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	<title>Comments on: Ireland Rejects Treaty of Lisbon</title>
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		<title>By: Steve in England</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-425085</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve in England</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Jun 2008 20:17:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/2008/06/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/#comment-425085</guid>
		<description>Only 5 days after the wonderful, common sense- filled Irish people voted &quot;no&quot; to this ghastly document, it was railroaded through the House of Lords and given the Royal Assent by Queen Elizabeth II for the UK.   

In theory, as the Irish people (so far the ONLY nation in 27-member E.U. to have a vote) rejected the Treaty, it SHOULD be dead. But, Oh no! 

That&#039;s NOT the way things work in the E.U. - look at it&#039;s history. Let&#039;s face it folks, the European Union is the Soviet Union by a new name, and even Mikhael Gorbachev thinks so. And Vladimir Bukovsky - he lived it too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Only 5 days after the wonderful, common sense- filled Irish people voted "no" to this ghastly document, it was railroaded through the House of Lords and given the Royal Assent by Queen Elizabeth II for the UK.   </p>
<p>In theory, as the Irish people (so far the ONLY nation in 27-member E.U. to have a vote) rejected the Treaty, it SHOULD be dead. But, Oh no! </p>
<p>That's NOT the way things work in the E.U. - look at it's history. Let's face it folks, the European Union is the Soviet Union by a new name, and even Mikhael Gorbachev thinks so. And Vladimir Bukovsky - he lived it too.</p>
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		<title>By: Mark Daunt</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-414413</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark Daunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 16 Jun 2008 12:02:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>i would just like to clear up a few things that have been commented on. firstly Ireland had a referendum because for the lisbon treaty to become law in ireland the irish constitution would have to be amended, any amendmant to the constitution requires a referundum.
The main reasons why people voted no is because they did not understand the document and it was quite clear that nobody did (including the government), we simple knew it would reduce irelands power within the union while increasing the unions power over ireland.
the reason most people who voted yes did so is because they did what they were told to do.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i would just like to clear up a few things that have been commented on. firstly Ireland had a referendum because for the lisbon treaty to become law in ireland the irish constitution would have to be amended, any amendmant to the constitution requires a referundum.<br />
The main reasons why people voted no is because they did not understand the document and it was quite clear that nobody did (including the government), we simple knew it would reduce irelands power within the union while increasing the unions power over ireland.<br />
the reason most people who voted yes did so is because they did what they were told to do.</p>
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		<title>By: William d'Inger</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-413325</link>
		<dc:creator>William d'Inger</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Jun 2008 15:46:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I think that was one of the last gasps of freedom in Europe. The ruling elites are creating a Soviet Union-style dictatorship. Once they have seized the reigns of power, Mother Europa will micro-manage every aspect of life with Orwellian intensity.

I wouldn&#039;t be worried about it except for the fact that American europhiles (liberal Democrats) will be exceedingly jealous if they can&#039;t enforce their Benevolence on us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think that was one of the last gasps of freedom in Europe. The ruling elites are creating a Soviet Union-style dictatorship. Once they have seized the reigns of power, Mother Europa will micro-manage every aspect of life with Orwellian intensity.</p>
<p>I wouldn't be worried about it except for the fact that American europhiles (liberal Democrats) will be exceedingly jealous if they can't enforce their Benevolence on us.</p>
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		<title>By: teqjack</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-411102</link>
		<dc:creator>teqjack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Jun 2008 01:57:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Note that this was basically the &lt;em&gt;second&lt;/em&gt; attempt. After the French and Dutch &quot;NO&quot; votes, the populaces were disenfranchised. Ireland was the only country to allow its people to votein this second try. Third time around, I have no doubt they too will be kept from voting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Note that this was basically the <em>second</em> attempt. After the French and Dutch "NO" votes, the populaces were disenfranchised. Ireland was the only country to allow its people to votein this second try. Third time around, I have no doubt they too will be kept from voting.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410799</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:19:16 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
If you go to the websites of the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal--at least--the story receives &quot;front page&quot; treatment.
&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I certainly think it deserves front page treatment.  Your explanation may well be correct.  However, I know of quite some number of big city newspapers where this story would never get prominent treatment (although local high school basketball coverage would).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
If you go to the websites of the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal--at least--the story receives "front page" treatment.
</p></blockquote>
<p>I certainly think it deserves front page treatment.  Your explanation may well be correct.  However, I know of quite some number of big city newspapers where this story would never get prominent treatment (although local high school basketball coverage would).</p>
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		<title>By: Nicole</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410752</link>
		<dc:creator>Nicole</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 22:00:13 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The EU continues its eastward expansion, which I believe mostly good, partly by holding out the economic carrots of membership but partly, at least, by touting its “shared Western values.” &lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m in agreement with James that the eastward expansion of the union has been a huge net positive, so it&#039;s worth noting that the Lisbon rejection (which I also have mixed feelings about) may &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2008/06/d955ec77-4c7e-4dc1-86a3-6f25610a3dd3.html&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;endanger future enlargement rounds: &lt;/a&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;&quot;I think that globally, an Irish &#039;no&#039; would mean that the European Union would no longer be in a position to pursue further its policy of enlargement.... For institutional reasons in the first place, because the Treaty of Nice... is designed for up to 28 [member states]. After that, we&#039;ll be in &#039;no man&#039;s land.&#039;&quot;

Of the current candidates, only Croatia would be guaranteed entry under existing rules.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

That would be very unfortunate, both for the countries in the Balkans that are standing in line behind Croatia, and for former Soviet states like Ukraine whose membership is much further away.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The EU continues its eastward expansion, which I believe mostly good, partly by holding out the economic carrots of membership but partly, at least, by touting its “shared Western values.” </p></blockquote>
<p>I'm in agreement with James that the eastward expansion of the union has been a huge net positive, so it's worth noting that the Lisbon rejection (which I also have mixed feelings about) may <a href="http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2008/06/d955ec77-4c7e-4dc1-86a3-6f25610a3dd3.html" rel="nofollow">endanger future enlargement rounds: </a></p>
<blockquote><p>"I think that globally, an Irish 'no' would mean that the European Union would no longer be in a position to pursue further its policy of enlargement.... For institutional reasons in the first place, because the Treaty of Nice... is designed for up to 28 [member states]. After that, we'll be in 'no man's land.'"</p>
<p>Of the current candidates, only Croatia would be guaranteed entry under existing rules.</p></blockquote>
<p>That would be very unfortunate, both for the countries in the Balkans that are standing in line behind Croatia, and for former Soviet states like Ukraine whose membership is much further away.</p>
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		<title>By: Triumph</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410686</link>
		<dc:creator>Triumph</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 21:24:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;It’s received precious little notice here in the States&lt;/blockquote&gt;

The reason that it is not on the front pages of today&#039;s papers is that the final count wasn&#039;t announced early enough for this morning&#039;s editions.

If you go to the websites of the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal--at least--the story receives &quot;front page&quot; treatment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>It&rsquo;s received precious little notice here in the States</p></blockquote>
<p>The reason that it is not on the front pages of today's papers is that the final count wasn't announced early enough for this morning's editions.</p>
<p>If you go to the websites of the NYTimes and the Wall Street Journal--at least--the story receives "front page" treatment.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave Schuler</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410602</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Schuler</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:42:48 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No, I don&#039;t, yaj.  Most of my European friends are considerably more tolerant of government than Americans typically are.  What I&#039;ve been given to understand is that treaty opponents made their case on the basis of things like abortion and Irish neutrality (&#147;distinctive institutions&#148;) rather than opposition to centralized government.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, I don't, yaj.  Most of my European friends are considerably more tolerant of government than Americans typically are.  What I've been given to understand is that treaty opponents made their case on the basis of things like abortion and Irish neutrality (&#8220;distinctive institutions&#8221;) rather than opposition to centralized government.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick T. McGuire</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410600</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick T. McGuire</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:41:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;With generous EU grants Ireland has been transformed from one of Europe’s poorest countries to one of the most prosperous countries in the world.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Ireland&#039;s economic growth had a lot more to do with lowering of their taxes and creating a much more business friendly environment for foreign businesses that moved there.

Since when did massive government bureaucracies ever create prosperity?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>With generous EU grants Ireland has been transformed from one of Europe&rsquo;s poorest countries to one of the most prosperous countries in the world.</p></blockquote>
<p>Ireland's economic growth had a lot more to do with lowering of their taxes and creating a much more business friendly environment for foreign businesses that moved there.</p>
<p>Since when did massive government bureaucracies ever create prosperity?</p>
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		<title>By: yetanotherjohn</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/ireland_rejects_treaty_of_lisbon/comment-page-1/#comment-410591</link>
		<dc:creator>yetanotherjohn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 20:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Rejection of the treaty was probably due to some combination of a reassertion of Ireland’s pride in its own distinctive institutions and the failure of proponents of the treaty to produce a convincing plain language explanation of the benefits of approving the treaty.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&lt;blockquote&gt;The reason that Ireland was the only country to vote the treaty down was that Ireland was the only country to hold a popular vote on the matter. The probability that a direct popular vote in all 27 EU countries would have resulted in the treaty being approved is, was, and always has been zero. Indeed, the only way the measure proceeded as far as it did was that the other EU countries’ governments avoided a popular vote.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You don&#039;t think that there might be a few voters who don&#039;t want to turn their lives over to unelected bureaucrats? A similar measure in the US that turned over power to unelected and self perpetuating bureaucrats would fail. Not because of &#039;pride in distinctive institutions&#039; or &#039;failure to explain the benefits&#039; but because of common sense.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Rejection of the treaty was probably due to some combination of a reassertion of Ireland&rsquo;s pride in its own distinctive institutions and the failure of proponents of the treaty to produce a convincing plain language explanation of the benefits of approving the treaty.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote><p>The reason that Ireland was the only country to vote the treaty down was that Ireland was the only country to hold a popular vote on the matter. The probability that a direct popular vote in all 27 EU countries would have resulted in the treaty being approved is, was, and always has been zero. Indeed, the only way the measure proceeded as far as it did was that the other EU countries&rsquo; governments avoided a popular vote.</p></blockquote>
<p>You don't think that there might be a few voters who don't want to turn their lives over to unelected bureaucrats? A similar measure in the US that turned over power to unelected and self perpetuating bureaucrats would fail. Not because of 'pride in distinctive institutions' or 'failure to explain the benefits' but because of common sense.</p>
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