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	<title>Comments on: Is Algebra Worthless?</title>
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		<title>By: Ian</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74624</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Feb 2006 01:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74624</guid>
		<description>Leonidas wrote: &quot;I&#8217;m not always a big fan of Cohen&#8217;s. He takes a lot of cheap shots at Bush. But he&#8217;s on the money here. Numbers aren&#8217;t what matters. Faith is what matters. We had a number-based president recently. He left us with a recession and a big terrorist attack. Now we&#8217;ve got a faith-based president and the economy is strong and our nation is safe. That says all you need to do about the &#8220;importance&#8221; of numbers.&quot; Stuff&#039;n nonsence. Oh, I&#039;m sure that Cohen is critical of Bush (the President says and does so much that is just plain un-American that it&#039;s a wonder he doesn&#039;t have more critics). But while faith does indeed matter, institutions of higher learning cannot give this to you. Schools of higher learning exist to educate the mind. And even most seminaries require one to have graduated high school. While I&#039;m no fan of math, and can probably be considered an innumerate, I believe it is an important aspect of a good education; I wish that I had focused more time and thought to it when I was in school.

As for the rest of your remarks. . .  President Clinton may have left us with a recession (if he did, I wasn&#039;t aware of it, and I never liked the man), but his presidency was left a recession by our current president&#039;s father (remember all those massive layoffs that took place just as Clinton entered office?).  Moreover, if one&#039;s fruits are how one is known, then our current president only pretends to faith. His actions are certainly louder than his words. He prefers to seek loopholes in the law, concerning the torture of prisoners, rather than to be faithful to Christ and not mistreat his enemies. He actively seeks to discover who leeks information about his administration (information which is not critical to national security) with a view to firing and prosecuting them, rather than follow Christ in turning the other cheek and blessing those who curse him. (Examples could go on.) Oh, and the major terrorist attack that Clinton left us with? That happened on our current &quot;faith-based&quot; president&#039;s watch! For the life of me, I can&#039;t see how that can be blamed on Clinton any more than the release of the Iranian hostages, during the early days of President Reagan&#039;s term, can be credited to President Carter.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Leonidas wrote: "I&#8217;m not always a big fan of Cohen&#8217;s. He takes a lot of cheap shots at Bush. But he&#8217;s on the money here. Numbers aren&#8217;t what matters. Faith is what matters. We had a number-based president recently. He left us with a recession and a big terrorist attack. Now we&#8217;ve got a faith-based president and the economy is strong and our nation is safe. That says all you need to do about the &#8220;importance&#8221; of numbers." Stuff'n nonsence. Oh, I'm sure that Cohen is critical of Bush (the President says and does so much that is just plain un-American that it's a wonder he doesn't have more critics). But while faith does indeed matter, institutions of higher learning cannot give this to you. Schools of higher learning exist to educate the mind. And even most seminaries require one to have graduated high school. While I'm no fan of math, and can probably be considered an innumerate, I believe it is an important aspect of a good education; I wish that I had focused more time and thought to it when I was in school.</p>
<p>As for the rest of your remarks. . .  President Clinton may have left us with a recession (if he did, I wasn't aware of it, and I never liked the man), but his presidency was left a recession by our current president's father (remember all those massive layoffs that took place just as Clinton entered office?).  Moreover, if one's fruits are how one is known, then our current president only pretends to faith. His actions are certainly louder than his words. He prefers to seek loopholes in the law, concerning the torture of prisoners, rather than to be faithful to Christ and not mistreat his enemies. He actively seeks to discover who leeks information about his administration (information which is not critical to national security) with a view to firing and prosecuting them, rather than follow Christ in turning the other cheek and blessing those who curse him. (Examples could go on.) Oh, and the major terrorist attack that Clinton left us with? That happened on our current "faith-based" president's watch! For the life of me, I can't see how that can be blamed on Clinton any more than the release of the Iranian hostages, during the early days of President Reagan's term, can be credited to President Carter.</p>
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		<title>By: Right Wing News</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74182</link>
		<dc:creator>Right Wing News</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Feb 2006 08:46:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74182</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Did FEMA Help Katrina Victims Too Quickly? By Cassandra...&lt;/strong&gt;

After months of accusations FEMA wasn&#039;t helping Katrina victims quickly enough, CNN is horrified to learn the federal government may......</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Did FEMA Help Katrina Victims Too Quickly? By Cassandra...</strong></p>
<p>After months of accusations FEMA wasn't helping Katrina victims quickly enough, CNN is horrified to learn the federal government may......</p>
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		<title>By: Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74137</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:35:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74137</guid>
		<description>And Leonidas, I think a nation needs both faith and reason. It is not one or the other that poses a problem, but an imbalance between the two.

My brother has a PhD in Mathematics. He&#039;s undoubtedly a very smart guy, but I&#039;ve never seen anyone so willing to utterly dismiss &quot;inconvenient&quot; facts, nor to focus on individual trees to the exclusion of the forest.

I work with numbers and at least in social science or decision-making, they aren&#039;t meant to be used out of their proper context. One still has to apply a bit of critical judgment when working with statistics. I have no patience with people who want what I like to call a single &quot;Golden Number&quot; (usually an average, for Pete&#039;s sake) that somehow explains everything. It doesn&#039;t exist.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And Leonidas, I think a nation needs both faith and reason. It is not one or the other that poses a problem, but an imbalance between the two.</p>
<p>My brother has a PhD in Mathematics. He's undoubtedly a very smart guy, but I've never seen anyone so willing to utterly dismiss "inconvenient" facts, nor to focus on individual trees to the exclusion of the forest.</p>
<p>I work with numbers and at least in social science or decision-making, they aren't meant to be used out of their proper context. One still has to apply a bit of critical judgment when working with statistics. I have no patience with people who want what I like to call a single "Golden Number" (usually an average, for Pete's sake) that somehow explains everything. It doesn't exist.</p>
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		<title>By: Cassandra</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74136</link>
		<dc:creator>Cassandra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 15:25:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74136</guid>
		<description>When I went back to school at 30 after having spent 10 years raising my two sons, the first thing I realized was that in order to be a fully-thinking human being I needed to round myself out.

Therefore, instead of majoring in my strong area (literature, or the humanities) I loaded up on math, statistics, and economics courses.

What I gained was invaluable: an entirely different way of thinking and of looking at the world. And one which, Nancy Hopkins aside, tends not to be the default mode for many women.

I think Richard Cohen may have inadvertently shown us what is wrong with most of his columns. &lt;i&gt;The man never learned more than one mode of thinking&lt;/i&gt;, and this severely limits both his objectivity and his ability to examine many of the issues of the day.

But cocooned in his smug little world as he is, he will probably never be able to see that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I went back to school at 30 after having spent 10 years raising my two sons, the first thing I realized was that in order to be a fully-thinking human being I needed to round myself out.</p>
<p>Therefore, instead of majoring in my strong area (literature, or the humanities) I loaded up on math, statistics, and economics courses.</p>
<p>What I gained was invaluable: an entirely different way of thinking and of looking at the world. And one which, Nancy Hopkins aside, tends not to be the default mode for many women.</p>
<p>I think Richard Cohen may have inadvertently shown us what is wrong with most of his columns. <i>The man never learned more than one mode of thinking</i>, and this severely limits both his objectivity and his ability to examine many of the issues of the day.</p>
<p>But cocooned in his smug little world as he is, he will probably never be able to see that.</p>
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		<title>By: Sam</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74129</link>
		<dc:creator>Sam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Feb 2006 13:16:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74129</guid>
		<description>I think the important thing to take away from high school algebra is basic symbolic reasoning and a few basic algebraic tools.  Additional algebraic tools are important for later mathematics and science but I suspect most people aren&#039;t going to often use the quadratic formula or sines in their daily lives much.

I do worry that someone who can not pass algebra perhaps won&#039;t be able to compute or estimate whether paying an extra $5000 for a hybrid vehicle makes financial sense if it gets 20% better mileage, gas stays around $2.50/gallon, they drive 12,000 miles a year, and they expect to keep the vehicle for 5 years.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the important thing to take away from high school algebra is basic symbolic reasoning and a few basic algebraic tools.  Additional algebraic tools are important for later mathematics and science but I suspect most people aren't going to often use the quadratic formula or sines in their daily lives much.</p>
<p>I do worry that someone who can not pass algebra perhaps won't be able to compute or estimate whether paying an extra $5000 for a hybrid vehicle makes financial sense if it gets 20% better mileage, gas stays around $2.50/gallon, they drive 12,000 miles a year, and they expect to keep the vehicle for 5 years.</p>
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		<title>By: Someone actually wrote this? at business&#124;bytes&#124;genes&#124;molecules</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74121</link>
		<dc:creator>Someone actually wrote this? at business&#124;bytes&#124;genes&#124;molecules</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 23:50:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74121</guid>
		<description>[...] Not having been educated in the US, I can&#8217;t comment to the core reasons with any sense of certainty. However, If I had to guess, the reason is likely to be a combination of society undervaluing scientific and mathematical knowledge (from what I see sometimes ridiculing it) and flaws in the way mathematics and science are taught. For a country that has produced some of the finest scientific minds, and has a wonderful college system, the diminishing quality of science education at the school level is somewhat disconcerting   Further Reading: The algebra haters club Is algebra worthless? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Not having been educated in the US, I can&#8217;t comment to the core reasons with any sense of certainty. However, If I had to guess, the reason is likely to be a combination of society undervaluing scientific and mathematical knowledge (from what I see sometimes ridiculing it) and flaws in the way mathematics and science are taught. For a country that has produced some of the finest scientific minds, and has a wonderful college system, the diminishing quality of science education at the school level is somewhat disconcerting   Further Reading: The algebra haters club Is algebra worthless? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: john</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74096</link>
		<dc:creator>john</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 14:51:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74096</guid>
		<description>Some one has already said it, but I will go ahead and beat the dead horse.  

As an engineer, when I look at headlines or articles in newspapers, I cringe at the complete ignorance of math or statistical reasoning, let alone probability risk assessment.  Its always the same: 

if the problem is small i.e. 5000 people a year die of disease X, then they quote the number, (never mind that because of sample size the probability in any given year of dying maybe .000001%).  

Reporting that special interest group K said that crime R occurs X times every Y seconds, even thought simple math would show that to be an impossibly large number.

Not understanding that cutting the RATE of growth, is not the same as cutting the funding.  

Not understanding, that when an engineer says that chemical X could increase the mortality rate by one addition death over the next 20 years, he is not saying that someone will die because of chemical X.  

That for most engineers, unless an idea violates a fundamental law of the universe, the idea is possible, hence, when a reporter asks is it possible for this nuclear plant to meltdown?, and the engineer responds there is a one in 18.4 million chance per operating hour  the head line should not read ENGINEER SAYS PLANT WILL MELTDOWN!!!!  

As for Cohen, Im exactly the opposite, I have spell check and grammar check, why learn anything as useless as English, hell 80% of the people I work with, English isnt even their primary language.  Whats more, I have the ability to check the black box calculator, question the answer, and ensure that the answer makes sense.  Unless reporters have the mental tools to rationally question the results, they are just passing along and printing whats given to them.  That truly is work for a computer.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some one has already said it, but I will go ahead and beat the dead horse.  </p>
<p>As an engineer, when I look at headlines or articles in newspapers, I cringe at the complete ignorance of math or statistical reasoning, let alone probability risk assessment.  Its always the same: </p>
<p>if the problem is small i.e. 5000 people a year die of disease X, then they quote the number, (never mind that because of sample size the probability in any given year of dying maybe .000001%).  </p>
<p>Reporting that special interest group K said that crime R occurs X times every Y seconds, even thought simple math would show that to be an impossibly large number.</p>
<p>Not understanding that cutting the RATE of growth, is not the same as cutting the funding.  </p>
<p>Not understanding, that when an engineer says that chemical X could increase the mortality rate by one addition death over the next 20 years, he is not saying that someone will die because of chemical X.  </p>
<p>That for most engineers, unless an idea violates a fundamental law of the universe, the idea is possible, hence, when a reporter asks is it possible for this nuclear plant to meltdown?, and the engineer responds there is a one in 18.4 million chance per operating hour  the head line should not read ENGINEER SAYS PLANT WILL MELTDOWN!!!!  </p>
<p>As for Cohen, Im exactly the opposite, I have spell check and grammar check, why learn anything as useless as English, hell 80% of the people I work with, English isnt even their primary language.  Whats more, I have the ability to check the black box calculator, question the answer, and ensure that the answer makes sense.  Unless reporters have the mental tools to rationally question the results, they are just passing along and printing whats given to them.  That truly is work for a computer.</p>
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		<title>By: Insults Unpunished &#187; Celebrating Innumeracy</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74093</link>
		<dc:creator>Insults Unpunished &#187; Celebrating Innumeracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 11:36:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74093</guid>
		<description>[...] Cohen is  Is Algebra Worthless? Â» Outside The Beltway &#124; OTB Here&#8217;s the thing, Gabriela: You will never need to know algebra. I have never once used it and never once even rued that I could not use it. You will never need to know &#8212; never mind want to know &#8212; how many boys it will take to mow a lawn if one of them quits halfway and two more show up later &#8212; or something like that. Most of math can now be done by a computer or a calculator. On the other hand, no computer can write a column or even a thank-you note &#8212; or reason even a little bit. If, say, the school asked you for another year of English or, God forbid, history, so that you actually had to know something about your world, I would be on its side. But algebra? Please. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Cohen is  Is Algebra Worthless? Â» Outside The Beltway | OTB Here&#8217;s the thing, Gabriela: You will never need to know algebra. I have never once used it and never once even rued that I could not use it. You will never need to know &#8212; never mind want to know &#8212; how many boys it will take to mow a lawn if one of them quits halfway and two more show up later &#8212; or something like that. Most of math can now be done by a computer or a calculator. On the other hand, no computer can write a column or even a thank-you note &#8212; or reason even a little bit. If, say, the school asked you for another year of English or, God forbid, history, so that you actually had to know something about your world, I would be on its side. But algebra? Please. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PoliBlog: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts &#187; In Honor of Richard Cohen</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74056</link>
		<dc:creator>PoliBlog: A Rough Draft of my Thoughts &#187; In Honor of Richard Cohen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 03:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74056</guid>
		<description>[...] And to continue the &#8216;toon theme:  For the lowdown on Cohen&#8217;s WaPo piece today, surf over to OTB.  Filed under: Academia &#124; &#124;Send TrackBack [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] And to continue the &#8216;toon theme:  For the lowdown on Cohen&#8217;s WaPo piece today, surf over to OTB.  Filed under: Academia | |Send TrackBack [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Leonidas</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74052</link>
		<dc:creator>Leonidas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Feb 2006 03:06:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74052</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not always a big fan of Cohen&#039;s.  He takes a lot of cheap shots at Bush.  But he&#039;s on the money here.  Numbers aren&#039;t what matters.  Faith is what matters.  We had a number-based president recently.  He left us with a recession and a big terrorist attack.  Now we&#039;ve got a faith-based president and the economy is strong and our nation is safe.  That says all you need to do about the &quot;importance&quot; of numbers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I'm not always a big fan of Cohen's.  He takes a lot of cheap shots at Bush.  But he's on the money here.  Numbers aren't what matters.  Faith is what matters.  We had a number-based president recently.  He left us with a recession and a big terrorist attack.  Now we've got a faith-based president and the economy is strong and our nation is safe.  That says all you need to do about the "importance" of numbers.</p>
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		<title>By: Anderson</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74035</link>
		<dc:creator>Anderson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 23:24:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74035</guid>
		<description>Judging by &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13708&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;OTB&#039;s commenters&lt;/a&gt;, biology would be a good requirement also.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Judging by <a href="http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13708" rel="nofollow">OTB's commenters</a>, biology would be a good requirement also.</p>
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		<title>By: Deleted</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74022</link>
		<dc:creator>Deleted</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 22:32:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74022</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;No link back&lt;/strong&gt;

This is an article by Richard Cohen in the Washington Post. The gist of it is that he is replying to a young student that he, too, doesn&#039;t see a need for algebra to graduate:Here&#039;s the thing, Gabriela: You will...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>No link back</strong></p>
<p>This is an article by Richard Cohen in the Washington Post. The gist of it is that he is replying to a young student that he, too, doesn't see a need for algebra to graduate:Here's the thing, Gabriela: You will...</p>
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		<title>By: Scrutator</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74006</link>
		<dc:creator>Scrutator</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74006</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;a liberal I like...&lt;/strong&gt;

	For the most part, I&#8217;m pretty dismissive of the pundit class.  Most odious among them are the ones who still carry the torch for liberalism &#8212; Krugman, Herbet, Dionne, Oliphant, etc.  But there is one who has hit it out of the park with a r...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>a liberal I like...</strong></p>
<p>	For the most part, I&#8217;m pretty dismissive of the pundit class.  Most odious among them are the ones who still carry the torch for liberalism &#8212; Krugman, Herbet, Dionne, Oliphant, etc.  But there is one who has hit it out of the park with a r...</p>
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		<title>By: John Burgess</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-74005</link>
		<dc:creator>John Burgess</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 21:07:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-74005</guid>
		<description>My son is not as gifted as I was in math, but he still put up with his HS&#039;s courses in algebra, calculus, and trig, passing them all with decent grades.

In university, he decidedly not going down the maths/sciences route, which if is fine as his true talents lay elsewhere. But he was still smart enough to take a Statistics class to learn how to understand an increasingly important (and plotical) aspect of modern life.

Innumeracy is the bane of journalists--Google the term and go to the Amazon links, it&#039;s an entire field of publication. Reporters cannot accurately report that which they do not understand. And numbers, as Cohen often demonstrates, are far beyond the majority. As a result, we all lose through misrepresentation of reality, intentional or not.

Cohen&#039;s a jerk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My son is not as gifted as I was in math, but he still put up with his HS's courses in algebra, calculus, and trig, passing them all with decent grades.</p>
<p>In university, he decidedly not going down the maths/sciences route, which if is fine as his true talents lay elsewhere. But he was still smart enough to take a Statistics class to learn how to understand an increasingly important (and plotical) aspect of modern life.</p>
<p>Innumeracy is the bane of journalists--Google the term and go to the Amazon links, it's an entire field of publication. Reporters cannot accurately report that which they do not understand. And numbers, as Cohen often demonstrates, are far beyond the majority. As a result, we all lose through misrepresentation of reality, intentional or not.</p>
<p>Cohen's a jerk.</p>
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		<title>By: evolution</title>
		<link>http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/is_algebra_worthless/comment-page-1/#comment-73971</link>
		<dc:creator>evolution</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Feb 2006 19:23:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.outsidethebeltway.com/archives/13719#comment-73971</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;why do i have to take algebra?...&lt;/strong&gt;

Q: What do you call someone in math class doing the crossword and
fiddling with an iPod instead of paying attention?
A: A journalist.
Meet Richard Cohen of the Washington Post, who thinks kids shouldn&#8217;t have to take that darned old math. It&amp;#8217...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>why do i have to take algebra?...</strong></p>
<p>Q: What do you call someone in math class doing the crossword and<br />
fiddling with an iPod instead of paying attention?<br />
A: A journalist.<br />
Meet Richard Cohen of the Washington Post, who thinks kids shouldn&#8217;t have to take that darned old math. It&amp;#8217...</p>
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