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	<title>Comments on: Mike Huckabee&#8217;s Vertical Politics</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/</link>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-263493</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 03:27:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-263493</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;&lt;em&gt;Evangelical does not mean just that one is religious, to evangelize is the act of preaching or trying to convert. Trying to impose one&#039;s views&lt;/em&gt;&lt;/blockquote&gt;Whoops! Definition creep sometimes goes a lot quicker than the word &quot;creep&quot; would suggest.

&quot;Trying to convert&quot; is not the same as &quot;trying to impose.&quot; When people come to your door to talk religion with you, they&#039;re trying to convert you.

When they go around blowing you up on buses and in pizza parlors, they&#039;re trying to impose their views on you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p><em>Evangelical does not mean just that one is religious, to evangelize is the act of preaching or trying to convert. Trying to impose one's views</em></p></blockquote>
<p>Whoops! Definition creep sometimes goes a lot quicker than the word "creep" would suggest.</p>
<p>"Trying to convert" is not the same as "trying to impose." When people come to your door to talk religion with you, they're trying to convert you.</p>
<p>When they go around blowing you up on buses and in pizza parlors, they're trying to impose their views on you.</p>
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		<title>By: Drasties - Nou breekt me de klomp.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-263125</link>
		<dc:creator>Drasties - Nou breekt me de klomp.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jan 2008 06:16:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-263125</guid>
		<description>[...] more, by way of James Joyner, there&#8217;s apparently an entire &#8220;vertical politics&#8221; section on Huckabee&#8217;s [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more, by way of James Joyner, there&#8217;s apparently an entire &#8220;vertical politics&#8221; section on Huckabee&#8217;s [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Louis Nardozi</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-262473</link>
		<dc:creator>Louis Nardozi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 18:46:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-262473</guid>
		<description>Looks like the HuckaPaul is Pauling it up in New Hampshire. Guess he thinks Ron Paul plays well there. There you have the secret to the Huckster&#039;s success - he will cheerfully tell you ANYTHING you want to hear.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like the HuckaPaul is Pauling it up in New Hampshire. Guess he thinks Ron Paul plays well there. There you have the secret to the Huckster's success - he will cheerfully tell you ANYTHING you want to hear.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-262261</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jan 2008 06:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-262261</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Like hell.  Evangelical does not mean just that one is religious, to evangelize is the act of preaching or trying to convert.  Trying to impose one&#039;s views on others is the opposite of libertarianism, at least in my book</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?</p></blockquote>
<p>Like hell.  Evangelical does not mean just that one is religious, to evangelize is the act of preaching or trying to convert.  Trying to impose one's views on others is the opposite of libertarianism, at least in my book</p>
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		<title>By: BlueNight</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261986</link>
		<dc:creator>BlueNight</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 06:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261986</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s possible he&#039;s quoting Reagan:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You and I are told increasingly that we have to choose between a left or right, but I would like to suggest that there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down--up to a man&#039;s age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism, and regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Then again, Huckabee&#039;s a bit fuzzier than this, so he&#039;s probably just stumbling across the metaphor independently.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It's possible he's quoting Reagan:</p>
<blockquote><p>You and I are told increasingly that we have to choose between a left or right, but I would like to suggest that there is no such thing as a left or right. There is only an up or down--up to a man's age-old dream, the ultimate in individual freedom consistent with law and order--or down to the ant heap totalitarianism, and regardless of their sincerity, their humanitarian motives, those who would trade our freedom for security have embarked on this downward course.</p></blockquote>
<p>Then again, Huckabee's a bit fuzzier than this, so he's probably just stumbling across the metaphor independently.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261970</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jan 2008 05:04:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261970</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I think the American people are hungry for vertical politics, where we have leaders who lift us up rather than those who tear us down&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But wouldn&#039;t tearing us &lt;em&gt;down&lt;/em&gt; also be vertical?

Sigh, at least it is better than our current vertigo politics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I think the American people are hungry for vertical politics, where we have leaders who lift us up rather than those who tear us down</p></blockquote>
<p>But wouldn't tearing us <em>down</em> also be vertical?</p>
<p>Sigh, at least it is better than our current vertigo politics.</p>
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		<title>By: Plutarch</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261880</link>
		<dc:creator>Plutarch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:13:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261880</guid>
		<description>{Sigh}You secular pundits just don&#039;t &lt;em&gt;get it.&lt;/em&gt;

&lt;em&gt;Christian Leader&lt;/em&gt; Huckabee is obviously referring to that &lt;strong&gt;vertical&lt;/strong&gt; connection between &lt;strong&gt;This World&lt;/strong&gt; and &lt;strong&gt;Heaven&lt;/strong&gt;.

Think of the paintings of &lt;a href=&quot;http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Tizian_041.jpg&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;The Assumption&lt;/a&gt;.  Christ and Mary go &lt;em&gt;vertical&lt;/em&gt;,  Whoooosh!

Huckabee&#039;s politics isn&#039;t just of &lt;em&gt;this world&lt;/em&gt;, but extends &lt;em&gt;vertically &lt;/em&gt;to encompass the &lt;em&gt;next&lt;/em&gt; as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>{Sigh}You secular pundits just don't <em>get it.</em></p>
<p><em>Christian Leader</em> Huckabee is obviously referring to that <strong>vertical</strong> connection between <strong>This World</strong> and <strong>Heaven</strong>.</p>
<p>Think of the paintings of <a href="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9e/Tizian_041.jpg" rel="nofollow">The Assumption</a>.  Christ and Mary go <em>vertical</em>,  Whoooosh!</p>
<p>Huckabee's politics isn't just of <em>this world</em>, but extends <em>vertically </em>to encompass the <em>next</em> as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlaloc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261878</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlaloc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 23:09:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261878</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I don&#039;t think New Hampshire voters are living in caves, utterly unaware of how Huckabee has been campaigning in Iowa.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The vast majority of voters aren&#039;t paying any attention.  Even among primary voters, ostensibly the people paying the most attentionto politics, it is surprising how little they know.  Consider that 17% of republican voters in Iowa decided the day of the caucus who they were voting for, another 13% decided in the three days before hand, and another 10% decided in the week before hand.  That means a grand total 40% of the rep voters didn&#039;t know who they were voting for as recently as christmas.

People, by and large do not pay that much attention.  We are a small minority group of freaks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I don't think New Hampshire voters are living in caves, utterly unaware of how Huckabee has been campaigning in Iowa.</p></blockquote>
<p>The vast majority of voters aren't paying any attention.  Even among primary voters, ostensibly the people paying the most attentionto politics, it is surprising how little they know.  Consider that 17% of republican voters in Iowa decided the day of the caucus who they were voting for, another 13% decided in the three days before hand, and another 10% decided in the week before hand.  That means a grand total 40% of the rep voters didn't know who they were voting for as recently as christmas.</p>
<p>People, by and large do not pay that much attention.  We are a small minority group of freaks.</p>
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		<title>By: Swift Loris</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261871</link>
		<dc:creator>Swift Loris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:46:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261871</guid>
		<description>Seems to me the question isn&#039;t whether he&#039;s using a term that everyone can understand, but whether he&#039;s using a term that his co-religionists will understand differently. I think Josh may have nailed it by saying that the &quot;vertical&quot; notion is meant to suggest to Christians--but not to anyone else--that his politics are &quot;God&#039;s politics.&quot;

Something similar might be said of the stealth cross in his Christmas commercial. There&#039;s a sort of wink-wink/nudge-nudge quality about it. Not a dog whistle per se, more like giving the dog whistle a prominent place in the brass band.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seems to me the question isn't whether he's using a term that everyone can understand, but whether he's using a term that his co-religionists will understand differently. I think Josh may have nailed it by saying that the "vertical" notion is meant to suggest to Christians--but not to anyone else--that his politics are "God's politics."</p>
<p>Something similar might be said of the stealth cross in his Christmas commercial. There's a sort of wink-wink/nudge-nudge quality about it. Not a dog whistle per se, more like giving the dog whistle a prominent place in the brass band.</p>
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		<title>By: McGehee</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261863</link>
		<dc:creator>McGehee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 22:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261863</guid>
		<description>Jim E., I don&#039;t think New Hampshire voters are living in caves, utterly unaware of how Huckabee has been campaigning in Iowa. Maybe ten or twenty years ago it would have been possible to play that kind of game. Not so much nowadays.

I have family in Iowa -- aunts, uncles and cousins. And I&#039;ve been following politics since I learned to read. Until the last couple of weeks I had no idea Iowa was the buckle of the Bible Belt; I always thought that was, like, the South, and into Texas and Oklahoma.

Learn something new every election cycle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jim E., I don't think New Hampshire voters are living in caves, utterly unaware of how Huckabee has been campaigning in Iowa. Maybe ten or twenty years ago it would have been possible to play that kind of game. Not so much nowadays.</p>
<p>I have family in Iowa -- aunts, uncles and cousins. And I've been following politics since I learned to read. Until the last couple of weeks I had no idea Iowa was the buckle of the Bible Belt; I always thought that was, like, the South, and into Texas and Oklahoma.</p>
<p>Learn something new every election cycle.</p>
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		<title>By: Jim E.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261815</link>
		<dc:creator>Jim E.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 19:06:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261815</guid>
		<description>This is a quote from the main post: &quot;Huckabee is a candidate who put the phrase &#039;CHRISTIAN LEADER&#039; in capital letters in his campaign ad as he talks about how his faith &#039;defines me.&#039; It does not seem as though Huckabee is trying to reach fundamentalist Christians under the radar with dog whistles or subliminal crosses.&quot;

In New Hampshire, there is a pro-Huckabee leaflet that touts him as a &quot;leader.&quot;  In Iowa, there was an identical pro-Huckabee pamphlet, except that it described him as a &quot;Christian leader.&quot;  My guess is that Huckabee is going to drop the Christian stuff in non-evangelical states and therefore will resort to dog-whistle references in those areas. He wants the evangelical vote, but doesn&#039;t want to turn off non-evangelicals in the process -- a concern that didn&#039;t exist for him in Iowa.  

Therefore, I do not think the mocking of Josh Marshall and his fancy degree is warranted.  How many Americans do you think could have interpreted the screen shot quote on Huckabee&#039;s website?  If you need a two paragraph explanation from a TV transcript to explain the context of &quot;vertical,&quot; chances are Huckabee might be trying to communicate to only a particular subset of voters with the phrase as used on his website.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is a quote from the main post: "Huckabee is a candidate who put the phrase 'CHRISTIAN LEADER' in capital letters in his campaign ad as he talks about how his faith 'defines me.' It does not seem as though Huckabee is trying to reach fundamentalist Christians under the radar with dog whistles or subliminal crosses."</p>
<p>In New Hampshire, there is a pro-Huckabee leaflet that touts him as a "leader."  In Iowa, there was an identical pro-Huckabee pamphlet, except that it described him as a "Christian leader."  My guess is that Huckabee is going to drop the Christian stuff in non-evangelical states and therefore will resort to dog-whistle references in those areas. He wants the evangelical vote, but doesn't want to turn off non-evangelicals in the process -- a concern that didn't exist for him in Iowa.  </p>
<p>Therefore, I do not think the mocking of Josh Marshall and his fancy degree is warranted.  How many Americans do you think could have interpreted the screen shot quote on Huckabee's website?  If you need a two paragraph explanation from a TV transcript to explain the context of "vertical," chances are Huckabee might be trying to communicate to only a particular subset of voters with the phrase as used on his website.</p>
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		<title>By: Tlaloc</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261812</link>
		<dc:creator>Tlaloc</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 18:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261812</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Have you kept abreast of anything the GOP has done in the last 7 years?

For some reason the name &quot;Schiavo&quot; just lept to mind...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?</p></blockquote>
<p>Have you kept abreast of anything the GOP has done in the last 7 years?</p>
<p>For some reason the name "Schiavo" just lept to mind...</p>
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		<title>By: Huckabee talks vertical &#124; moonbatwingnut.com</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261800</link>
		<dc:creator>Huckabee talks vertical &#124; moonbatwingnut.com</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:37:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261800</guid>
		<description>[...] Marshall sees sinister plot underlying Huckabee codespeak to his fanatic minions. James Joyner says aw pshaww, he&#8217;s just preachin&#8217; to the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Marshall sees sinister plot underlying Huckabee codespeak to his fanatic minions. James Joyner says aw pshaww, he&#8217;s just preachin&#8217; to the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Political Animal</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261798</link>
		<dc:creator>Political Animal</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 17:32:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261798</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Vertical...&lt;/strong&gt;

VERTICAL....Apparently the latest hot word to convince evangelicals that you&#039;re one of them is &quot;vertical.&quot; Who knew? It&#039;s like trying to keep up with the latest from the hip hop world. In other trendy word news, the American Dialect Society......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Vertical...</strong></p>
<p>VERTICAL....Apparently the latest hot word to convince evangelicals that you're one of them is "vertical." Who knew? It's like trying to keep up with the latest from the hip hop world. In other trendy word news, the American Dialect Society......</p>
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		<title>By: floyd</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/huckabees_vertical_politics/comment-page-1/#comment-261789</link>
		<dc:creator>floyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jan 2008 16:52:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/01/huckabees_vertical_politics/#comment-261789</guid>
		<description>MW;
   Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>MW;<br />
   Evangelicals and libertarians are a natural coalition in spite of the lame arguments made to the contrary. What could be more useless to either than more government intrusion?</p>
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