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	<title>Comments on: Iraq Puts Civilian Toll at 12,000</title>
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	<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/</link>
	<description>Online Journal of Politics and Foreign Affairs</description>
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		<title>By: Geneva Convention Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-48114</link>
		<dc:creator>Geneva Convention Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 07 Jun 2005 20:25:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-48114</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I donât believe Americans have never comiitted war crimes. I do beleive that we have prosecuted those acts in the media and in court, unlike our enemies.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
_________

In as much as I can appreciate your other comments, I&#039;ll leave them be as we both know this can turn into a long debate. However, the above quoted comment by you is seriously out of whack.

For someone to make such a statement proves outright they have not read or are not familiar with the Geneva Conventions nor the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

Americans _are_ guilty in many, many instances. To claim innocence entails the ignorant refusal to be held accountable to international law. Just because someone is &#039;American&#039; doesn&#039;t make them innocent. How very naive of you. You may wish to go on at length about this, but let me quell both our troubles by asking kindly for you to read - in full - the Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That said, I would &#039;win&#039; (as it were) any argument you choose to propogate in favor of American innocence.

Do take care.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I donât believe Americans have never comiitted war crimes. I do beleive that we have prosecuted those acts in the media and in court, unlike our enemies.</p></blockquote>
<p>_________</p>
<p>In as much as I can appreciate your other comments, I'll leave them be as we both know this can turn into a long debate. However, the above quoted comment by you is seriously out of whack.</p>
<p>For someone to make such a statement proves outright they have not read or are not familiar with the Geneva Conventions nor the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.</p>
<p>Americans _are_ guilty in many, many instances. To claim innocence entails the ignorant refusal to be held accountable to international law. Just because someone is 'American' doesn't make them innocent. How very naive of you. You may wish to go on at length about this, but let me quell both our troubles by asking kindly for you to read - in full - the Geneva Conventions and the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. That said, I would 'win' (as it were) any argument you choose to propogate in favor of American innocence.</p>
<p>Do take care.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47956</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:00:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47956</guid>
		<description>Die by the word indeed.  Just ask Howard Dean.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Die by the word indeed.  Just ask Howard Dean.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47955</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 06 Jun 2005 12:00:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47955</guid>
		<description>The actions of the Germans and Japanese justified the use of force.  Period. 

Intentional targeting of civilians is what the terrorists do.  In New York, Baghdad and elsewhere; time after time.  

Bombing Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki was done to end a world war where the fate of humanity was at stake.  

Many military and history experts have confirmed that unleashing nuclear weapons in WWII saved countless American AND Japanese lives.  

This &quot;sputtering&quot; goes unheard beneath the inflammatory leftward rhetoric of &quot;suffering old women and babies&quot;.  Come on.  What a bunch of crap. 

I don&#039;t believe Americans have never comiitted war crimes.  I do beleive that we have prosecuted those acts in the media and in court, unlike our enemies. 

Peace and pacifism are great, as long as your neighboring country doesn&#039;t run concentration camps, ethnic cleansing campaigns, genocide, etc..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The actions of the Germans and Japanese justified the use of force.  Period. </p>
<p>Intentional targeting of civilians is what the terrorists do.  In New York, Baghdad and elsewhere; time after time.  </p>
<p>Bombing Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki was done to end a world war where the fate of humanity was at stake.  </p>
<p>Many military and history experts have confirmed that unleashing nuclear weapons in WWII saved countless American AND Japanese lives.  </p>
<p>This "sputtering" goes unheard beneath the inflammatory leftward rhetoric of "suffering old women and babies".  Come on.  What a bunch of crap. </p>
<p>I don't believe Americans have never comiitted war crimes.  I do beleive that we have prosecuted those acts in the media and in court, unlike our enemies. </p>
<p>Peace and pacifism are great, as long as your neighboring country doesn't run concentration camps, ethnic cleansing campaigns, genocide, etc..</p>
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		<title>By: Geneva Convention Supporter</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47902</link>
		<dc:creator>Geneva Convention Supporter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Jun 2005 19:39:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47902</guid>
		<description>&quot;How [do] the actions of the âTerroristsâ in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?&quot;
____________

As another here has already pointed out, it does compare. And if I may kindly shed some light on your apparently confused sentiment (quoted above), there was absolutely no need to drop a bomb of that yield on civilians. The same result of &#039;saving of lives&#039; would have come about if it was a military target, or better still, a target that simply displayed the show of force such a devastating weapon expounds. After all, the dropping of those bombs was a show of force &lt;em&gt;period&lt;/em&gt;, so the choice to kill 100&#039;s of 1000&#039;s in the blink of an eye is very much terroristic, not to mention inhuman and acutely disgusting. 

That being said, I take no comfort in any type of terrorism, whether it be an insurgent blinded by religion or the governmental institution of any given country. When we as a civilization choose amnesty, war conventions, and declarations of human rights to back our judgement of others they become lost to history when no one - no nation - lives by the rules set forth by those who believe in peace. 

And with the earlier comment of &#039;live by the sword - die by the sword&#039;, there are some of us who need to live by the word and die by the word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"How [do] the actions of the âTerroristsâ in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?"<br />
____________</p>
<p>As another here has already pointed out, it does compare. And if I may kindly shed some light on your apparently confused sentiment (quoted above), there was absolutely no need to drop a bomb of that yield on civilians. The same result of 'saving of lives' would have come about if it was a military target, or better still, a target that simply displayed the show of force such a devastating weapon expounds. After all, the dropping of those bombs was a show of force <em>period</em>, so the choice to kill 100's of 1000's in the blink of an eye is very much terroristic, not to mention inhuman and acutely disgusting. </p>
<p>That being said, I take no comfort in any type of terrorism, whether it be an insurgent blinded by religion or the governmental institution of any given country. When we as a civilization choose amnesty, war conventions, and declarations of human rights to back our judgement of others they become lost to history when no one - no nation - lives by the rules set forth by those who believe in peace. </p>
<p>And with the earlier comment of 'live by the sword - die by the sword', there are some of us who need to live by the word and die by the word.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47858</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Jun 2005 19:36:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47858</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;How does the actions of the Germans and Japanese in WWII in any way compare to the U.S. liberating Iraq?&lt;/i&gt;

Very mysterious.  The reference is to the actions of the U.S. and UK, not to those of the Germans and Japanese.

&lt;i&gt;How does the actions of the âTerroristsâ in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?&lt;/i&gt;

Let&#039;s see:  &quot;intentional targeting of civilians.&quot;  THAT&#039;S how they compare.  (How many lives do the terrorists imagine they saved &quot;in the long run&quot; by committing the 9/11 attacks?  Doubtless they have some back-of-the-envelope calculations they could show us.)

&quot;Saving countless lives in the long run.&quot;  So incinerating women and children and babies is okay, if you can save American lives by doing so?

There have been leaders who openly espoused similar beliefs, but I didn&#039;t think that America did so, not openly.

Part of our problem with the current war is that &lt;i&gt;American don&#039;t believe they&#039;ve ever really committed war crimes.&lt;/i&gt;  We&#039;re the only nation on earth to be completely innocent.  What a coincidence.

If we could admit, &quot;yes, it was wrong to murder thousands of civilians,&quot; then we could take seriously the notion that (even in war) we can make the wrong moral choices, and work from there.

As it is, with otherwise sensible people like LJD &lt;i&gt;spluttering&lt;/i&gt; at the suggestion that murdering old people and women and babies may not be an acceptable means to an end, no wonder this country&#039;s moral compass is out of whack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>How does the actions of the Germans and Japanese in WWII in any way compare to the U.S. liberating Iraq?</i></p>
<p>Very mysterious.  The reference is to the actions of the U.S. and UK, not to those of the Germans and Japanese.</p>
<p><i>How does the actions of the âTerroristsâ in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?</i></p>
<p>Let's see:  "intentional targeting of civilians."  THAT'S how they compare.  (How many lives do the terrorists imagine they saved "in the long run" by committing the 9/11 attacks?  Doubtless they have some back-of-the-envelope calculations they could show us.)</p>
<p>"Saving countless lives in the long run."  So incinerating women and children and babies is okay, if you can save American lives by doing so?</p>
<p>There have been leaders who openly espoused similar beliefs, but I didn't think that America did so, not openly.</p>
<p>Part of our problem with the current war is that <i>American don't believe they've ever really committed war crimes.</i>  We're the only nation on earth to be completely innocent.  What a coincidence.</p>
<p>If we could admit, "yes, it was wrong to murder thousands of civilians," then we could take seriously the notion that (even in war) we can make the wrong moral choices, and work from there.</p>
<p>As it is, with otherwise sensible people like LJD <i>spluttering</i> at the suggestion that murdering old people and women and babies may not be an acceptable means to an end, no wonder this country's moral compass is out of whack.</p>
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		<title>By: LJD</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47789</link>
		<dc:creator>LJD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47789</guid>
		<description>&quot;Do Americans really want to go there? Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki â¦.&quot;

Typical left wing, apples and oranges comparison. 

How does the actions of the Germans and Japanese in WWII in any way compare to the U.S. liberating Iraq? 

How does the actions of the &quot;Terrorists&quot; in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>"Do Americans really want to go there? Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki â¦."</p>
<p>Typical left wing, apples and oranges comparison. </p>
<p>How does the actions of the Germans and Japanese in WWII in any way compare to the U.S. liberating Iraq? </p>
<p>How does the actions of the "Terrorists" in any way compare to the actions taken by the U.S. to end a World War, saving countless lives in the long run?</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47781</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 15:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47781</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;There&#039;s no other name for the intentional targeting of civilians.&lt;/i&gt;

Do Americans &lt;i&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; want to go there?  Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki ....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>There's no other name for the intentional targeting of civilians.</i></p>
<p>Do Americans <i>really</i> want to go there?  Tokyo, Dresden, Hamburg, Hiroshima, Nagasaki ....</p>
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		<title>By: aqubaba</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_puts_civilian_toll_at_12000/comment-page-1/#comment-47763</link>
		<dc:creator>aqubaba</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jun 2005 12:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/10808#comment-47763</guid>
		<description>He who takes up the sword, so shall he also perish by it. If these &quot;martyrs&quot; think that they are going to get to &quot;heaven&quot; by blowing up innocent people in the name of politics and bloodlust, then they are in for a rude awakening. There is only one way, and the way of satan is not it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>He who takes up the sword, so shall he also perish by it. If these "martyrs" think that they are going to get to "heaven" by blowing up innocent people in the name of politics and bloodlust, then they are in for a rude awakening. There is only one way, and the way of satan is not it.</p>
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