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	<title>Comments on: Iraq Foreign Fighters Mostly Saudis and Libyans</title>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-237142</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 23:08:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Bush didn&#039;t have to say anything. It was quite clear what Americans thought about that verdict. In fact, it was quite clear what the civilized world thought about it. Including many Saudis.

You might check out the Saudi papers for their commentary.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bush didn't have to say anything. It was quite clear what Americans thought about that verdict. In fact, it was quite clear what the civilized world thought about it. Including many Saudis.</p>
<p>You might check out the Saudi papers for their commentary.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-237091</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 21:42:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The plot certainly succeeded in that regard.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Yeah, we sure stuck it to the Saudis, didn&#039;t we? Why, just recently, our President has almost but not quite had the balls to say something about the woman getting her jail sentence doubled for getting gang-raped.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The plot certainly succeeded in that regard.</p></blockquote>
<p>Yeah, we sure stuck it to the Saudis, didn't we? Why, just recently, our President has almost but not quite had the balls to say something about the woman getting her jail sentence doubled for getting gang-raped.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-237029</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 17:57:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Dave: I doubt that a physical attack on the KSA was intended. Rather, it would drive a wedge between the KSA and the USA. The plot certainly succeeded in that regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dave: I doubt that a physical attack on the KSA was intended. Rather, it would drive a wedge between the KSA and the USA. The plot certainly succeeded in that regard.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-237006</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>John, I&#039;ve always thought that Saudis were recruited deliberately for another reason, too:  in an attempt to provoke an attack against the KSA by the US.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>John, I've always thought that Saudis were recruited deliberately for another reason, too:  in an attempt to provoke an attack against the KSA by the US.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236999</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 16:00:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/#comment-236999</guid>
		<description>M1EK: It also might be useful to note that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed said that he recruited Saudis because they could get US visas easily and that they didn&#039;t even know what they were signing up for.

I know that doesn&#039;t fit the narrative, but it does fit the facts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>M1EK: It also might be useful to note that Khaled Sheikh Mohammed said that he recruited Saudis because they could get US visas easily and that they didn't even know what they were signing up for.</p>
<p>I know that doesn't fit the narrative, but it does fit the facts.</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236998</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 15:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/#comment-236998</guid>
		<description>davod: this is due at least in part to incomplete reporting. The UK&#039;s &lt;em&gt;Guardian&lt;/em&gt; reports that there are 25,000 militants in US custody in Iraq. 

Of that number, 305 are Saudi, 137 are Libyan, 68 Yemeni nationals, the third-biggest source. There were 64 fighters from Algeria, 50 from Morocco, 38 from Tunisia, 14 from Jordan, six from Turkey and two each from Egypt and France. That adds up to 682 foreign fighters. Subtract that from the 25K figure for militants in detention, and it certainly looks like the vast majority are indigenes.

More at &lt;a href=&quot;http://xrdarabia.org/2007/11/23/saudis-in-iraq-numbers-decreasing/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Saudis in Iraq: Numbers Decreasing&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>davod: this is due at least in part to incomplete reporting. The UK's <em>Guardian</em> reports that there are 25,000 militants in US custody in Iraq. </p>
<p>Of that number, 305 are Saudi, 137 are Libyan, 68 Yemeni nationals, the third-biggest source. There were 64 fighters from Algeria, 50 from Morocco, 38 from Tunisia, 14 from Jordan, six from Turkey and two each from Egypt and France. That adds up to 682 foreign fighters. Subtract that from the 25K figure for militants in detention, and it certainly looks like the vast majority are indigenes.</p>
<p>More at <a href="http://xrdarabia.org/2007/11/23/saudis-in-iraq-numbers-decreasing/" rel="nofollow">Saudis in Iraq: Numbers Decreasing</a></p>
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		<title>By: spencer</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236986</link>
		<dc:creator>spencer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:49:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>while my biases are such that I would be more than willing to accept these results I would also like to point out that these results are likely to underestimate the flow of Iranian fighters.
The data was found in western Iran and probably does a very good job of identifying the nationality of  foreign fighters that enter Iraq through Syria. But Iranian fighters are unlikely to enter through Syria. Rather they are more likely to cross their common border. Consequently, this study is probably biased if Iranian fighters are a significant part of the problem.  On the other hand there is little evidence from other sources that Iranian fighters are a significant problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>while my biases are such that I would be more than willing to accept these results I would also like to point out that these results are likely to underestimate the flow of Iranian fighters.<br />
The data was found in western Iran and probably does a very good job of identifying the nationality of  foreign fighters that enter Iraq through Syria. But Iranian fighters are unlikely to enter through Syria. Rather they are more likely to cross their common border. Consequently, this study is probably biased if Iranian fighters are a significant part of the problem.  On the other hand there is little evidence from other sources that Iranian fighters are a significant problem.</p>
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		<title>By: M1EK</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236972</link>
		<dc:creator>M1EK</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 14:06:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Stories like this ought to be required to mention that nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, too. And yet somehow we thought Iraq was a greater threat. Gee, thanks, neocons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stories like this ought to be required to mention that nearly all of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi, too. And yet somehow we thought Iraq was a greater threat. Gee, thanks, neocons.</p>
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		<title>By: davod</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236957</link>
		<dc:creator>davod</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 13:19:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>How do you establish that the insurgency is almost entirely domestic from the information provided?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>How do you establish that the insurgency is almost entirely domestic from the information provided?</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236789</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 04:36:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I guess the Saudi media is watching Outside the Beltway. Tomorrow&#039;s edition carries a story on the very topic. I&#039;ve blogged it: &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.xrdarabia.org/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Saudi Ex-Jihadi Tells His Tale&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the Saudi media is watching Outside the Beltway. Tomorrow's edition carries a story on the very topic. I've blogged it: <a href="http://www.xrdarabia.org/" rel="nofollow">Saudi Ex-Jihadi Tells His Tale</a></p>
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		<title>By: matt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236685</link>
		<dc:creator>matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Nov 2007 01:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Well if this doesn&#039;t screw up plans for Iran I don&#039;t know what will. I do not know if this is news to people here, but as long as we are in Iraq we will be a magnet for radical fundamentalists, thus them flooding Iraq to kill American&#039;s. But hey fight em there so we don&#039;t have to here right?  Morons.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.hyerstandard.com&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well if this doesn't screw up plans for Iran I don't know what will. I do not know if this is news to people here, but as long as we are in Iraq we will be a magnet for radical fundamentalists, thus them flooding Iraq to kill American's. But hey fight em there so we don't have to here right?  Morons.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.hyerstandard.com" rel="nofollow"></a></p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236524</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 22:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/#comment-236524</guid>
		<description>Saudi Arabia is screwed up, no question. How to get out of a mess they created is another question.

Make-work projects won&#039;t work because young Saudis feel there are enormous job sectors beneath them. Dig a ditch? Forget it. They expect to be &#039;managers&#039; getting paid for doing little or no work.

They already received an education that suits them for little. I suppose forcing all young men back into school for another 3-5 years to &#039;un-teach&#039; them might do something. I&#039;m not sure what, though. Public statements by senior clerics, by senior gov&#039;t officials are all condemning both terrorism and foreign jihad. The bell needs a lot of unringing.

The economy is the economy. The new-found oil wealth is being spread around in infrastructure projects, but as noted above, the ones who will benefit most from the construction aren&#039;t going to be young Saudis. They&#039;ll be more immigrant labor.

The government gave its employees a 15% raise last year, the first in nearly 20 years. But the government is getting smaller as the country denationalizes most of its industries. The father&#039;s of today&#039;s young men were all but guaranteed gov&#039;t jobs. That&#039;s just not feasible today. Besides, haven&#039;t we been learning that it&#039;s not economic despair that creates jihadis?

Further crackdowns on the imams is always good. Even though thousands have been jailed, with most going through &#039;re-education&#039;, some of them clearly aren&#039;t getting the message. Maybe withholding their $500/mo. government stipends would have a salutary effect. 

Since the destruction of the &#039;Afghan Arab&#039; armies in Afghanistan, I don&#039;t know which individual has his own standing army.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Saudi Arabia is screwed up, no question. How to get out of a mess they created is another question.</p>
<p>Make-work projects won't work because young Saudis feel there are enormous job sectors beneath them. Dig a ditch? Forget it. They expect to be 'managers' getting paid for doing little or no work.</p>
<p>They already received an education that suits them for little. I suppose forcing all young men back into school for another 3-5 years to 'un-teach' them might do something. I'm not sure what, though. Public statements by senior clerics, by senior gov't officials are all condemning both terrorism and foreign jihad. The bell needs a lot of unringing.</p>
<p>The economy is the economy. The new-found oil wealth is being spread around in infrastructure projects, but as noted above, the ones who will benefit most from the construction aren't going to be young Saudis. They'll be more immigrant labor.</p>
<p>The government gave its employees a 15% raise last year, the first in nearly 20 years. But the government is getting smaller as the country denationalizes most of its industries. The father's of today's young men were all but guaranteed gov't jobs. That's just not feasible today. Besides, haven't we been learning that it's not economic despair that creates jihadis?</p>
<p>Further crackdowns on the imams is always good. Even though thousands have been jailed, with most going through 're-education', some of them clearly aren't getting the message. Maybe withholding their $500/mo. government stipends would have a salutary effect. </p>
<p>Since the destruction of the 'Afghan Arab' armies in Afghanistan, I don't know which individual has his own standing army.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236453</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 21:02:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Let me put it another way.  If and when billionaires in the U. S. start raising private armies to go overseas and raise hell, I&#039;ll think that the U. S. government is justified in taking steps to reduce that if not eliminate it entirely.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let me put it another way.  If and when billionaires in the U. S. start raising private armies to go overseas and raise hell, I'll think that the U. S. government is justified in taking steps to reduce that if not eliminate it entirely.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236451</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 20:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/11/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/#comment-236451</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
I&#039;d just note that absent a total ban on Saudi males&#039; leaving the country, there&#039;s not a whole lot the Saudi government can do to stop would-be jihadis from leaving the country.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
That&#039;s true as far as it goes, John, but I think it needs to be taken a little farther.

If you build a warehouse, fill it full of dynamite, dig a moat around it, fill it full of gasoline, and then, when somebody points out that it&#039;s a safety hazard you might reasonably answer &#147;Well, what are we supposed to do, ban sparks,  flames, lightning and anything else that might conceivably set it off?&#148;

The KSA has a large pool of young men, many of whom are unemployed, an economy that continues to be highly dependent (and centralized) on the oil sector, who have been taught intolerance of non-Muslims and non-Wahhabi Muslims in the schools and by imams some of whom receive government stipends for their work.  The population growth, the economy, the schools, and the imams are all at least influenced by the Saudi government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
I'd just note that absent a total ban on Saudi males' leaving the country, there's not a whole lot the Saudi government can do to stop would-be jihadis from leaving the country.
</p></blockquote>
<p>That's true as far as it goes, John, but I think it needs to be taken a little farther.</p>
<p>If you build a warehouse, fill it full of dynamite, dig a moat around it, fill it full of gasoline, and then, when somebody points out that it's a safety hazard you might reasonably answer &#8220;Well, what are we supposed to do, ban sparks,  flames, lightning and anything else that might conceivably set it off?&#8221;</p>
<p>The KSA has a large pool of young men, many of whom are unemployed, an economy that continues to be highly dependent (and centralized) on the oil sector, who have been taught intolerance of non-Muslims and non-Wahhabi Muslims in the schools and by imams some of whom receive government stipends for their work.  The population growth, the economy, the schools, and the imams are all at least influenced by the Saudi government.</p>
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		<title>By: M. Murcek</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_foreign_fighters_mostly_saudis_and_libyans/comment-page-1/#comment-236334</link>
		<dc:creator>M. Murcek</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Nov 2007 14:46:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Our own media and democrat politicians frequently tell us &quot;a majority&quot; of Americans want us to pursue a course in Iraq that would reasonably be regarded as surrender.  If so many Americans are fine with losing, why should we be surprised other &quot;allies&quot; have citizens who want to help us do just that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Our own media and democrat politicians frequently tell us "a majority" of Americans want us to pursue a course in Iraq that would reasonably be regarded as surrender.  If so many Americans are fine with losing, why should we be surprised other "allies" have citizens who want to help us do just that?</p>
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