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	<title>Comments on: Iraq:  Another Meme Beats the Dust</title>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-35070</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2005 12:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-35070</guid>
		<description>No defense of Steyn whatsoever, just shedding light on the &quot;widespread&quot; assumptions of the left.

1. WMDs have been found.  Ten tons of it would have to be shoved up some individual&#039;s posterior for them to believe it.

2. What is your rationale for rating the governments of the Middle East?  Stability? Freedom?  The argument can be made that liberty is the single most important factor.  Strangely enough, the LEFT doesn&#039;t understand this.

3. Apples and Oranges comparisons.  Another trademark of the hysterical left.  There was just a war in Iraq.  Things are getting better.  They will be even better. The difficulties in Iraq are not unprecedented in history.  Even with the difficulty, great, unprecedented successes have been accomplished by our troops.  Something to be proud of.

4. The &quot;resistance&quot; is not widespread.  The data and comments by officials regarding the number of insurgents is cherry picked to appear larger than life.  The number of Iraqi police and military is similarly reduced in number.  If you have been paying attention, there are many recent reports of the insurgency weakening.  The lack of attacks during the elections is only the latest evidence. I don&#039;t think looking at the history of the last two years says anything about the state of the insurgency today.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No defense of Steyn whatsoever, just shedding light on the "widespread" assumptions of the left.</p>
<p>1. WMDs have been found.  Ten tons of it would have to be shoved up some individual's posterior for them to believe it.</p>
<p>2. What is your rationale for rating the governments of the Middle East?  Stability? Freedom?  The argument can be made that liberty is the single most important factor.  Strangely enough, the LEFT doesn't understand this.</p>
<p>3. Apples and Oranges comparisons.  Another trademark of the hysterical left.  There was just a war in Iraq.  Things are getting better.  They will be even better. The difficulties in Iraq are not unprecedented in history.  Even with the difficulty, great, unprecedented successes have been accomplished by our troops.  Something to be proud of.</p>
<p>4. The "resistance" is not widespread.  The data and comments by officials regarding the number of insurgents is cherry picked to appear larger than life.  The number of Iraqi police and military is similarly reduced in number.  If you have been paying attention, there are many recent reports of the insurgency weakening.  The lack of attacks during the elections is only the latest evidence. I don't think looking at the history of the last two years says anything about the state of the insurgency today.</p>
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		<title>By: anjin-san</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-35068</link>
		<dc:creator>anjin-san</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Feb 2005 07:13:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-35068</guid>
		<description>Jack,

Totalitarians?  You mean Bush&#039;s buddies the Saudi&#039;s? Or Egypt? Or China? Or...................</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jack,</p>
<p>Totalitarians?  You mean Bush's buddies the Saudi's? Or Egypt? Or China? Or...................</p>
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		<title>By: Jack Tanner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-35011</link>
		<dc:creator>Jack Tanner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 20:19:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-35011</guid>
		<description>One similarity between Vietnam and Iraq is again the left is siding with the totalitarian mass murderers. What&#039;s with those guys?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One similarity between Vietnam and Iraq is again the left is siding with the totalitarian mass murderers. What's with those guys?</p>
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		<title>By: JakeV</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-35000</link>
		<dc:creator>JakeV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 19:00:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-35000</guid>
		<description>Ok:

1. By &quot;horrible things&quot;, Steyn meant WMDs. He made that comment to mock the claim that no WMDs would be found.  And what else would the French supposedly have the receipts for?  Do you think that WMDs were found, for which the French have the receipts?  If not, then Steyn blew the prediction.

2.  Steyn said Iraq would be the &quot;least badly governed country, at a bare minimum&quot; in one year after his prediction was written.  One year after his prediction was last spring.  It was Steyn&#039;s choice to put the 1 year limit on.  Would you  call that a remotely accurate prediction?  


3.  I&#039;m not sure what the raw number of people killed in the US has to do with the crime rate in Basra vs. the crime rate in London. While I don&#039;[t have crime rate information about Basra (does it even exist?) I&#039;d be very surprised if London were more dangerous than Basra.    

4.  As far as widespread resentment and resistance goes, &quot;widespread&quot; is a nice vague term, but I think you&#039;d have to interpret it awfully narrowly to say that 1400 coalition deaths and thousands more wounded, an insurgency which supposedly still numbers in the tens of thousands, and violent uprisings among both Shi&#039;ites and Sunnis, would not count as widespread resistance.  I won&#039;t even get into resentment.  

I&#039;m not going to try to defend the stupid Vietnam analogy-- and likewise I don&#039;t think you should try to defend a lamer like Steyn.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ok:</p>
<p>1. By "horrible things", Steyn meant WMDs. He made that comment to mock the claim that no WMDs would be found.  And what else would the French supposedly have the receipts for?  Do you think that WMDs were found, for which the French have the receipts?  If not, then Steyn blew the prediction.</p>
<p>2.  Steyn said Iraq would be the "least badly governed country, at a bare minimum" in one year after his prediction was written.  One year after his prediction was last spring.  It was Steyn's choice to put the 1 year limit on.  Would you  call that a remotely accurate prediction?  </p>
<p>3.  I'm not sure what the raw number of people killed in the US has to do with the crime rate in Basra vs. the crime rate in London. While I don'[t have crime rate information about Basra (does it even exist?) I'd be very surprised if London were more dangerous than Basra.    </p>
<p>4.  As far as widespread resentment and resistance goes, "widespread" is a nice vague term, but I think you'd have to interpret it awfully narrowly to say that 1400 coalition deaths and thousands more wounded, an insurgency which supposedly still numbers in the tens of thousands, and violent uprisings among both Shi'ites and Sunnis, would not count as widespread resistance.  I won't even get into resentment.  </p>
<p>I'm not going to try to defend the stupid Vietnam analogy-- and likewise I don't think you should try to defend a lamer like Steyn.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-34993</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:52:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-34993</guid>
		<description>&quot;How lame do you have to be...&quot;  The Viet Nam analogy is worn out.  You must learn from history, not dwell on it.

IS there &quot;widespread resentment and resistance&quot;? 

Have NOT &quot;horrible things&quot; turned up?

Don&#039;t know much about the crime rate in London.  I do know THOUSANDS have been murdered in the U.S.

Iraq is NOT &quot;the least badly governed state in the Arab world&quot;?  What about when their constitution is written?  What about when they conduct their own open elections?

There is a deafening silence on the left following the successful Iraqi elections (and the lack of widespread attacks).  I guess they&#039;re busy concocting the next doomsday prediction that will never come to pass.  Should be interesting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"How lame do you have to be..."  The Viet Nam analogy is worn out.  You must learn from history, not dwell on it.</p>
<p>IS there "widespread resentment and resistance"? </p>
<p>Have NOT "horrible things" turned up?</p>
<p>Don't know much about the crime rate in London.  I do know THOUSANDS have been murdered in the U.S.</p>
<p>Iraq is NOT "the least badly governed state in the Arab world"?  What about when their constitution is written?  What about when they conduct their own open elections?</p>
<p>There is a deafening silence on the left following the successful Iraqi elections (and the lack of widespread attacks).  I guess they're busy concocting the next doomsday prediction that will never come to pass.  Should be interesting.</p>
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		<title>By: hubs and spokes</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-34989</link>
		<dc:creator>hubs and spokes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 17:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-34989</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Fun with Media Myth Shattering!&lt;/strong&gt;
 Mark Steyn: AND so the &#8220;looming Iraqi election fiasco&#8221; joins &#8220;the brutal Afghan winter&#8221; and &#8220;the brutal Iraqi summer&#8221; and &#8220;the seething Arab street&#8221; and all the other junk in the overflowing trash can of...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Fun with Media Myth Shattering!</strong><br />
 Mark Steyn: AND so the &#8220;looming Iraqi election fiasco&#8221; joins &#8220;the brutal Afghan winter&#8221; and &#8220;the brutal Iraqi summer&#8221; and &#8220;the seething Arab street&#8221; and all the other junk in the overflowing trash can of...</p>
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		<title>By: JakeV</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_another_meme_beats_the_dust/comment-page-1/#comment-34987</link>
		<dc:creator>JakeV</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 01 Feb 2005 16:44:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">/?p=9060#comment-34987</guid>
		<description>The Vietnam analogy is indeed totally inappropriate. 

But it&#039;s remarkable to see Mark Steyn criticizing others&#039; predictions on Iraq, given his own predictions, made shortly after the invasion: 


Here&#039;s one:
&quot;There will be terrible acts of suicide-bomber depravity in the months ahead, but no widespread resentment at or resistance of the Western military presence.&quot;


On WMD:
&quot;Horrible things will turn up, but will never be &#039;conclusive&#039; enough for the French, who&#039;ve got all the receipts anyway.&quot;  


On crime:
&quot;A year from now, Basra will have a lower crime rate than most London boroughs.&quot;

On the overall state of things:

&quot;In a year&#039;s time, Iraq will be, at a bare minimum, the least badly governed state in the Arab world and, at best, pleasant, civilised and thriving. In short: not a bad three weeks&#039; work.&quot;

If I had written these predictions, I&#039;d probably be more hesitant to mock the predictions of others.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Vietnam analogy is indeed totally inappropriate. </p>
<p>But it's remarkable to see Mark Steyn criticizing others' predictions on Iraq, given his own predictions, made shortly after the invasion: </p>
<p>Here's one:<br />
"There will be terrible acts of suicide-bomber depravity in the months ahead, but no widespread resentment at or resistance of the Western military presence."</p>
<p>On WMD:<br />
"Horrible things will turn up, but will never be 'conclusive' enough for the French, who've got all the receipts anyway."  </p>
<p>On crime:<br />
"A year from now, Basra will have a lower crime rate than most London boroughs."</p>
<p>On the overall state of things:</p>
<p>"In a year's time, Iraq will be, at a bare minimum, the least badly governed state in the Arab world and, at best, pleasant, civilised and thriving. In short: not a bad three weeks' work."</p>
<p>If I had written these predictions, I'd probably be more hesitant to mock the predictions of others.</p>
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