Comments on: If this is the crisis everyone makes it out to be…

By: Dave Schuler

Dave Schuler — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 13:02:22 +0000

(jail the game players -fire the complicite)

DL, could you expand on this a bit? I'm not aware that it's being claimed that those who caused this were engaged in illegal activity. Are you suggesting that the criminal code should be expanded to cover all injuries, even when people are engaging in legal activities? We do have a civil code.

By: DL

DL — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:22:02 +0000

The first rule, if they want the public to support it, is to set up some kind of public oversight and and investigative arm (witrh supeana power)totally separate from Congress and the people who caused the problem and are pretending to fix it.
(jail the game players -fire the complicite)

Until this happens, the core caused won't be changed at all. This bill is like giving your gambling brother in law $5000 because he didn't pay the bad guys the loan payment. He'll only need more later. Until he is cut off and suffers the cost of his actions it will continue, even bolder.

By: anjin-san

anjin-san — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:32:36 +0000

Yea, that meanie Nancy Pelosi and her mind control rays...

Guess the general level of whining will just get louder as the numbers get worse and worse for McCain.

By: charles austin

charles austin — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 02:26:04 +0000

I am not a fan of the bailout but very reluctantly accept it. Unfortunately it appears to be just another crass attempt to score political points now. This is a very dangerous game they are playing.

By: Brett

Brett — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:51:59 +0000

The Great Depression involved a great deal of stupidity in the government on multiple levels, plus a natural disaster (the Great Dust Bowl). How much of that, though, was Hoover's fault as opposed to FDR's? Smoot-Hawley happened in 1930, and I thought FDR severely weakened the Gold Standard until the Bretton Woods agreement in 1944.

By: markm

markm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:49:48 +0000

"If this situation is so bad (the Dow Tanking 700 points! OMFG!). How come they are playing partisan games? Could it…maybe not be as bad as they are telling us?"

Could be...OR...I think someone noted it on OTB in another thread, there were something like seven attempts at reforming Freddie/Fannie and the like since 2001 or 2003 and every time it was slapped down. I've seen umpteen vids on blogs lately of B. Frank & Co. saying there is no problem nor crisis (back then). The OR part is kinda scarin' me.

By: markm

markm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:36:05 +0000

"She's both horrifically dumb"

I'll second that.

By: markm

markm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:30:56 +0000

And if it's that having the market in the tank until after the election being to their benefit...that would be a hard sell. I can see the tactic on paper but the real potential fallout isn't worth it IMO.

By: sam

sam — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:30:35 +0000

Why "bastards" Charles? Do you think the bill was a good bill -- and therefore, for crass political ends, the Dems caused the defeat of this good bill?

By: Rick Almeida

Rick Almeida — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:28:44 +0000

Then Pelosi shouldn't have brought the bill forward for a vote, if she didn't have the votes for it-period.

Right, since the President hadn't been stumping for it every day for a week, and because the leadership of both parties hadn't worked out a deal that they thought they could pass. Nah, all Pelosi's fault. She's both horrifically dumb _and_ has more power than the rest of the government and 10 wolverines combined.

By: markm

markm — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:22:35 +0000

"I think it came to a vote because the cynic in my thinks Pelosi wanted it to fail." I've read that on some other poli blogs but none with sufficient explanation of why...what is the benefit for losing this vote and having the markets tank???...is it some kind of "hero" thing where they'll swoop in and save us when there is a proper crisis?.

By: just me

just me — Tue, 30 Sep 2008 00:02:53 +0000

markm my guess is that in the spirit of bipartisanship pelosi assumed the GOP votes were there, but didn't take the time to ask.

I also wonder how many in the GOP were up front not going to vote in favor before the vote was called-the whole "Pelosi was mean to us" whine after the fact doesn't convince me that all those GOP congress members bolted because of that-my feeling is that most of them were never there in the first place.

I think it came to a vote because the cynic in my thinks Pelosi wanted it to fail.

By: markm

markm — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:51:31 +0000

Why did it even come to a vote if the votes were not there?????. Seriously. And don't bother with the Pelosi partisan speech crap. The votes were NEVER there. The dem majority couldn't do it on their own as they had a bunch voting nay...they had to know that going in.

By: just me

just me — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:48:24 +0000

Oh and I will admit I am one of those people who isn't 100% positive this bill is a good idea, and isn't convinced it is a good bill or that it is going to do what they want it to do. There is a huge part of me that thinks in the short run it will hurt but in the long run it may be better to let these companies fail and deal with the down side of taking risks.

The behavior of the congress-both parties is making me wonder if it is the crisis they say it is.

By: just me

just me — Mon, 29 Sep 2008 23:46:11 +0000

Big unpopular bills with big risks always always always take bipartisan support to pass.

Then Pelosi shouldn't have brought the bill forward for a vote, if she didn't have the votes for it-period.

Perhaps actually trying to be bipartisan would have helped, if they wanted bipartisan support.

I think the reality here too is that there wasn't voter support for this bill-and congress members at this point were also listening to their constituents-rightly or wrongly.

I would also note that the GOP house members have all been voicing discomfort with the bail out-Pelosi should have been aware that she wasn't going to get tons of GOP support on it-the house members were balking. She also apparently didn't count heads in her own party.

The GOP will get the blame, but the leadership here-and that would be Pelosi stunk-she failed on every measure.