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	<title>Comments on: Iraq War Attitudes</title>
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		<title>By: Dark One</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-114625</link>
		<dc:creator>Dark One</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 01 Mar 2007 16:41:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-114625</guid>
		<description>What if Iraq was the United States in 1964?
February 1, 1964, at the height of segregation in the United States, the British send a military force taking control of the south of the United States deploying forces across Alabama, Tennessee Mississippi, Louisiana and Florida. 

Following repeated warnings voiced in the United Nations and through media outlets, the British rally the support of Spain to create a &quot;coalition of the willing&quot; to oust the administration of President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was seen as directly responsible for not fully supporting legislation to implement a Civil Rights Act, in strict violation of the Magna Carta. Visit www.darkmatterpolitics.com for the full story!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What if Iraq was the United States in 1964?<br />
February 1, 1964, at the height of segregation in the United States, the British send a military force taking control of the south of the United States deploying forces across Alabama, Tennessee Mississippi, Louisiana and Florida. </p>
<p>Following repeated warnings voiced in the United Nations and through media outlets, the British rally the support of Spain to create a "coalition of the willing" to oust the administration of President Lyndon B. Johnson, who was seen as directly responsible for not fully supporting legislation to implement a Civil Rights Act, in strict violation of the Magna Carta. Visit <a href="http://www.darkmatterpolitics.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.darkmatterpolitics.com</a> for the full story!</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-114099</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:36:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-114099</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;POS was responsible for the “Harry and Louise” ad in the early 90’s that scuttled Clinton’s health insurance proposals.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

POS doesn&#039;t produce television ads.  Maybe they focus grouped them?

&lt;blockquote&gt;In 2001, it was charged with violating Virginia’s polling disclosure laws, and it has also been accused of using push polls to influence elections.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Charged and accused?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>POS was responsible for the “Harry and Louise” ad in the early 90&rsquo;s that scuttled Clinton&rsquo;s health insurance proposals.</p></blockquote>
<p>POS doesn't produce television ads.  Maybe they focus grouped them?</p>
<blockquote><p>In 2001, it was charged with violating Virginia&rsquo;s polling disclosure laws, and it has also been accused of using push polls to influence elections.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Charged and accused?</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Denton</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-114096</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Denton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 22:14:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-114096</guid>
		<description>The wording on his analysis is: &lt;blockquote&gt;So we return to the irony. Despite question wording that seems extreme compared to the other pollsters here, POS got at most a 5 point increase in support for keeping troops in Iraq until the country is stable. And the POS question produced very little difference from the average results for immediate or timed withdrawal. So critics who have jumped on the question wording bandwagon may be right about the wording, but they are substantially wrong about the effect. 

One of the most annoying aspects of question wording effects is that sometimes they are large when you don&#039;t expect it, and sometimes they are small even when you are sure they should be large. 

It is similarly ironic that those who delighted in the POS results were oblivious to the fact that there was not really any new news here. Apparently other pollsters from the &quot;drive-by media&quot; and elsewhere had been reporting substantially the same results for a while now. 

Finally, the results of this question are: 49% withdraw immediately or by a deadline, and 50% stay until Iraq is stable. I&#039;d say a 49-50 split isn&#039;t a strong indication of overwhelming support for either side. (There are other questions in the survey that address different issues-- some are more supportive of the war and some are less. Towards the high end is &quot;I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security for its people&quot; 57% agree. But also: &quot;Iraq will never become a stable democracy&quot;, 60% agree. Picking which results you like while ignoring the ones you don&#039;t may be good politics but it is bad polling analysis.) &lt;/blockquote&gt;
An online critique of POS states: &quot;the largest Republican polling firm. POS was responsible for the &quot;Harry and Louise&quot; ad in the early 90&#039;s that scuttled Clinton&#039;s health insurance proposals. In 2001, it was charged with violating Virginia&#039;s polling disclosure laws, and it has also been accused of using push polls to influence elections.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The wording on his analysis is:<br />
<blockquote>So we return to the irony. Despite question wording that seems extreme compared to the other pollsters here, POS got at most a 5 point increase in support for keeping troops in Iraq until the country is stable. And the POS question produced very little difference from the average results for immediate or timed withdrawal. So critics who have jumped on the question wording bandwagon may be right about the wording, but they are substantially wrong about the effect. </p>
<p>One of the most annoying aspects of question wording effects is that sometimes they are large when you don't expect it, and sometimes they are small even when you are sure they should be large. </p>
<p>It is similarly ironic that those who delighted in the POS results were oblivious to the fact that there was not really any new news here. Apparently other pollsters from the "drive-by media" and elsewhere had been reporting substantially the same results for a while now. </p>
<p>Finally, the results of this question are: 49% withdraw immediately or by a deadline, and 50% stay until Iraq is stable. I'd say a 49-50 split isn't a strong indication of overwhelming support for either side. (There are other questions in the survey that address different issues-- some are more supportive of the war and some are less. Towards the high end is "I support finishing the job in Iraq, that is, keeping the troops there until the Iraqi government can maintain control and provide security for its people" 57% agree. But also: "Iraq will never become a stable democracy", 60% agree. Picking which results you like while ignoring the ones you don't may be good politics but it is bad polling analysis.) </p></blockquote>
<p>An online critique of POS states: "the largest Republican polling firm. POS was responsible for the "Harry and Louise" ad in the early 90's that scuttled Clinton's health insurance proposals. In 2001, it was charged with violating Virginia's polling disclosure laws, and it has also been accused of using push polls to influence elections."</p>
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		<title>By: James Joyner</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-114041</link>
		<dc:creator>James Joyner</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 24 Feb 2007 00:05:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-114041</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Public Opinion Strategies, a Republican PR firm,&lt;/em&gt;

It&#039;s not a PR firm.  They do polling (mostly) and political strategy.  This particular poll was &lt;em&gt;commissioned&lt;/em&gt; by a PR firm.

As to bias questions, University of Wisconsin, Madison political scientist &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.pollster.com/charles_franklin/polling_on_iraq_sometimes_the.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Charles Franklin&lt;/a&gt; addresses those charges pretty well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Public Opinion Strategies, a Republican PR firm,</em></p>
<p>It's not a PR firm.  They do polling (mostly) and political strategy.  This particular poll was <em>commissioned</em> by a PR firm.</p>
<p>As to bias questions, University of Wisconsin, Madison political scientist <a href="http://www.pollster.com/charles_franklin/polling_on_iraq_sometimes_the.php" rel="nofollow">Charles Franklin</a> addresses those charges pretty well.</p>
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		<title>By: Gary Denton</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-114033</link>
		<dc:creator>Gary Denton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 22:44:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-114033</guid>
		<description>Public Opinion Strategies, a Republican PR firm, ran a poll against a probable skewed sample where &lt;em&gt;all the choices &lt;/em&gt;were Republican talking points.  It is all the Right Media Machine can talk about.  The poll, now the bias, of course.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Public Opinion Strategies, a Republican PR firm, ran a poll against a probable skewed sample where <em>all the choices </em>were Republican talking points.  It is all the Right Media Machine can talk about.  The poll, now the bias, of course.</p>
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		<title>By: Pollster</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113941</link>
		<dc:creator>Pollster</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Feb 2007 04:49:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113941</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Polling on Iraq: Sometimes the wording doesn&#039;t matter...&lt;/strong&gt;

 Polling on the Iraq war inevitably become entangled with the politics of the war, with partisans seizing on results that support their preferences. This was vividly demonstrated this week by a Public Opinion Strategies (POS) poll conducted for The......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Polling on Iraq: Sometimes the wording doesn't matter...</strong></p>
<p> Polling on the Iraq war inevitably become entangled with the politics of the war, with partisans seizing on results that support their preferences. This was vividly demonstrated this week by a Public Opinion Strategies (POS) poll conducted for The......</p>
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		<title>By: FreeSpeech.com &#187; Blog Archives &#187; The Dignified Rant: Americans Still Want to Win</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113779</link>
		<dc:creator>FreeSpeech.com &#187; Blog Archives &#187; The Dignified Rant: Americans Still Want to Win</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:59:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113779</guid>
		<description>[...] Even if people (wrongly) think we are doing poorly in Iraq, most Americans want to win in Iraq and believe it is important to win: 57% believe “The Iraq War is a key part of the global war on terrorism.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Even if people (wrongly) think we are doing poorly in Iraq, most Americans want to win in Iraq and believe it is important to win: 57% believe “The Iraq War is a key part of the global war on terrorism.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113772</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 Feb 2007 03:22:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113772</guid>
		<description>I wrote a comment about how blatantly leading the poll was, but thought better of it, perhaps out of respect for Mrs. JJ.

&lt;a href=&quot;http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/02/gop_pollster_sa.php&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Greg Sargent seems to&#039;ve found a Repub pollster who agrees with me&lt;/a&gt;, however, so I&#039;ll just link him.

I&#039;m sure that, as propaganda, the poll was a great success &amp; just what the client paid for.  C&#039;est la guerre, no pun intended.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I wrote a comment about how blatantly leading the poll was, but thought better of it, perhaps out of respect for Mrs. JJ.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/horsesmouth/2007/02/gop_pollster_sa.php" rel="nofollow">Greg Sargent seems to've found a Repub pollster who agrees with me</a>, however, so I'll just link him.</p>
<p>I'm sure that, as propaganda, the poll was a great success &amp; just what the client paid for.  C'est la guerre, no pun intended.</p>
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		<title>By: The No-Brain Zone</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113746</link>
		<dc:creator>The No-Brain Zone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 23:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113746</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Interesting poll results...will it ever make the MSM?...&lt;/strong&gt;

...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Interesting poll results...will it ever make the MSM?...</strong></p>
<p>...</p>
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		<title>By: Stu</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113738</link>
		<dc:creator>Stu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 22:29:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113738</guid>
		<description>Shorter POS poll--George Bush: Great President, or the Greatest President?

Heckuva straw grasp, guys.  Don&#039;t think it&#039;s gonna work, but I give you Bush dead-enders credit for the sheer tenacity with which you clutch your illusions.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shorter POS poll--George Bush: Great President, or the Greatest President?</p>
<p>Heckuva straw grasp, guys.  Don't think it's gonna work, but I give you Bush dead-enders credit for the sheer tenacity with which you clutch your illusions.</p>
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		<title>By: Violent Peace Activists&#8212; Irony in its finest form at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-2/#comment-113732</link>
		<dc:creator>Violent Peace Activists&#8212; Irony in its finest form at Conservative Times--Republican GOP news source.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113732</guid>
		<description>[...] (Hat Tip to OTB) Contrary to the rhetoric we hear from the left and our Democratic politicians, the new polls and surveys show that &#8220;the majority&#8221; of American people understand that we must succeed in Iraq. Here are some pretty interesting numbers, though, given those and other indications** that the survey isn’t biased toward President Bush: * 57% believe “The Iraq War is a key part of the global war on terrorism.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] (Hat Tip to OTB) Contrary to the rhetoric we hear from the left and our Democratic politicians, the new polls and surveys show that &#8220;the majority&#8221; of American people understand that we must succeed in Iraq. Here are some pretty interesting numbers, though, given those and other indications** that the survey isn&rsquo;t biased toward President Bush: * 57% believe “The Iraq War is a key part of the global war on terrorism.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Wayne</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-1/#comment-113731</link>
		<dc:creator>Wayne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 21:31:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113731</guid>
		<description>Here is a reply for those who use the “over 3000 military deaths” as proof that we are loosing the war.  Also shows the bias of MSM.


“The total military dead in the Iraq war between 2003 and this month stands at about 3,133. This is tragic, as are all deaths due to war, and we are facing a cowardly enemy unlike any other in our past that hides behind innocent citizens. Each death is blazoned in the headlines of newspapers and Internet sites. What is never compared is the number of military deaths during the Clinton administration: 1,245 in 1993; 1,109 in 1994; 1,055 in 1995; 1,008 in 1996. That&#039;s 4,417 deaths in peacetime but, of course, who&#039;s counting?” 


http://siadapp.dior.whs.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates1.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a reply for those who use the “over 3000 military deaths” as proof that we are loosing the war.  Also shows the bias of MSM.</p>
<p>“The total military dead in the Iraq war between 2003 and this month stands at about 3,133. This is tragic, as are all deaths due to war, and we are facing a cowardly enemy unlike any other in our past that hides behind innocent citizens. Each death is blazoned in the headlines of newspapers and Internet sites. What is never compared is the number of military deaths during the Clinton administration: 1,245 in 1993; 1,109 in 1994; 1,055 in 1995; 1,008 in 1996. That's 4,417 deaths in peacetime but, of course, who's counting?” </p>
<p><a href="http://siadapp.dior.whs.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates1.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://siadapp.dior.whs.mil/personnel/CASUALTY/Death_Rates1.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; So Much For That &#8220;Mandate&#8221;, Eh?</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-1/#comment-113718</link>
		<dc:creator>Anti-Idiotarian Rottweiler &#187; Blog Archive &#187; So Much For That &#8220;Mandate&#8221;, Eh?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:27:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113718</guid>
		<description>[...] Not that it&#8217;ll stop the Surrendercrats from claiming that Election &#8216;06 was a mandate for them to surrender to terrorists as quickly as possible, but we find the data in this survey quite &#8212; enlightening. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Not that it&#8217;ll stop the Surrendercrats from claiming that Election &#8216;06 was a mandate for them to surrender to terrorists as quickly as possible, but we find the data in this survey quite &#8212; enlightening. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ace of Spades HQ</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-1/#comment-113711</link>
		<dc:creator>Ace of Spades HQ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 19:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113711</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Shock: Americans Don&#039;t Share Democrats&#039; Enthusiasm For Losing Wars...&lt;/strong&gt;

There are a lot of Americans who favor a defeat in Iraq simply to deal America a bloody &quot;teachable moment&quot; and repudiate a president they don&#039;t like. Alas, for the Democrats, such people do not yet constitute an actual majority:......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Shock: Americans Don't Share Democrats' Enthusiasm For Losing Wars...</strong></p>
<p>There are a lot of Americans who favor a defeat in Iraq simply to deal America a bloody "teachable moment" and repudiate a president they don't like. Alas, for the Democrats, such people do not yet constitute an actual majority:......</p>
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		<title>By: nick</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/iraq_war_attitudes/comment-page-1/#comment-113686</link>
		<dc:creator>nick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 21 Feb 2007 17:08:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2007/02/iraq_war_attitudes/#comment-113686</guid>
		<description>Are these the same &quot;people&quot;  not voters 
who thought WMD was  found?

you morons are amazing!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Are these the same "people"  not voters<br />
who thought WMD was  found?</p>
<p>you morons are amazing!</p>
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