long ago. They're the ones who keep the culture war going.

I happen to agree that they will eventually lose their battles. But they haven't yet, and we libs have to fight tooth and nail to keep them at bay. I wish we got a little more help from moderate Republicans on this.

I'm sure you do, Kevin, but that's a pretty unrealistic wish. Moderate Republicans generally agree more with their Religious Right wing than they do with Democrats. Remember, there's a similarly wide spectrum of liberalism in the Democratic Party, much of it very distasteful to moderates.

That "hard science" is merely a theory that's never been fully proved. And there's plenty of science that backs up the "religious mythology".

Personally, I have no problem with the theory of evolution being taught in schools - as a theory rather than as the truth - as long as the theory of creation is also taught.

Creationism, on the other hand, is a fairy tale with no absolutely no basis in science. Under what rationale would one teach it in school as a plausible alternative theory? Why not teach reincarnation and astrology, too?

Well, probably because you aren't paying attention. The *religious right* as it came into existence 20 years ago is past its prime much in the way that labor is. It can't deliver the decisive blow in big national elections. It's no longer the phenomenon that it was made out to be when Jerry Falwell and Pat Robertson were doing their thing.

Much of the evangelical community seems to have moved from the mainly political focus of the mid-80s to a more wholistic approach as the older generation is fading out and a younger generation of Christians is moving into positions of power.

And I still think that what you consider "right" from California is really more "middle."

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